Warning about DeviantART

[KittyKatBlack]

I posted this in another thread, but I thought anyone with a DeviantART account should see this, and I know some people don't really click on a topic unless it intrests them. Since there's a lot of artists here, I figure a few of them have DeviantART accounts. I thought it would be worth while to let them all know about this:

Has anyone that has joined DeviantArt actually read the disclaimer? If they have, I don't see why any serious artist in their right mind would join. From what I read (It may have changed since then.) when I thought about joining, apparently the owners of the website have put in a little clause saying that they have full ownership rights of any art posted on their website, meaning they can alter, distribute or do whatever the hell they want with any art on the site without legal reprocussion. I don't think many people saw this, or I doubt the site would be as popular as it is.

Edit- Yeah it hasn't changed. Read the fine print:

The following is a brief overview (in plain English) of the terms and conditions under which submissions to deviantART.com will be accepted. In general, by submitting photographic, artistic, computer-generated and/or other materials (audio, visual, audiovisual and otherwise) to us and agreeing to the terms and conditions set forth below, you are giving us the nonexclusive right (i.e., you can grant similar rights to others at any time) to use those materials on and as part of our websites (e.g., to include your materials in our database which we make freely available over the World Wide Web). You are also representing to us that, among other things, you have the right to allow us to so use the materials and are agreeing, among other things, to cover the costs of our defense if someone claims that we do not have the right to so use the materials (or that you do not have the right to allow us to so use the materials). Our right to use your materials in this manner will continue until you choose to remove your materials, or any of them, from our website, and notify us in writing that you want to terminate this agreement. You are agreeing that we are not responsible for your work while it is on our website, including protecting it from other people, and that we are not responsible for removing it from our website. This means that if someone else gets your materials from our website and starts selling posters featuring your materials that we are not responsible for this activity and that you will pursue that other person and not deviantART to stop such use of your materials. Despite the foregoing sentence, you are also agreeing that we can remove your materials, or any of them, from our website at any time or from time to time without notice to you and without reason. You are agreeing that we have the right to use your name and likeness on our websites solely in connection with the promotion and marketing of our business (e.g., we can refer to you as a member of deviantART.com) until you notify us that you wish to terminate this agreement and you have removed all of your materials from our website. In the event that we have sublicensed your materials to another website, it is your responsibility to have your materials removed from that website and you will not hold us responsible or liable if the other website refuses to remove your materials. We reserve the right to make changes to this agreement in the future, but any changes would not apply to you unless you accept those changed terms.

If you already knew, then good luck to you. If not, well... I dunno what to tell you. If you don't care, then that's fine too. I just thought I'd bring it to people's attention.

[ZOMBIE USER 17345]

I'd like to make a recommendation.
http://ZeD.CBC.Ca
You don't have to be Canadian to join, but anything you upload here will have the chance to make it on the ZeD TV show (which airs on the CBC every weekday).

[Terotrous]

I posted this in another thread, but I thought anyone with a DeviantART account should see this, and I know some people don't really click on a topic unless it intrests them. Since there's a lot of artists here, I figure a few of them have DeviantART accounts. I thought it would be worth while to let them all know about this:

There was a big explosion over this a little while back, when someone found a store selling t-shirts with images made by artists from DeviantArt. However, it was later found out that DeviantArt had in no way authorized this and that people were getting worked up over nothing.

DeviantArt provides a service which basically lets anyone post whatever they want. As such, they need a complicated waiver to ensure that they can't get sued. It's somewhat similar to the forms you have to sign to go on a school trip, except that you read this one.

[KittyKatBlack]

In that particular instance, DeviantART wasn't involved in it. But my point was that if they HAD been, there was nothing the artists could have done about it because in their disclaimer it says that they're allowed to do exactly things like that with no legal reprecussions. Also, if you sue DeviantART for anything, you have to pay for all legal fees. That's probably why there haven't been many large public cases against it.

Also, the part about them being allowed to distribute and use your art as they see fit isn't required for legal protection. In my eyes they're doing that simply so they can reap the benifits of any possible popularity from one of their members.

[Terotrous]

In that particular instance, DeviantART wasn't involved in it. But my point was that if they HAD been, there was nothing the artists could have done about it because in their disclaimer it says that they're allowed to do exactly things like that with no legal reprecussions. Also, if you sue DeviantART for anything, you have to pay for all legal fees. That's probably why there haven't been many large public cases against it.

Also, the part about them being allowed to distribute and use your art as they see fit isn't required for legal protection. In my eyes they're doing that simply so they can reap the benifits of any possible popularity from one of their members.

This is pretty much true of anything. Big business has a strangle hold on the consumer. It's even worse with anything that's "free".

"Sure, you can use geocities, but by creating an account you agree to give us your mortal soul."

[KittyKatBlack]

As far as I know, Keenspace is free, and from what I read, we retain all legal rights to our artwork without having to worry about them using it for their own benifit without telling us about it.

[Heffaloop]

... I don't really see the problem.

They're not saying that they have full ownership over your stuff... They're saying that they have the right to use your work ON THEIR SITE and their site alone

you are giving us the nonexclusive right (i.e., you can grant similar rights to others at any time)<b> to use those materials on and as part of our websites</b> (e.g., to include your materials in our database which we make freely available over the World Wide Web).

Which basically means you are letting them give you space to upload your stuff, that they can brand with DEVIANT ART on the top of your page.

The rest of it is saying that if someone pinches your stuff off their site, they're not liable for it, and if anyone is to blame, it's not them cause their just hosting your stuff. Kinda necessary really, because it isn't their fault. This kind of risk is present whenever you publish your work <b>anywhere</b>, and they're just covering their asses in case stupid people decide to try and sue them for it -- for some mystical reason.

[Superlance]

... I don't really see the problem.

They're not saying that they have full ownership over your stuff... They're saying that they have the right to use your work ON THEIR SITE and their site alone

you are giving us the nonexclusive right (i.e., you can grant similar rights to others at any time)<b> to use those materials on and as part of our websites</b> (e.g., to include your materials in our database which we make freely available over the World Wide Web).

Which basically means you are letting them give you space to upload your stuff, that they can brand with DEVIANT ART on the top of your page.

The rest of it is saying that if someone pinches your stuff off their site, they're not liable for it, and if anyone is to blame, it's not them cause their just hosting your stuff. Kinda necessary really, because it isn't their fault. This kind of risk is present whenever you publish your work <b>anywhere</b>, and they're just covering their asses in case stupid people decide to try and sue them for it -- for some mystical reason.

*nods feverently*

Yes.

[KittyKatBlack]

If they're only using your artwork on their own website, what's this for:

"In the event that we have sublicensed your materials to another website, it is your responsibility to have your materials removed from that website and you will not hold us responsible or liable if the other website refuses to remove your materials."

It's things like this that get me upset.

It's one thing to have your art ripped off from a website simply because it's available. Yeah, it happens, and you can't expect a website to protect you from that. But they want PERMISSION to give your art away to other people WITHOUT your consent.

[Heffaloop]

Key word is sublicensed, which means they're under the same terms and conditions that deviant art is under.

[KittyKatBlack]

So in other words THOSE people can give away your art as well without bothering to tell you about it? Nice to know.

Anyway, I didn't mean for this to get into a drawn out debate over it or not. That's why I added "If you don't care, that's fine too." I just wanted to let people know what DeviantART is doing in case they didn't see it when they signed up.

[Heffaloop]

And everyone that they give it to is only allowed to publish it on their website with a formal contract -- which is a lot better than just taking it and calling it their own imho. Which happens alot.

Also, while the contract doesn't elaborate alot, I'm pretty sure any thing that is passed on is passed on with full credit to the right person.

Meanwhile, WTF are they going to do? Deviant art has SUBLICENSED it to them, meaning they were formally given it, and they publish on their shitty little website going OH HEY LOOK WHAT I DREW GUYS AREN'T I COOL?????!!@1

They're not allowed to MAKE MONEY OFF IT, so I don't see what the big deal is. I'd be flattered if anyone wanted my stuff on their website.

Also, I hate deviant art because it's so slow for me. I'm not sticking up for deviant art out of any kind of love for it, I just can't see what you're trying to get at, and whyit's such a big deal.

[ZOMBIE USER 17345]

I'm attacking DeviantArt to gain support for ZeD!

Tee hee!

<stern>Join ZeD!</stern>

[KittyKatBlack]

They can make money off of it if they wanted to, just not directly. If someone decorates their site with your art, but aren't selling your art specificly, but just using your art on their promotional site, they're technicly making money off of it, since they didn't do the art themselves, and they didn't pay you for use of it. Like I said, some people don't think it's a big deal, and in all honesty if someone wanted to use my art on a website, I wouldn't demand a fee either (Well, depending on how it's used) but like I said before, there are some artists that are very particular about their work and they don't like it just being used and modified (I.E. making title images, web buttons, banners, etc.) with it to promote a site they're not affiliated with. I mean what if you were a really religious person and found out your art was being used to promote a satanic website? It's an extreme example, but it's that kind of thing that I'm talking about. I just think it's unessicary for them to demand those types of rights over your work, when they don't have to. That's the main thing I'm getting at.

[Superlance]

I instantly hate Zed.
DeviantART automatically took care of the viewing issues.
With Zed, I have to make, and upload a crappy thumbnail to go with the image.

[Heffaloop]

Yeah just not directly.

Any artist particular about their work would probably not bother with deviant art to start off with.

But ok, valid point. I can see why you're 'so angry, but they have to demand these types of rights to COVER THEIR ASSES. If they get sued by said religious person, they won't have the money to host everyone else's stuff, who don't give a such a big shit about their work.

But you can still be angry.

[ZOMBIE USER 17345]

You don't have to upload the thumbnail. It's optional.

[KittyKatBlack]

Actually, all they need to say is that "If someone takes your work from this site without our knowledge, it's not our fault, and we're not liable for what happens to it."

Instead they're saying, "Your consenting to give us permission to hand out your art to anyone we feel like, legally, and your giving us that right so if you complain there's nothing you can do about it."

To put it in perspective, it's like this. The first is a landlord saying, "If anything in your house is stolen, I'm not responsible for the loss."

The second is a landlord saying "You agree that I can take anything in your appartment and hand it out to anyone I want at any time, and there's nothing you can do about it, cause you said I could."

That's why I said it's unnessicary, and isn't used to cover their asses. The first statement is for covering their asses. The second is for their benifit only. It's not for protection. (Unless you consider them protecting themselves from you getting mad about them freely distributing your art to anyone they feel like "Nessicary Protection.")

[RPin]

The stuff I post at DeviantART I don't want copyrighted anyway, so why care?

[YarpsDat]

I suspect they had something legitimate when they wrote that.
ie. they may consider switching servers, or changing their company name in the future, or something.
Maybe something like that would require them to "sublicense" your stuff ie. to "DevArt2.0".

Maybe they went too far, but I still think they are just covering their asses.