CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby VeryCuddlyCornpone on Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:14 am

McDuffies wrote:Man sometimes those spams really make me giggle. Here's one from Get-Togethers:

Can i post many advertising text and links here? For free? Many links...
But if i can't - simply drop this posting and i delete your site from our database. Internet must be clean, right?
Thanks.


:lol: So polite! If only more spammers were so considerate!
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby McDuffies on Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:26 pm

I almost wanted to keep him.
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby Kisai on Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:51 pm

McDuffies wrote:
Kisai wrote:I modify the password field so that it's always broken, and then change the CG header to "correct it", thus breaking every bot that can't process javascript.

What does a user have to do to get past that protection?

Use a real web browser and not block ads. The irony here is that I could simply get Chris to name the PW ad a specific way and have a script look for it to clean the password field. No ads shown, no login. Everyone wins. I could do this right now with the newsbox actually, but people blocking ads don't usually block CG's newsbox. (adblocks default settings are set to asshole mode, which blocks PW.)


If the best way to fight spam is more mods then what's the problem? People are worried they'd have to spend lots of time deleting stuff? Why not make a McDuffies sidekick squad of 2-3 more mods that would at least take a portion of work off his paws.

Actually more admins. There are mods, but they can't delete or ban a user. They can only delete particular posts, which is time-consuming and doesn't do much, as the spam account just keeps posting. Admins can get rid of a spammer in a few clicks, but they can also do more damage (like, I guess, accidentally erasing a real poster). But if I can do it, it can't be that hard.


I'm hesitant to promote people to admin if they haven't been here since like... 2005, mainly because the cliff everyone fell off of was in 2008 along with the downturn in the economy. So 3 years after, are people coming back or are there new people as active as old people? The other issue with the admin privilege is that it also enables some features in the siteadmin that you're not supposed to have like approving pogs/chans. Though I suppose if nobody is doing that either, there's little harm. McDuffies actually just has access to part of the admin panel without access to the entire admin system, and giving others access to the ban system is do-able if you know what you're doing. But like I said before, you can easily ban everyone with an incorrect ban entry. That then requires someone with full admin access to erase it from the ban list.

I don't use twitter either but I imagine we could post daily recommendations of interesting updates. And not just from CG because that would lead to repetitive plugs of the same comics which would annoy people. We could also point to hot discussions here "Spiderman marries the Thing?! http:/forums.comicgenesis.com/viewtopic etc"

Yeah, something like that. News from CG (not just from forums, entire site) would be most important, but news from elsewhere in webcomics would make the thing complete and more interesting to others. A thread would be nice, where people could come to announce news about their comic, which would then be carried to twitter.


The thing with Twitter is that it's primarily used to go "this is what I'm doing" or "this is what I find interesting", so unless you're already high profile, promoting your site through it is a waste of time unless you actually like to use twitter.

The keenspot sites, are mostly promoted via RSS and Twitter, and generally when the rss feed breaks people get uppity about it. I don't use RSS because that's not really how I follow sites. Everything I follow is from memory. If I can't commit it to memory then it's not interesting enough. Forum/blog postings are thus only found when linked via twitter or the comic itself.
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby spoonyliger on Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:23 pm

Kisai wrote:I'm hesitant to promote people to admin if they haven't been here since like... 2005, mainly because the cliff everyone fell off of was in 2008 along with the downturn in the economy. So 3 years after, are people coming back or are there new people as active as old people? The other issue with the admin privilege is that it also enables some features in the siteadmin that you're not supposed to have like approving pogs/chans.


Heheh, I'd go and approve my chan right away. Funny thing is 2008 was when I submitted it - ironic, no?

Kisai wrote:(...)giving others access to the ban system is do-able if you know what you're doing. But like I said before, you can easily ban everyone with an incorrect ban entry. That then requires someone with full admin access to erase it from the ban list.

If I had the power, I would just start with any SPAM posters I'd come across. And then, as I'd gradually get more used to the banning system, I'd consider taking care of real, human posters who just aren't following posting rules/flamming. I... I've been yelled at and banned a few times before enough to know what proper forum behavior should be like.

Kisai wrote:I don't use RSS because that's not really how I follow sites. Everything I follow is from memory. If I can't commit it to memory then it's not interesting enough. Forum/blog postings are thus only found when linked via twitter or the comic itself.


I've never familiarized myself with the RSS system so I've always just looked at it like "Oh, so it just gives you site updates? If I care enough about a website I'll just go and check it out myself, I'm not that lazy." But I can see how it may be useful to some people. I'm guessing this specially goes to people who check-out tons of sites everyday and it's harder for them to remember which sites they haven't checked or not... right?

In terms of Twitter? I tried it... didn't light a spark for me. Maybe cuz I already had facebook and I feel like Twitter is just a facebook wannabe. Nevertheless, a lot of people use it.

We just don't know how these things play with people who read webcomics.

I was thinking today actually, how about turn ComicGenesis into, not just a webcomic experience, but also a social expereince... at least within whatever's left of the the Webcomic reader/artist community. Here's some of my ideas:
- Allow users to have an actual ComicGenesis.com (not just forums) account where they have Favorite lists, Buddy lists and even their own rateable Picture albums, among other features.
- With their CG account, they are also able to post in the CG forums without having to log in to a separate account. If they don't like forums...
- Add a status feature. Seems like everyone's doing it these days, so why shouldn't we. And if we can, we could even try to come-up with an innovative way to post status (optional). Why not in comic strip format? In fact, a friend of mine even has a t-shirt where she can write a status on it. A t-shirt people!
- You mentioned before about how would a new website design of the front page work and still keep the Gen-chan and POG system going. As far Gen-chans? I think it doesn't matter. If no one really cares enough to update Gen-chans today, then why would you still care tomorrow? If anything, we could at least come up with a new Gen-chan system and people could submit new designs too. And POGs? I think those are easy to keep. Since they're small, they can be arranged in however way to fit the new design. In fact, I think they'd attract more attention if they were larger.
- The new front page would display:
The logo.
A Gen-chan.
Instead of randomly selected POGs, a list of recently updated comics with their POGs next to the titles and a short blurb or date of update.
A numbered list of Top Viewed comics and another one with Highest Rated comics (Rating system), again with each comic's respective POG image next to it.
The Twitter Feed?
- The Wiki should be just for Help information. I never updated my comic's wiki just because I already have an About page in my site.
- Hey. What about that CG Fighter game? I mean, I tried it in '08 and it didn't work for me. Maybe we could get someone to rework it and implement a Points system to the website too. Whereas you get Fighter points for reading comics (maybe you have to stay in each page for at least 5 seconds to get a point), and you can use those points to buy new characters and level them up. And maybe even buy equipment or abilities.
- I know. Who's gonna do all that, right?
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby VeryCuddlyCornpone on Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:47 pm

spoonyliger wrote:- I know. Who's gonna do all that, right?


Bingo.
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby spoonyliger on Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:17 pm

VeryCuddlyCornpone wrote:
spoonyliger wrote:- I know. Who's gonna do all that, right?


Bingo.

Ugh, this is depressing me. I'm just gonna finish my second part of my War jam contribution and that's it.
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby McDuffies on Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:03 am

Kisai wrote:I'm hesitant to promote people to admin if they haven't been here since like... 2005, mainly because the cliff everyone fell off of was in 2008 along with the downturn in the economy. So 3 years after, are people coming back or are there new people as active as old people? The other issue with the admin privilege is that it also enables some features in the siteadmin that you're not supposed to have like approving pogs/chans. Though I suppose if nobody is doing that either, there's little harm. McDuffies actually just has access to part of the admin panel without access to the entire admin system, and giving others access to the ban system is do-able if you know what you're doing. But like I said before, you can easily ban everyone with an incorrect ban entry. That then requires someone with full admin access to erase it from the ban list.


There are people from back in 2005 posting but the problem is, most of them do it sporadically, post for a while then dissapear for some time then return... Phactorri is usually around here somewhere I think but I don't know if he'd want it. Someone help me remember others.
VeruCuddlyCornpone seems like a pretty good candidate. But if you're hesitant maybe you can make her a mod for start?
You can let me approve pogs and chans if that's doable. Folks who used to do it are mostly away.

The keenspot sites, are mostly promoted via RSS and Twitter, and generally when the rss feed breaks people get uppity about it. I don't use RSS because that's not really how I follow sites. Everything I follow is from memory. If I can't commit it to memory then it's not interesting enough. Forum/blog postings are thus only found when linked via twitter or the comic itself.

I do know a lot of people who use rss, bloglines and stuff for following their comics.

If I had the power, I would just start with any SPAM posters I'd come across. And then, as I'd gradually get more used to the banning system, I'd consider taking care of real, human posters who just aren't following posting rules/flamming. I... I've been yelled at and banned a few times before enough to know what proper forum behavior should be like.

I haven't seen a need to ban someone for reasons other for spamming since I've been able to ban. This place has always been well self-moderated and when activity is low there's even less trolling and stuff than usual.
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby McDuffies on Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:43 am

By the way Kisai, can you get rid of this user for me?
It's only posting in "Hosted communities", I always prune the user, but I can't get it's IP because I don't have mod privileges there, so it comes back every day with the new account and a dozen new posts.
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby robotthepirate on Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:01 am

Kisai wrote:I'm hesitant to promote people to admin if they haven't been here since like... 2005, mainly because the cliff everyone fell off of was in 2008 along with the downturn in the economy.


Gutted that my original account only goes back to 2006. Lol.

spoonyliger wrote:Stuff


That pretty much would involve re-inventing the whole of the website. Also a lot of it could be covered by hosting your comic on Deviant (statuses, friends lists ect.).
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby Laemkral on Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:51 pm

McDuffies wrote:There are people from back in 2005 posting but the problem is, most of them do it sporadically, post for a while then dissapear for some time then return... Phactorri is usually around here somewhere I think but I don't know if he'd want it. Someone help me remember others.


HIIIIIII!!!!!!!!!!!!! Might be my imagination, but I could have sworn I've offered my services before. I may not post everyday, but I generally get bored at work and tend to check in every day. I am obviously not a long term solution because a) I don't do comics anymore b) I have a career that doesn't pertain to the art industry c) I don't remember a damn thing about siteadmin and really don't want to learn. But, I am more than happy to assist in anti-spam protection and forums administration support. If you have additional duties to task me with, I'll probably do them too (up to a point).

Unless I get selected for Aide-de-Camp in which case...I may straight up vanish for a year. Then you just revoke my admin role and move on to a plan C (for Cornpone)
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby spoonyliger on Fri Aug 12, 2011 2:56 pm

robotthepirate wrote:
That pretty much would involve re-inventing the whole of the website. Also a lot of it could be covered by hosting your comic on Deviant (statuses, friends lists ect.).
I'm not too fond of uploading a lot of comic book pages to DeviantART. It orders the pages in a weird way. I like ComicGenesis.

EDIT: I'd like to congratulate Cuddly on the excellent work she's doing in the Help forums. You deserve some cake!
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby Kisai on Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:23 pm

spoonyliger wrote:
Kisai wrote:I'm hesitant to promote people to admin if they haven't been here since like... 2005, mainly because the cliff everyone fell off of was in 2008 along with the downturn in the economy. So 3 years after, are people coming back or are there new people as active as old people? The other issue with the admin privilege is that it also enables some features in the siteadmin that you're not supposed to have like approving pogs/chans.


Heheh, I'd go and approve my chan right away. Funny thing is 2008 was when I submitted it - ironic, no?

I can only see back to 2008-11-28, mainly because none of the chans have been approved, and only one new one has been uploaded in the last 12 months.

If I had the power, I would just start with any SPAM posters I'd come across. And then, as I'd gradually get more used to the banning system, I'd consider taking care of real, human posters who just aren't following posting rules/flamming. I... I've been yelled at and banned a few times before enough to know what proper forum behavior should be like.


That's not the golden rule here. The golden rule is that IP bans are explicitly for spammer bans. Everyone else is reasonable or will get bored.

I've never familiarized myself with the RSS system so I've always just looked at it like "Oh, so it just gives you site updates? If I care enough about a website I'll just go and check it out myself, I'm not that lazy." But I can see how it may be useful to some people. I'm guessing this specially goes to people who check-out tons of sites everyday and it's harder for them to remember which sites they haven't checked or not... right?

In terms of Twitter? I tried it... didn't light a spark for me. Maybe cuz I already had facebook and I feel like Twitter is just a facebook wannabe. Nevertheless, a lot of people use it.


They're not the same. Twitter is like "This is what is cool right now" where as Facebook is "I'm doing this right now and I think everyone else needs to know." So Twitter is more like a microblog/news system, where as Facebook is a private pissing contest.

We just don't know how these things play with people who read webcomics.

I was thinking today actually, how about turn ComicGenesis into, not just a webcomic experience, but also a social expereince... at least within whatever's left of the the Webcomic reader/artist community. Here's some of my ideas:

Allow me to shoot them down...
- Allow users to have an actual ComicGenesis.com (not just forums) account where they have Favorite lists, Buddy lists and even their own rateable Picture albums, among other features.

Redundant with Skype,msn,twitter,facebook,Google+

- With their CG account, they are also able to post in the CG forums without having to log in to a separate account. If they don't like forums...

I think you failed to notice that the reason there are two accounts is because some people just want to upload their comics via FTP and not deal with anything else. The forums account is the one-account-to-rule-them-all. You can add all your ftp accounts to the same forum account, not vice versa (though the database has this support.) Being able to upload comics via the web interface only exists so that other people can be given access to a comic for doing jams. There is direct support for this (jam comic) but didn't see any use after I set it up, so I don't know if anyone still uses it.


- Add a status feature. Seems like everyone's doing it these days, so why shouldn't we. And if we can, we could even try to come-up with an innovative way to post status (optional). Why not in comic strip format? In fact, a friend of mine even has a t-shirt where she can write a status on it. A t-shirt people!

The forums have this.

- You mentioned before about how would a new website design of the front page work and still keep the Gen-chan and POG system going. As far Gen-chans? I think it doesn't matter. If no one really cares enough to update Gen-chans today, then why would you still care tomorrow? If anything, we could at least come up with a new Gen-chan system and people could submit new designs too. And POGs? I think those are easy to keep. Since they're small, they can be arranged in however way to fit the new design. In fact, I think they'd attract more attention if they were larger.


I think you missed why I mentioned it. Some people have ditched their comics and moved on to better things. For those the genchans still cycle. The pogs however only cycle for active comics. If we do a new front page, we have to throw away all the existing work.

- The new front page would display:
The logo.
A Gen-chan.
Instead of randomly selected POGs, a list of recently updated comics with their POGs next to the titles and a short blurb or date of update.

We don't do this because it generates large pages, and most comics update at midnight EST or PST, so it's unreasonable to have one page with 1000 comics on it. If anything people would just glue themselves on top by constantly manually updating their comic.

Besides, lookup "Acme" and "Ajax", the reason people picked company names was so they'd be at the top of directories that are alphabetically sorted. This problem also exists here:
a3d
aaa
aaaaa
aacmaw
aarmity
aaron
aatg
abaddon
abakerdnd


A numbered list of Top Viewed comics and another one with Highest Rated comics (Rating system), again with each comic's respective POG image next to it.


That exists. Not in that forum, but that actually predates the front page (It first existed as "The Guide".)
http://www.comicgenesis.com/wrank.php

Unfortunately, the data stopped updating on 2010-01-10. I suppose this might be fixable, but it's a bit more work. I have to figure out what Kelly left out in the autokeen replacement, because a lot of these internal tracking mechanisms were either tied to webalizer or were tied to the ad/newsbox/header.

The Twitter Feed?
- The Wiki should be just for Help information. I never updated my comic's wiki just because I already have an About page in my site.


The Wiki is/was supposed to be for your readers to update if they felt it was important enough, there's enough webcomics that have dated information. Look at megatokyo, 10+ years on the web and still no cast page.

- Hey. What about that CG Fighter game? I mean, I tried it in '08 and it didn't work for me. Maybe we could get someone to rework it and implement a Points system to the website too. Whereas you get Fighter points for reading comics (maybe you have to stay in each page for at least 5 seconds to get a point), and you can use those points to buy new characters and level them up. And maybe even buy equipment or abilities.
- I know. Who's gonna do all that, right?

Ask the person who was writing it.
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby VeryCuddlyCornpone on Sun Aug 14, 2011 8:28 am

spoonyliger wrote:EDIT: I'd like to congratulate Cuddly on the excellent work she's doing in the Help forums. You deserve some cake!


Thanks, friend. Just doing what I can :)
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby peterabnny on Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:08 pm

robotthepirate wrote:
I like forums. They have a community aspect that social networking doesn't get.
Social networking works on everyone being connected by the 6 degrees of separation rule, which can be useful for advertising if you can make waves that big but often you just get lost in the crowd. Forums just say "Here we will collect people of a similar ilk" and everyone talks to everyone.


That's pretty much me, too. By now, I pretty much consider CG a social hangout anymore, not a place to showcase art. Talk about it, sure. But not to promote it.

I see Spoonyliger and McDuffies coming up with a lot of ideas, and Kisai shooting them down one by one. In the interests of fair play, Kisai should now come up with ideas to help CG Forums, and Spoony and Duffies can shoot them down.
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby Terotrous on Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:27 pm

Kisai wrote:I can only see back to 2008-11-28, mainly because none of the chans have been approved, and only one new one has been uploaded in the last 12 months.

Does the committee to approve them even still exist? I haven't seen Keffria around here in ages, and Joel only shows up once in a blue moon.


Kisai wrote:
A numbered list of Top Viewed comics and another one with Highest Rated comics (Rating system), again with each comic's respective POG image next to it.


That exists. Not in that forum, but that actually predates the front page (It first existed as "The Guide".)
http://www.comicgenesis.com/wrank.php

Unfortunately, the data stopped updating on 2010-01-10. I suppose this might be fixable, but it's a bit more work. I have to figure out what Kelly left out in the autokeen replacement, because a lot of these internal tracking mechanisms were either tied to webalizer or were tied to the ad/newsbox/header.

I can't figure out how to get this to display data. What do I have to search for?

Also, the guide hasn't updated in like 2 years. Do you think we could get those to update again?
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby Mo on Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:29 am

Terotrous wrote:
Kisai wrote:I can only see back to 2008-11-28, mainly because none of the chans have been approved, and only one new one has been uploaded in the last 12 months.

Does the committee to approve them even still exist? I haven't seen Keffria around here in ages, and Joel only shows up once in a blue moon.

This is not the committee you're looking for. :shifty:

Well, since I'm sort of back and have even started drawing comics again, I'll try to make some time tonight to see if I can still log in to view the chans and pogs and see if I can bring that part of CG up to date. I've completely forgotten login details and how to do it, but I should still have all the details somewhere.

This is not a promise, but look, I'll try. :) At least the pogs are easy to do, however for the chans I would need at least one, better yet two other persons because we used to vote on whether chans were "good enough" to approve them, and every chan needed at least 2 votes to get through. So I can't do that on my own. Of course, if a chan has serious design flaws, or doesn't work on the website because the template has been altered by the user, those I can disapprove by myself easily. it's when it comes to the question of quality and taste that you wouldn't want me to run things on my own, I think. :twisted:

Edit: How is it I missed my 5000th post anniversary? Goddammit, I'm the worst postwhore ever.

Superedit: I've had a look and it looks like someone, I assume Kisai, has taken care of most of the pogs already. There are a few I'll check tonight and approve or delete. There are over 20 genchans that haven't been approved yet... I wish Keff and Joel were around. :(
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby VeryCuddlyCornpone on Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:45 am

Mo wrote:Edit: How is it I missed my 5000th post anniversary? Goddammit, I'm the worst postwhore ever.


If it's any consolation, I missed my 1234th post. Now I have to wait 11111 more posts until I can bask in orderly numerical glory. :lol:
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby Phact0rri on Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:20 pm

I try to be around, but I can easily forget for a week sometimes, depending when I get busy... which is all to frequent.
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Re: CG Forums Future - How can we help it?

Postby robotthepirate on Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:24 pm

Mo wrote:Superedit: I've had a look and it looks like someone, I assume Kisai, has taken care of most of the pogs already. There are a few I'll check tonight and approve or delete. There are over 20 genchans that haven't been approved yet... I wish Keff and Joel were around. :(


Yay! POG and Newsbox approved! Now all I wish I'd had a banner ready too.

How do they work anyway? I'm sick of seeing that unicorn one.

And I'll actually have to update before there'll be a chance of seeing my POG, haiti are tricky to get out of.
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P.S. I'm sick of it too.

Postby Cope on Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:57 pm

robotthepirate wrote: Now all I wish I'd had a banner ready too.

How do they work anyway? I'm sick of seeing that unicorn one.

Those are paid ads.
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Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 8:37 pm
Location: Masked man of mystery

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