4 months can say alot.

MikeLeffel · Post by **MikeLeffel** » Sat Dec 23, 2000 1:00 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by twentyfour:
I really did miss making my comic, and wanted to come back to it. But now it's just another face in a crowd of some 200 odd comics. Originality can stand out on it's own, but not when everyone is fighting tooth and nail for the same thing.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Then why draw at all? The world is FILLED with people who draw. The world is filled with people who do EVERYTHING. Bah. Just because Keenspace is filled with people shouldn't mean anything. If you love to draw, draw. Who cares what numbers you pull? Unless of course, numbers are all you want. It would be easy to become bitter then. But to be bitter because there's lots of people all striving for attention?If you really like drawing, remember...Numbers are like money, it isn't everything.Mike "Of course, give me some money and I may change my mind." Leffel ^_^

Damonk13 · Post by **Damonk13** » Sat Dec 23, 2000 1:06 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by MikeLeffel:

Mike "Of course, give me some money and I may change my mind." Leffel ^_^<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Umm...I'll be happy with chocolate bars.Or beer.(Yes! Yes! I am leaving! I'm calling the cab rignt now!) ------------------
"Woohoo! I FINALLY thought of a witty qu~~
DAMMIT. I can't remember what it was now...
But, man. It was witty. Whoo.
Honest.
...
...
OK.
So I got nothing."
--damonk13
<A HREF="http://framed.keenspace.com/" TARGET=_blank>Framed! The Comic!</A>
(now with Beta-Carotine and new, minty <A HREF="http://www.keenspace.com/cgi-bin/ubb/fo ... LastLogin=" TARGET=_blank>Forum</A>!)

John T · Post by **John T** » Sat Dec 23, 2000 1:10 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by rtist54:
What is the url!?! I've checked the Keendex and stuff, but I can't find it. John, do you know?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It's <A HREF="http://twentyfour.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>http://twentyfour.keenspace.com</A>, Big P. Duh. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif">------------------
John Troutman
The SporkMan Chronicles
<A HREF="http://www.sporkman.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.sporkman.com</A>

John T · Post by **John T** » Sat Dec 23, 2000 1:18 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by damonk13:
(And TF, if you've you've got Trout on your side, you must consider coming back -- I mean, he's become like the Godfather of the Space or something! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif"> )
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The Godfather of Keenspace? I'm putting that in my sig. It's not all that unappropriate, though, I guess. I signed up the first day Keenspace existed, posted the first forum request when the Help Center board went up, co-founded #keenspace, had the first critique on KSCritics ever, was there at the creation of the first mailing list, along with the second, more official one, I co-created and webmastered the first Keenspace event ever, I was one of the first to sign up for the now disturbingly huge Keenspace dropdown, and I guess I do have one of the largest archives on here (I think I'd have the largest archive if it wasn't for that infernal Boxjam.) Dear God, I'm the most conceited person to ever to set foot in this place!*cough*Damonk, you may now post on this thread with my blessing. NOW KISS MY RINGS, BEE-AUTCH! Godfather of Keenspace...damn, I like the sound of that... <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif">------------------
John Troutman
The SporkMan Chronicles
<A HREF="http://www.sporkman.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.sporkman.com</A>

Rtist54 · Post by **Rtist54** » Sat Dec 23, 2000 2:06 am

Boy, am I making a full outta myself, or what? Anyways, To The GodFather of Keenspace!!!!!!Hip Hip Hooray!!!!!Pauly

Brian Young · Post by **Brian Young** » Sat Dec 23, 2000 2:07 am

Look dude. If your looking for maturity and adultness, an internet comic strip community isn't the place to look. Many of the people here ARE teenagers and high school students. (Not me, I'm a college freshmen which isn't that much better. ^_^) Honestly I would love it if people would write me and tell how me how much my art and writing sucks but that hasn't happened to me. Until this week after I started to bitch about feedback, no fans had ever written to me. "As I said before I won't trash art or writing. But I WILL trash people!" That seems real crummy to me. It's one thing to talk about writing and art, but no one can truly let another person see enough of them to allow another human able to judge the totality of his or her existance.From what I've seen in the four months I've been here--I started about two weeks after your last comic--everyone has seemed very supportive of each other here. People don't seem to ignore the newbies ... this just might not be the best time of year to judge since many people are away and the message boards aren't being posted on as much as usual. In the KS e-mail group everyone has been very nice for the most part and only once did it become severely negative. Also, if you're not willing to be part of Keenspace as it is now I don't see how your can judge effectively. You are right that it does seem like a rant from a stranger, and I suppose if it were a message from someone who had been here longer it would have more of a personal effect.But on a personal level, I really don't care too much about page views. An average of 500 page views a day seems pretty good for me and it's growing ever month ... I care more about feedback and that few people have taken their time to give me any opinion on my comic at all. I don't think quiting will solve this problem though, and I don't think quiting solves your dilemma either.------------------
Brian E. YoungMy (almost) ALL-NEW Homepage: <A HREF="http://brian.boygirlcomic.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.boygirlcomic.com/</A>
Boys & Girls Club: <A HREF="http://www.boygirlcomic.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.boygirlcomic.com/</A>
Gravis: <A HREF="http://gravis.keenspace.com/" TARGET=_blank>http://gravis.keenspace.com/</A> (on hiatus)

SuperJoe · Post by **SuperJoe** » Sat Dec 23, 2000 3:24 am

Speaking of page veiws and what-not, what's good exactly? I don't check often, and can quite make sence of the whole thing. I'm averaging 1053 hits a day.... is that okay?And bring back that Water Street.
I read through the archives and found it to be... well... pretty good.------------------
What 'cho talkin' 'bout Captian Kirk?
I'm a doctor, not a rodeo clown!
<A HREF="http://jwalkin.keenspace.com/" TARGET=_blank>J-Walkin'</A> refreshes your mouth, and <A HREF="http://comicollage.keenspace.com/" TARGET=_blank>Comicollage</A> leaves a minty after taste.

John T · Post by **John T** » Sat Dec 23, 2000 4:02 am

I think an average of 1000+ pages a day is about a normal average for a lot of Keenspacers. FYI, an average of 1613 for December nets you 50k and 10 bucks.------------------
John Troutman
The SporkMan Chronicles
<A HREF="http://www.sporkman.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.sporkman.com</A>
"I mean, he's become like the Godfather
of the Space or something!" ~ Damonk, FRAMED!!!

Twentyfour · Post by **Twentyfour** » Sat Dec 23, 2000 4:03 am

I think there has been some misunderstandings in some of what I said... I'll try to clear up as much as I can.1) Keenspace seems a little to crowded for me now, it was only quasi-friendly when I left and it seems to have changed little, I don't hate this place, Hell I miss it like I miss the original transformers on t.v.. 2) I am NOT giving up drawing! That'd be the last thing I'd ever do! I'm actually heading out to an animation school that'll be webcasting in 2004. I'm going to beg and plead and "Water Street" may one day be a cartoon..... yea....riiiiiight.3) No John it's not all because of too many people!4)... oh yea... and throwing that "Good Luck" message of mine back in my face was nasty John! .... but it was a nice move!5) Anyway, it's looking like I'll be re0-starting my comic elsewhere, I'm hoping a smaller comic community. Maybe with a little more restrictive selection process... if I make it in.Thanks for the idea Lazy, I appreciate you actually came up with the idea but I really don't think that'd come thru

-Dave Rigley

John T · Post by **John T** » Sat Dec 23, 2000 4:17 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by twentyfour:
4)... oh yea... and throwing that "Good Luck" message of mine back in my face was nasty John! .... but it was a nice move!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm like a slightly more sinister Ghost of Christmas Past. NOW GO DRAW YOUR COMIC, DAMMIT! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif"> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>5) Anyway, it's looking like I'll be re0-starting my comic elsewhere, I'm hoping a smaller comic community.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You may find a smaller community, but they might not be as enthusiastic as a lot of us still are. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif"> Still, it'd be great if you kept going with your comic. I hate seeing comics die, especially comics that are looking so good. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Thanks for the idea Lazy, I appreciate you actually came up with the idea but I really don't think that'd come thru

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>He's right, though. There are a bunch of us that would give you hefty plugs if you restarted. Remember when Corey started Common Grounds and twelve-billion artists gave her a link? Insta-fanbase. Think about it.------------------
John Troutman
The SporkMan Chronicles
<A HREF="http://www.sporkman.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.sporkman.com</A>
"I mean, he's become like the Godfather
of the Space or something!" ~ Damonk, FRAMED!!![This message has been edited by John T (edited 12-23-2000).]

Nowhereman · Post by **Nowhereman** » Sat Dec 23, 2000 4:35 am

Heh Heh you guys are funny. I like keenspace a lot. Its hard to even get your comic published for free anywhere, and keenspace lets you do it. They give you all this cool stuff to work with, and you go to it.
I, for one, have tried to quit my comic 5 times now but many of you can agree, that once you get into webcomics-you cant leave them.
Oh my good, keenspace has some negative people? Well shit, any group of people will have some. Thats just how life is. Keenspace people are nice, and we all want to get noticed. I think were all working towards a common goal and thats great. I wish I could help you on getting a fan base, but I'm clueless on that subject. and Don Toutman, i just compared our archives and I have more comics then you. But less then boxjam.Of course you could just say your get double the page hits i get, but Ill just cry and run away.And who am I in the keenspace community? Dennis Miller. I rant a lot, make a lot of obscure references and piss off a lot of people.

John T · Post by **John T** » Sat Dec 23, 2000 6:07 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Nowhereman:
and Don Toutman, i just compared our archives and I have more comics then you. But less then boxjam.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Blast! But really, I am kind of curious. Who does have the biggest archives on Keenspace?------------------
John Troutman
The SporkMan Chronicles
<A HREF="http://www.sporkman.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.sporkman.com</A>
"I mean, he's become like the Godfather
of the Space or something!" ~ Damonk, FRAMED!!!

ZOMBIE USER 197 · Post by **ZOMBIE USER 197** » Sat Dec 23, 2000 7:31 am

Well, I'm a little sad to see a long-time 'spacer bitter, but I'm happy to see so many upbeat follow-on posts. I hope that in spite of my 'Spothood, y'all still consider me part of the community (and that in spite of the fact that I was kind of mean to Nate you'll still listen to what I have to say).Ultimately, creating a comic strip is about doing something you like to do. KeenSpace is a great place to do it, because it's free, and so much of the work is automated for you. If I hadn't been 'Spotted, I KNOW I would still be Schlocking away on the 'Space. That was in my plan from the beginning.There are folks out there who feel they MUST create comics, and who spend thousands of dollars each year publishing on paper... and they keep doing it even though comics that suck compared to theirs are printed by the millions, and make their stupid hack-creators tons of money. But they keep on going, spending money out of pocket to keep their art alive, because it's Something They Have To Do.The arts are a wierd business to break in to. I've worked as a recording engineer and as a record producer (for the record, I'm 32... young, but far above the average age at the 'Space or the 'Spot), and the same stuff happens there. Artists (visual, musical, whatever), in my experience, tend to be flaky, highly emotional people who deal poorly with conflict. Cram 300 of them into one, little online community, and you are bound to see some fallout. I'm just glad there hasn't been MORE fallout, and that the hard radiation hasn't gotten down to the water table and started poisoning the wildlife.Howard "chernobyllic metaphor" Tayler <A HREF="http://www.schlockmercenary.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.schlockmercenary.com</A>

John T · Post by **John T** » Sat Dec 23, 2000 7:52 am

Well said, Howie. And I guess I'd still consider you part of our crew. I mean, you won't leave us alone! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif">------------------
John Troutman
The SporkMan Chronicles
<A HREF="http://www.sporkman.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.sporkman.com</A>
"I mean, he's become like the Godfather
of the Space or something!" ~ Damonk, FRAMED!!!

Twentyfour · Post by **Twentyfour** » Sat Dec 23, 2000 8:41 am

This is all just some thoughts that have popped into my head since leaving:It's been about 4 months since my comic was updated, it was a sad day when I actually had to make the final decision as to pull the plug on "Water Street" or not. I was never really one to bitch outwardly that my readership was low compared to other comics, nor was I one to go on the boards and stab my fellow 'Spacers in the back. Hell I'm not perfect, my comic wasn't very good, it barely had time to take off and not many people said much about it(I got a total of 3 e-mails concerning it over a two month span). One of my reasons for saying this is that I have noticed alot of immature artists complaining an incredible amount about other comics getting more opportunities then theirs, whether it be crossovers, moving up to Keenspot, or just about their readership being lower than others. I think this is a terrible waste of time, bitchin gets you no-where. Comparing your readership to someone who's been around longer is absolutely pointless, I spent days feeling pitiful because Sporkman was getting 3x my visits per day(Hell I think he got in one hour what I got in a day one time). Needless to say this was a waste of my time, Sporkman had been around longer and had accumulated a much larger audience, whilst I was still a newbie and my audience was mainly relatives and close friends. But then there was "Being 17", *laughs* everyone loved that strip! It was around a shorter time than mine but in that time influenced many other artists and readers. Guess that just shows how the newbies can still kick some ass. What always bothered me was that everyone seemed to get at eachothers throats after a short time. There's nothing like checking out a message board and seeing 15 messages about how bad your art sucks and that you shouldn't have a comic if you only update 2x a week. This hasn't happened personally but still I've seen it all about other comics. Now that Keenspace is quite possibly double what it was when I left I'm not surprised to see that things are worse in that area(See any messages posted about Exploitation Now).I know this just seems like a rant by some stranger, cuz there's a good chance that alot of you weren't here yet when I left, but this is what I have thought about when I'd reminisce about my comic. I loved doing it, but I hated being bunched into KeenSpace. Don't get me wrong, I loved that there was a free service open for me to put up my comic, and all the free advertising I could handle(thanks go out to Jesse Brack for actually wanting to do a crossover with me) but there is always a downside. Keenspace let anyone in... and I mean anyone. I'm not going to go on a rant about bad art or anything like that, this is about assholes with out an open-mind(muchless a mind at all) and/or people who never bothered to do more than a weeks worth of comics. I know there probably isn't a way to weed out the people who aren't serious, or the people who are just there to stir up some shit but Keenspace was full of both. I know that was harsh, but it is all true to an extent. There were few comics that really stood out, I'd name them but you already know who I mean. They were the popular ones that got all the attention. Then there was the average, I like to say I was there, not really noticed much and medium readership, and then the other 60% was people wasting there time. Stick figure comics with stories as difficult to right as the characters were to draw. Stick figure comics are cool if you make them funny, but why bother putting up a comic if the whole intent was for an insie joke with one friend then you update once a month to keep up that dumb joke. Keenspace is quasi-littered with this. As I said before I won't trash art or writing. But I WILL trash people! While I was proud to open up my old members menu and see how many readers stopped by while my comic didn't update, I was also saddened to see that Keenspace has turned into the online comic equivalent of a High School. People acting Holier than tho, ignoring the newbies, etc. I was going to start up "water Street again this January and hope fully catch up all my missing comics(which I still made despite my computer not wanting to help me) but I've realised Keenspace has gotten too over crowded, and with that the attitude has changed. Disagree or agree with me it doesn't matter. I feel bad that I will be seen as an outsider saying all this as well even though I have stopped by weekly and read many comics and read from the forums though I never wrote in. My comic will be made again, but somewhere else, maybe smaller. Maybe when I get there I'll drop by again and see what has changed in Keenspace, hopefully for the better. With this message I want my comic to be taken off of Keenspace, it's been 4 months, and now I'm certain I won't ever update again. I will miss my time here, I didn't really make friends or anything, but I had a good laugh with a few of you, and was jealous of even more of you. Lastly, I know my message sounds bitter and pissed off... it kinda is. I really did miss making my comic, and wanted to come back to it. But now it's just another face in a crowd of some 200 odd comics. Originality can stand out on it's own, but not when everyone is fighting tooth and nail for the same thing.Merry Christmas to all!Sincerely David Rigley of 24 n' a half Water Street

John T · Post by **John T** » Sat Dec 23, 2000 9:01 am

Does that mean that you *aren't* gonna come back, simply because there's 400 other accounts in the crowd? That's not a very good reason. You know that your old buddies would help you get a nice start if you wanted it. You can only be another face in the crowd if you resign yourself to that fate.Yep. We're kickin' it old-school Keenspace-style folks. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif">------------------
John Troutman
The SporkMan Chronicles
<A HREF="http://www.sporkman.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.sporkman.com</A>[This message has been edited by John T (edited 12-23-2000).]

Damonk13 · Post by **Damonk13** » Sat Dec 23, 2000 9:06 am

Ouch!Don't feel that way, dude!There may be a lot of comics here, and there'll likely be a lot more as the days/weeks/months go by, but I still think that there are some very nice, very friendly people around KSpace! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">I've only been around for about two months now, but ever since the beginning, I found that a lot of people were very open, very helpful, very considerate, very funny, etc...I'm not going to deny anything you said in your post, tho -- most, if not just about everything you said is true! There is a lot of posturing and bashing going on here (hell, I probably have done some myself, without realizing it?), but that can be easily ignored and you can find a healthy, friendly sense of community here...In terms of choosing not to return, that's too bad! I *love* reading new comics, trying hard to read as many as I possibly can, even if there is no way i will ever be able to read *all* of the Keenspace comics anytime soon...I always thought that drawing comics was about drawing comics! Sure, everyone (again, including me) would like to get many pageviews, more popularity, etc... human nature, perhaps? But the real reason for drawing comics (well, for me, at least) is to make other people laugh, as well as vent out whatever builds up in my head/heart/spleen/left pinky toe through my foibled attempts at art! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">As for Keenspace being the equivalent of a High School, that's true, too! But at the same time, I find that pretty much any workplace, or group, or social organization will tend to have at least vestiges of the same thing, if not full-blown clone-like similarities... again, human nature?Anywho, I don't even know why I am writing this, except perhaps that I'm a little sorry to hear that you feel this way about KeenSpace, and a whole lot sorry that you don't feel like drawing anymore... In a perfect Damonk world (i.e., silly Quixotic fantasy land), everyone would draw comic strips, play the piano and the trombone (well, maybe not at the same time), doodle in Grad class, write silly poetry, laugh at themselves for being asininely human, and love themselves the more for it!So, all that to say, maybe this is my way of trying to say that, if you'd start drawing again -- because you wanted to -- then , that would hopefully be reward enough? And, not that it should matter to you, I'd go look at your comic, and if it suited my tastes, I'd keep reading it! Heh. Just 'cause I buy Doonesbury and Foxtrot books, but don't buy Dilbert books or Calvin and Hobbes books don't make the last two a bad comic... it's just a matter of preference, right?It all depends on why you draw comics, I guess. So, same should go to your comic, if you ever start it again! And, being the Quixotic dreamer that I am, I hope that you do...Who knows? You may find yourself enjoying it a lot more the second time round! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">------------------
"Woohoo! I FINALLY thought of a witty qu~~
DAMMIT. I can't remember what it was now...
But, man. It was witty. Whoo.
Honest.
...
...
OK.
So I got nothing."
--damonk13
<A HREF="http://framed.keenspace.com/" TARGET=_blank>Framed! The Comic!</A>
(now with Beta-Carotine and new, minty <A HREF="http://www.keenspace.com/cgi-bin/ubb/fo ... LastLogin=" TARGET=_blank>Forum</A>!)

Ryan J. Smith · Post by **Ryan J. Smith** » Sat Dec 23, 2000 9:17 am

My feeling on all this? I still do my comic. People noticed it for the first month, then nobody mentioned it anymore. I haven't gotten any posts from any new people on my message board in months. And most new people that do arrive only post once, and never come back. But now I don't even get a "your comic is cool", or even a "Your comic sucks." ....
SOMEBODY POST ON MY MESSAGE BOARD!------------------
Ryan J. Smith: the Poster Child for Paxil
<A HREF="http://www.ronnieraccoon.com" TARGET=_blank>The Adventures of Ronnie Raccoon</A>[This message has been edited by Ryan J. Smith (edited 12-23-2000).][This message has been edited by Ryan J. Smith (edited 12-23-2000).]

John T · Post by **John T** » Sat Dec 23, 2000 9:18 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by damonk13:
Who knows? You may find yourself enjoying it a lot more the second time round! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin ... TE>He's right, you know. There's a whole new group of idiots to have fun with now! They aren't all bad eggs. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif">------------------
John Troutman
The SporkMan Chronicles
<A HREF="http://www.sporkman.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.sporkman.com</A>

SuperJoe · Post by **SuperJoe** » Sat Dec 23, 2000 10:13 am

Your comic is cool.
I'm going to post that on your message board now.------------------
What 'cho talkin' 'bout Captian Kirk?
I'm a doctor, not a rodeo clown!
<A HREF="http://jwalkin.keenspace.com/" TARGET=_blank>J-Walkin'</A> refreshes your mouth, and <A HREF="http://comicollage.keenspace.com/" TARGET=_blank>Comicollage</A> leaves a minty after taste.