All are welcome to join the fun.
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Apologies, didn't mean to re-open any wounds or anything. The detailed description was just meant to put emphasis on my point.Liriel wrote:Ayiyiyi~... please stop... I've relived that day far too often... please.... really.
Inappropriate or not, we'll see something similar on a t-shirt in Hot Topic within a year. Hooray for a cold and unfeeling marketplace.RadPal wrote:Though the second one about the beheadings, I just don't find that funny. I understand it's all in an attempt at fun and humor, but seriously. Two innocents were kidnapped and murdered in a gruesome way by masked terrorists, videotaped, and shown to the world (and their families). That one was just a tad inappropriate.
I never said that. I explicitly said something along the lines of I can't expect any moral person to NOT be horrified and dumbstruck. I was expounding upon the contemptable display of character and leadership.Melody wrote:So you would not be terrified and dumbstruck?TheGoobla wrote:Well, I think the problem here is that... well, he's the president. If he hears the country just got attacked, he's supposed to get his ass in gear! But instead... he sits there for several minutes more... completely terrified and dumbstruck.Melody wrote:I heard that in it, he argues that Bush is a bad president because he read a book to school children for seven minutes after he was told of the attack on the towers. I do not see the logic Moore uses, especially since I would have done the same thing as Bush in that situation.
I don't need to swim the Rio Bravo (why you americans call it Rio Grande is an enigma to me) to get to St. Louis; I have a passport AND the "laser" visa; what I need now are just three things:rkolter wrote:My client just hired fresh off-the-shelf electrical engineers at $50k apiece, plus overtime for hours over 40 in a week. They have less experience than you, and make your weekly salary by lunchtime on Monday. You really aught to swim that river and visit St. Louis.JexKerome wrote:Hey, it's pure unalduterated envy! He's a wet-behind-the-ears kid making as much as ME, an electronics engineer with a title in his hand! And I work more hours than him for the same pay, to boot...rkolter wrote: Grabmygoblin's only making around minimum wage if he's taking $200 home for a 40 hour week's work. No need to shred him.
Which means he actually MAKES MORE than me!!!!
Okay, claw-time is over!!! Where's my shotgun?!
But I'm fine with that too! I'm happy to see that Cory can take criticism in such a friendly manner. We head experiences with people... (how should I put it?...) ...more hostile than him. If he's going to use the advices, it's up to him, in the end.Liriel wrote:Well, in my humble defense of bCx, we've just had to put up with the antics longer is all (maybe it'll get to you all here, or maaaaaybe it won't, don't matter to me)... and frankly we're all a bit edgy and hostile over there, because well it IS a Top 100 List so we ALL think the other person sucks.
Alright. Fine. Maybe you'd have done the same thing. And maybe that's why I hope you never run for office. BUt did you actually read the whole page?Melody wrote:I looked at the video. It is a simplification. Bush did not "just sit there." He acted on a decision to stay and continue listening to the children reading. For a third time, I would have done the same thing.
>>> At 9:03 AM on 11 September 2001, the second airplane hit the South Tower of the World Trade Center. President Bush was in Florida, at the Emma T. Booker Elementary School, listening to children read. Chief of Staff Andrew Card came over and whispered in Bush's ear, "A second plane hit the second tower. America is under attack."
What did the Commander in Chief do? Nothing. He sat there. He sat for well over 5 minutes, doing nothing while 3,000 people were dying and the attacks were still in progress.
Not only did the leader of the free world sit as his country was attacked, the Secret Service also did nothing. Bush was appearing in public at a previously announced photo-op. He was a sitting duck. The attacks were ongoing at that point (planes had yet to hit the Pentagon or the field in Pennsylvania), and nobody knew how much more destruction was going to happen. Were there two, three, four, eight more planes hijacked and on their way to crash into prominent buildings? Was one headed for the school, where anyone who checked the President's public itinerary would know he was located? Were other terrorists planning to detonate dirty nukes? Were they going to release anthrax or smallpox or sarin? Was an assassination squad going to burst into the school and get Bush? Was a suicide bomber going to ram a truck full of explosives into that classroom?
During the midst of the attacks, any of these things could've happened. Yet there sits Bush, seemingly unconcerned. His Chief of Staff likewise doesn't think that America in flames warrants the President's immediate attention. And the Secret Service utterly fails to do its job by grabbing the President of the United States and getting him to safety. It's truly inexplicable.
And it's something the administration isn't too eager to trumpet. They haven't released footage of the President's (non)actions during this historic moment of American history. Until now, the only available footage had been a little film put together by Booker Elementary. [See it here.] The problem is, there's a jump edit in the footage: From the time Card whispers to Bush until the end of the scene in the classroom, only 2 minutes and 10 seconds elapse.
But this new, fuller footage shows Bush sitting for a full five minutes after he'd been told that "America is under attack."
He declined to take action even longer than this, but unfortunately this footage ends before he leaves the classroom. Thanks to an amazing article by Allan Wood and Paul Thompson, we know what happened after the footage suddenly cuts off:
The only source to describe what happened next is Fighting Back by Bill Sammon. Publishers Weekly described Sammon's book as an "inside account of the Bush administration's reaction to 9-11 [and] a breathless, highly complimentary portrait of the president [showing] the great merit and unwavering moral vision of his inner circle." [Publisher's Weekly, 10/15/02] Sammon's conservative perspective makes his account of Bush's behavior at the end of the photo-op all the more surprising. Bush is described as smiling and chatting with the children "as if he didn't have a care in the world" and "in the most relaxed manner imaginable." White House aide Gordon Johndroe, then came in as he usually does at the end of press conferences, and said, "Thank you, press. If you could step out the door we came in, please." A reporter then asked, "Mr. President, are you aware of the reports of the plane crash in New York? Is there anything...", But Bush interrupted, and no doubt recalling his order, "DON'T SAY ANYTHING YET," Bush responded, "I'll talk about it later." But still the president did not leave. "He stepped forward and shook hands with [classroom teacher] Daniels, slipping his left hand behind her in another photo-op pose. He was taking his good old time. ... Bush lingered until the press was gone." [Fighting Back: The War on Terrorism - From Inside the Bush White House, by Bill Sammon, 10/02, p. 90]
For a detailed portrait of what Bush did and didn't do on 9/11, you can do no better than to read this article here. It is based completely on reports from mainstream media and statements from government officials.
Apologists claim that Bush didn't leave simply because he didn't want to interrupt and upset the children, but this falls apart for several reasons:
1) America is being attacked, thousands are dying, and Bush doesn't know if we're facing nuclear, biological, or chemical attacks, as well. Couldn't he just say, "Excuse me, kids, I need to take care of something. It's part of being President, y'understand. I'll be back as soon as I can."
2) At the moment Card told Bush about the second plane, the children weren't reading to Bush. They had finished reading words from an easel and were reaching under their chairs for a book when Card whispered to Bush. Another 30 seconds would elapse before they started reading again. This pause was a perfect time for Bush to politely excuse himself.
3) By staying, he not only endangered his own life, but the lives of all of those children. Wouldn't it be better to risk upsetting them than to risk letting them die in a terror attack?
4) Even if Bush was afraid of hurting the kiddies' feelings, what about the Secret Service? Have they been trained not to attempt to save the President's life if it might bother some schoolchildren?
5) What about Chief of Staff Andrew Card, White House Spokesperson Ari Fleischer, and other officials who were in that classroom? Didn't they feel that a 21st-century Pearl Harbor and a potential attack on the President himself were worth some sort of action?
6) Finally, and most damningly, this excuse doesn't explain why Bush continued to mill around the classroom for several minutes after the children had finished reading.
I think I, or a better leader, would have left. Yep.Melody wrote:So, what would you or a president better than Bush have done in his place, specifically?
That's a very creepy comic. Besides, nothing says the president couldn't have displayed a semblance of calm if he had left.Melody wrote: I would do what he did, not because I would be stumped, but because I always display a semblance of calm. It helps keep me calm and people around me relax a little when I laugh after, say, a chemistry experiment lights on fire, and I robotically clutch my head and say, "Oh no. A fire." A comic to illustrate this: http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v25 ... y_calm.png
The other problem here is that the secret service was right there.Melody wrote:The problem with Bush's scenario is that he could have been stumped.
Yeah, okay. So maybe the kids were in danger either way. But that still doesn't explain the president -- and the secret service, just standing there and ignoring the threat. The whole scenario strikes me as irresponsible.Melody wrote: --edit--
I noticed this:
3) By staying, he not only endangered his own life, but the lives of all of those children. Wouldn't it be better to risk upsetting them than to risk letting them die in a terror attack?
That does not make sense. Look at it from the perspective of a terrorist. What would they do? Crash a plane into the school? In that case, the president leaving the building would change nothing. Would they use explosives? Terrorists would have detonated them right after the president had entered the building. And if they had not, they are terrorists--whether or not the president was inside (for example, if the president was told of the WTC attacks before arriving at the school and decided not to go) would have changed nothing.
=b Why would you leave? Sure, leaving sounds better than staying, but what logic supports leaving?TheGoobla wrote:I think I, or a better leader, would have left. Yep.Melody wrote:So, what would you or a president better than Bush have done in his place, specifically?
Just like we had to read the explanation to this strip to get it!ShineDog wrote:its just niche, and you have to read the front page for it to make sense.
If one cannot grow or evolve, and ignore any and all criticisms and advice, one will til the soil of complacency.RPin wrote:
But I'm fine with that too! I'm happy to see that Cory can take criticism in such a friendly manner. We head experiences with people... (how should I put it?...) ...more hostile than him. If he's going to use the advices, it's up to him, in the end.
Just go through the entire archives...all the answers(and a recipe for chip dip) are in there...well maybe not the chip dip.[AOD] wrote:I can't really understand Pockybot's comic strip. Are they supposed to be in some sort of video game or virtual reality or something? Is it supposed to be a gamer strip that's making references to something I'm not familiar with? Or what? And what's so cyberpunk about it (unless I've not gotten far enough in the archives that I've yet to see the 'real world' - a more than likely thing)?
I is confuuuuuuzzed!
?~AoD
