Forum Adjustment (Your Opinion Here)

Post by **STrRedWolf** » Fri May 14, 2004 8:12 pm

Blame Bob for this one. He's telling me (off of 'Spot's forums) that you're not liking the AutoPruning.

I do see AutoPruning as nessisary because some stuff has gotten old. I mean, do we really need to keep stuff that came from UBB back in '95? 'Space has changed alot since back then! Also, the Off-Topic forum should *never* fill more than a small amount of space, and has some tight autopruning for that effect.

So, I'd like your opinion to see if I'm doing too tight of a job.

Off Topic is pruned every day for threads more than 7 days old without a reply. It's off topic, really shouldn't be here, I'm not keeping it around.

Comic Pitching I just turned off AutoPruning on. I think folks are reviewing the comic in there, so I'm going to keep that. ( A better idea would be to integrate the reviews into the Guide. KISAI!!!! Can we hook into the Forum DB for that?!? )

Forum Games I doubt really needs to be kept, and some of the stuff there (like the Battle Royale) would need an third-party archiver because it's almost like a comic jam in there. It's set to check every five days for topics with no reply over 30 days old.

The rest have no autopruning enabled, but I reserve the right to globally prune should I have to cut the DB down. Usually I'll keep three months. Remember, Announcements and Sticky'ed topics don't get pruned period, but don't abuse that. Those are for important notes.

Does everyone agree with this? Disagree? Suggestions as to values? And no, I'm not turning off AutoPrune in Off Topic.

VileTerror · Post by **VileTerror** » Fri May 14, 2004 8:58 pm

I do not like how you run things here. In fact, I felt the community was doing sensationally before you came here and elicited all those changes a short while ago, Wolf. I understand it

Joel Fagin · Post by **Joel Fagin** » Fri May 14, 2004 9:15 pm

VileTerror wrote:the hard work and creative craft of fine, intelligent artists.

Forum games and comic pitching? Are you kidding? You might as well video tape commercials* and film people playing Uno. The content is transitory and largely irrelevant.

All sounds good to me, anyway. Off-Topic is a bit iffy - that can have genuine content - but it's mainly topical so I think it'd be okay.

- Joel Fagin

* Says the person who collects movie trailers.

Mr Ekshin · Post by **Mr Ekshin** » Fri May 14, 2004 9:18 pm

"idea spawning pool..."

Gotta agree.

Won't be as wordy, but some really CHOICE threads seem to get the axe around here.

Also, splitting things up into more forums just splits the PEOPLE up. I really liked everything lumped here in general (pitching, off-topic).

But of course, old threads can die, we're not dimwits, we can make new ones. We always have new ideas.

I don't think that there's necessarily anything wrong with the janitors cleaning up this place, but it does make me feel as if you're the hall monitors, and we have to keep finding ways to be expressive and have fun until the next clean-up.

Nope, I don't have a giant pitch or point. Just musings this time on a minor one: Let the kids play a little, we promise not to break anything.

Superlance · Post by **Superlance** » Fri May 14, 2004 9:25 pm

I whole-heartly agree with Vile, here, Wolf.

You seem to act without very much foresight into your actions; carrying out foolish actions against a community of which you are not curerrently a part of.

Try to understand that, while you may have the best intentions when making these descisions, they hurt us; the members of the KeenSpace community.

-Lance

Yeahduff · Post by **Yeahduff** » Sat May 15, 2004 2:36 am

And let no one accuse Vile of not having major balls, in the parlence of our times.

I think, though, we're being too harsh. The forum was going a bit wonky and people were getting erratic at alleged spamming, and when the admin noticed, he took action. Perhaps too quickly and without all the information, but at least he didn't let the thing spiral out of control and into the pits of doom. We tried some things, and maybe some of them aren't working, but maybe some of them just need some tweaking.

So the creation of the Off Topic forum has caused a division. So? Instead of one major clique we now have two (three, if you cound Forum Games). It's like the big city: the punk rockers will hang out over here and the preps will hang out over here, but for the most part we get along and come together in certain areas. Personally, I find it convenient and far less intimidating to have two popular forums instead of everyone piling everything on to one. If I just wanna stop in, I'll check General Discussion and leave. It's nice.

Autopruning..... I don't know. I can see where people get upset, but we can't hang on to everything. Perhaps a longer grace period would be better. In either case, it's not there because Striker's mean: It's to keep this place running efficiently and cost effectively, two things that aren't petty concerns.

I was critical about Comic Pitching early, but I've come to like the idea quite a bit. I've discovered some comics, non 'Space even, that I never would have if it weren't there. The autoprune there should be suspended or lengthened not because we want to look back on all the old ads, but because the place gets so barren during slow periods that no one wants to post there and, thus, no one wants to check it out. I think it's worth having, though.

That's all I got right now. Oh. While I got your ear, can you change the descriptions on the index that say, "If you're looking for reviews, go to General Discussion?" That's really confusing the new kids.

Phalanx · Post by **Phalanx** » Sat May 15, 2004 2:45 am

yeahduff wrote:That's all I got right now. Oh. While I got your ear, can you change the descriptions on the index that say, "If you're looking for reviews, go to General Discussion?" That's really confusing the new kids.

I second that.

And maybe it might be better if you intergrated Comic pitching and reviews? Or something like that.

Xmung · Post by **Xmung** » Sat May 15, 2004 3:13 am

seems a shame to auto-prune - as mr ekshin and others have noted there have been some good threads and some fun threads that really shouldn't get the chop. it seems clear to me that many people trawl through a lot of the old posts... and as a person interested in archiving publications for historical purposes i feel the same applies to the stuff that gets bounced around in the forums. that said, i understand there may be practical technical issues that are hard to solve without throwing some $$$ at it.

back around the end of last year GD was a happening place, and while it's still great to drop by i can't but feel that some air went out of it by splitting it up. on the other hand, i have a lot more time to work on comics now!!

YarpsDat · Post by **YarpsDat** » Sat May 15, 2004 5:30 am

I agree with VileTerror on that one. Completly. o_

Maybe except the me beeing an exceptional coder part. I'm not as good as I make it seem.

STrRedWolf wrote: And no, I'm not turning off AutoPrune in Off Topic.

Fah. I usualy don't post in places with autopruning anyways. But how about setting a moderator there? So we can at least salvage the good/important threads? OffTopic surprisingly often spawns comics/keenspace relevant discussions that belong in GD.
EVERY forum that I saw AutoPruning on, also has a "Archives" forum for storing the good stuff!

I'm against autopruning in all of its forms. Yes. Even in off topic and forum games.
Why? Just look what happened to BattleRoyalle! We got a number of COMICS deleted because of that.

STrRedWolf wrote:I do see AutoPruning as nessisary because some stuff has gotten old.
I mean, do we really need to keep stuff that came from UBB back in '95? 'Space has changed alot since back then!

Just look here, here and here, and tell me it's not inspiring, that it's worthless, and that it should be deleted.

How about this: archive the old (ie. pre-crash) stuff on say "theoldforums.keenspace.com" to make it easier for the forums.keenspace.com engine?

I understand you want to make the forums more efficient...(I sure hope you don't want to delete information just because it "has gotten old", because if you do... then I'm just rendered speechless)
the question is why?
If it's to reduce the costs, sure go ahead, it's not like I could bribe you into not doing it.
But if it's to make it more user friendly, you're doing something wrong.

Also, I kinda like splitting the forums. If I'm low on time I can check GD, and if I have more time I can check OT and Games.

Warren · Post by **Warren** » Sat May 15, 2004 6:48 am

Even I'm with VT here.

If you're Jonesing to make space in the DB, kill all the comic forums that have been dead for two years. More than likely that comic isn't updating anymore, so who would care.

I hate the autopruning thing.

Fadedflame · Post by **Fadedflame** » Sat May 15, 2004 11:22 am

I can see how auto pruning would be necessary in somes ways but, if you won't turn it off at least extend it back some, maybe to two weeks instead of one.
Speaking as a new comer to the forums, and one who doesn't always have access to the internet, I actually find most of the more.. keenspace community aimed things in off topic and general, I don't visit the other two often so I don't really have much to say there. But, it would be nice to be able to look back at old topics instead of accidentally bringing up new ones with the same idea behind it, espeically if what you were wondering was already answered. If there is a way to have a mod there who could keep an eye on the more "primoridal soup" type topic that would help keep the better topics around while still getting rid of the dead topics.
~Faded

Ghastly · Post by **Ghastly** » Sat May 15, 2004 1:11 pm

I'm not sure why there is an "Off Topic" forum to begin with. How is anything posted in there off topic from anything posted in the General forum?

I can tell you from experience I've had running BBSes since the early 80s that the more you segregate the conversation into topic specific forums, the faster you kill off the forums, particularily your General forum. The only forums I read here anyways are General, Help, and my own comic's forum.
As for autopruning. I don't think it matters too much if you're getting rid of stuff from 2 years ago, but sometimes people need to reference a thread from a couple of months ago and it should still be there. Old messages also help newcomers catch up on the history of the forum.

I know I don't want any autopruning in my forum.

Post by **STrRedWolf** » Sat May 15, 2004 5:16 pm

Keep at it folks, you're doing great!

I'm glad you think of that, VT. I may have some faults, being a bit heavy handed. Some things I don't catch eazily too, and I'm working on that.

Comics aren't pruned, Ghastly, and I'm not expecting to do a general prune. However, some general forum cleanup is needed... and I belive I have hit on something that'll work.

Moderating Off Topic... If folks want to moderate it, then nominate a mod here. I'll even accept VT as mod of Off Topic. The only requirement is if it's related to comics, it goes into General Discussion.

Oh, I also edited the Forum Pitches desc to include reviews yesterday.

I'm still looking for suggestions on how old these threads need to be before being pruned...

RLC Davidson · Post by **RLC Davidson** » Sat May 15, 2004 6:42 pm

Erm... I think there's a slight conflict in the description....

Comic Pitching wrote:This is where you pitch your webcomic, or get it reviewed. If you want reviews of your comic, go to General Discussion.

Somesuch · Post by **Somesuch** » Sat May 15, 2004 7:30 pm

My opinion? OT needs a moderator. I'd volunteer, but I'm not sure how others would feel about that. Thus, I suggest Mr.Bob or Phalanx, or perhaps rkolter. While VT has changed a lot, I'm still not sure I would trust this person with being a moderator at the present time.

OT and GD could be reintegrated, though, given that things appear in each that could have as easily appeared in the other. Forum Games and Comic-Pitching, though, can remain separate. While many of us enjoy Forum Games, most of the posts there are not all that great, apart from perhaps Cluedo and Battle Royale. Furthermore, the constant posting of games and comic-pitching in GD tended to annoy some forumites, which is understandable.

As for cleaning up old posts, I say go for it--but I'd like to see the really great posts with comics and such archived. If forumites would inform the mods which posts they'd like to see archived, then the rest of the old ones could die painlessly. For GD, I'd say posts should stay 6 months to a year after the last post. For OT, probably a month or two. Comic-pitching? A month. Forum games? No more than a month, and less would probably be acceptable to most people. I don't think anybody would contest those timeframes if certain favorite threads (Battle Royale, Keenspace Cluedo, others involving comics) were allowed to be archived.

Comic-pitching should be the only place for comic reviews and advertising. Art help, site design help, and writing help could go in technique tips and tricks, if any further reviewing is needed.

I like the idea of integrating a review system with the Guide. Let artists tell each other what they think. It could be a great thing.

Phact0rri · Post by **Phact0rri** » Sun May 16, 2004 1:08 am

I like the idea of a moderator as apposed to auto-prunning. if they actually keep a check up on it. but there again you could delete somthing that someone else wants. someone might not like DNR and some people want to keep them. all in all its up to the person doing the modding. there are some definates, but what do you do with the maybes?

I like the idea of a log of forums posts that Yarps mentioned.. the biggest problem would be... wouldn't that be a hella work. i'd love for the forums to move faster (and though I'm still realitivly new) I think there's information here that people would love to have. like old Battle royale threads when they are locked.

So the answer is not an easy one, and its good to see that the ears of consus is open. But personally I'm not a fan of auto pruning if just cause the eyes of value from people who post here and know things are bit more effective than a date for deletion.

Mr.Bob · Post by **Mr.Bob** » Sun May 16, 2004 2:07 am

Seriously, if space is the problem, just get rid of the dead forums. Nobody would miss them. People do miss recent threads in active forums though.
However, if autoprune's here to stay, then a moment of grace no less than a couple of months (4-5) would be okay with me, with an option for the topic moderator to flag important threads exempting them from termination (but I doubt this is possible).

As for "Mr. Bob for moderator", I decline any such position. I don't like being responsible for stuff; I'm just here for the free beer.

Jim North · Post by **Jim North** » Sun May 16, 2004 2:23 am

Wasn't there some talk being bandied about a while ago about Kitty Kat Black being OT mod?

Anyway, I know I haven't really been around here long to be voicing any strong opinion about this sort of thing, but I tend to agree with the good Mr. Bob. As long as someone's able to save the important threads from certain destruction, auto-prune's just fine and dandy. Not every word that drips from our keyboards is going to be instant gold, so there's no reason in keeping the crap along with the cream, neh?

Phalanx · Post by **Phalanx** » Sun May 16, 2004 4:26 am

somesuch wrote:My opinion? OT needs a moderator. I'd volunteer, but I'm not sure how others would feel about that. Thus, I suggest Mr.Bob or Phalanx, or perhaps rkolter.

A mod who frequently visits the forum is always better than a computer for doing the pruning.

I never quite saw the point of off-topic, but if you want a mod for OT, I'd recommend Bob or rkolter. I never go there, so no point.

War · Post by **War** » Sun May 16, 2004 5:43 am

The problem is that only an admin can perform manual prunes and still can't select which threads to prune off. Deleting threads causes a drop in post counts, pruning threads preserves the postcount.

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