Free Comic Book Day 2007

For discussions, announcements, non-technical questions and anything else comics-related or otherwise that doesn't fit in any of the other categories.
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Keffria
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Post by Keffria »

rkolter wrote:Depends on your goal.

If you want to just make the best possible comic book, then yes - you pick only the best artists out of ComicGenesis.

If you want to showcase what is available at ComicGenesis, then you should pick from the entire artistic pool.
I'm sorry, but this is just silly. Are you really saying that we WANT to showcase someone's crappy MSPaint sprite-rips or over-sized lopsided pencil drawings? CG has a horrible reputation within the webcomicking community because of the multitude of eye-bleedingly horrible comics it hosts. This reputation is not going to change without quality-control, and to allow poor-quality comics into a sampler just because they're on CG is pointless circle-jerkery. Just as we don't allow just anyone to, say, upload a Genchan for display on the main page, so should we put tighter restrictions on our samplers. Hell, if it means my work won't end up in a future book, who am I to complain? It'd motivate me to get better and submit to the next year's.

Why not put out a sampler that shows people that we really do have some talented artists? As a potential webcomic artist, wouldn't it be inspiring to you, to know that you, too, can be a part of a hosting service that displays such spectacular work?

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Post by Ataraxia »

Keffria wrote:
rkolter wrote:If you want to showcase what is available at ComicGenesis, then you should pick from the entire artistic pool.
I'm sorry, but this is just silly. Are you really saying that we WANT to showcase someone's crappy MSPaint sprite-rips or over-sized lopsided pencil drawings?
This isn't so black and white. We certainly need a firm editorial hand, but at the same time the sampler should be representative of what's hosted here. Otherwise what's the point? It would cease to be a CG book and instead be an advertisement for 5 or 6 of our most popular strips. The FCBD book should capture something of the ComicGenesis experience... I dunno exactly what that entails, but it should definitely be there.

One problem is that CG is a hosting service, not a collective, so the only thing many of our strips have in common is the url. Maybe next year we can have all artists do a page on the theme "Get in the Box". There's an idea- instead of a mega-crossover, how about give all the artists a common theme to work with? That would provide a certain coherence to the book.

Personally, I like amateur/underground/alternative comics. I'd much rather read through a collection of Cynicalman strips than the latest superhero crap from Marvel/DC (no offense to the handful of good superhero titles). Even if I wasn't hosted here, the CG FCBD book is one I'd probably pick up just because of all the weird and wonderful things in it. That said, you do need a certain amount of quality control. If I picked up the book, flipped to a random page, and saw drawings that wouldn't even cut it as minicomics I'd probably pick up something else.

Hey, at least we were received better than KeenSpace. My copy of the book hasn't arrived yet; I'll post my thoughts when it does, and see if it lives up to expectations.
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Post by Ataraxia »

The FCBD package was waiting in the mailbox when I arrived home today. Wahoo! Sorry to all the people in North America who haven't received their comics yet...

This collection rocks, just as I thought it would. Everybody did a great job. That said, I do have some criticisms. If you think you may be offended then please skip the rest of this post.

I'll go through the book page by page. I'd be interested in reading if anyone else would like to do this as well.

Tales of the Traveling Gnome has gorgeous art and a beautiful layout, but I feel that the print version suffers from a lack of contrast. Maybe if the sampler were printed on whiter paper this would be less of a problem. Anyhow, it's not a big deal, the two pages still look great.

I like the 8:1 page a lot but I wonder if it would look better with the title at the bottom.

The FAUB page came out very well, I think. It's a bit too ad-like though.

I love Aldus Maycombe, but there's something about the FCBD pages that doesn't sit right with me. The layout feels too busy. The art itself is fantastic.

The Head Doctor Productions page is just perfect. Absolutely perfect. I've been meaning to link HDP from AT for a while now; I should take this chance to get around to it.

I think the hatching on the Ugly Girl page is a bit too close for print; too much of it came out looking black.

The End of Things pages came out nice. I also liked the Astorauth and Imo pages.

I felt that the Doppies pages, like the TotTG pages, didn't have enough contrast. I think the contest idea is brilliant.

I love the Phil Likes Tacos page. If I saw that page while flipping through this comic, I would definitely have to pick it up. It looks really nice in print. One problem is that the ending of the comic isn't as funny as the penultimate bit.

The Treading Ground page came out fine. Nice origin story.

Claude's pages are fantastic. There's a great sense of fun. I haven't read his comic before but now I'll have to give it a try.

The Strange Happenings page looks like a small comic blown up to fill an entire page... which I guess it is. The text is large and the inking is thick. Maybe Colin could've used several strips in newspaper size rather than one big one.

I hate to say this (because Pimpette and Legostar could kill me with a thought) but the Shenanigan page disappointed me. I didn't feel any comic tension between the two characters. There was no rhythm going on. I did like the ducks, though... vicious little creatures.

I like the art on the Cortland page, but the story didn't interest me... maybe because as an English major, it seemed all too familiar.

My first thought upon seeing the Undead Friend page was TEXT EXPLOSION. Yes, that phrase was in all caps in my head. Anyhow, after I took the time to read it, I laughed. The layout could have been better.

The SuperFreaks page looks very nice. Like FAUB, it's a bit too much like an ad.

The two Vesteria pages seem big and empty. There's no more than one page of material there. The art is nice, but like Strange Happenings it seems to be printed larger than it should be.

I didn't care for the story on The Foxfire Chronicles page; there's nothing there to show why this story is different from generic SF adventure. That was also a problem with many of the fantasy comics in the collection. The art is very good, though.

I liked the Man Who Hates Fun page, but the art seems like it didn't reproduce well. TMWHF is another webcomic I haven't read yet but think I should.

The Distant Eras page really lacks contrast. The pictures are all greyed out. It also appears to have been cut off at the top and bottom.

I didn't care much for the Antics page when I saw it online, but it looks much better to me in printed form. I like the way everyone glows. The story sounds very risque, which I'm sure will generate lots of hits.

The Inhumation page is well drawn and funny, but like the Vesteria page it seems like one page worth of material stretched out to cover two pages. I'm also sorry that the "Side of Fried" was edited out. I liked that.

The SPQR Blues page is beautiful but too crowded. I love Klio's art, as I think I've said several times before. I like the side sequence with the artist, and the dramatis personae at the top.

I think Reasoned Cognition page looks better in print than it did online. Make of that what you will. :o

The Green Avenger pages could have used a better background.

Hoo boy... the Ataraxia Theatre page. It's going to be a long list of things I dislike here. First off, the comic reads like an ad... I don't like that, and would change it if I had my time back. The text is too small. The page is a sequence of talking heads. It's full of words and there's nothing visual to really grab the reader's attention. The patterned background on top and flat grey on bottom are poor substitutes for actual scenery. The first seven panels are funny but the last three peter out. I could also say that the art isn't as good as the other contributors to the book but I'm sure all of us feel the same way (about our respective pages). On the plus side, I think it did reproduce well.

The Avernyght pages need more contrast. They printed dark and muddy. The text is a bit hard to read.

The Tales of Pylea page is beautiful. More than that, it really whips the Mookie's ass. Unfortunately it doesn't let the reader know what the story is about, other than that it involves people hitting each other. Still, good art counts for a lot, the pacing of the page is good, and this may well prove to be a wise advertising strategy.

...

So these are my thoughts. I hope I don't sound too negative- as I said at the beginning, I really like the FCBDB and think everyone did a great job. Still, as long as we're talking about how to improve the book for next year, it's best to look at things critically.

Any chance of someone slipping The Neko a copy of the book? :wink:
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Post by Dr Legostar »

Shishio wrote:I have the digital copy now, just waiting for an OK from Cortland, and I will post it.

nooo! we didn't want the shenanigan thing to be seen anywhere online! just in the fcbd book!
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Post by Robin Pierce »

actually I was quite annoyed about the darkness, because if I had known everything'd come out so incredibly dark, I woulda lightened up the colours quite a bit.

Coulda been an oversight on my part but did we know they'd be printed on gray-ish paper?

also - a big part of FCBD is advertising. This shouldn't be surprising for anyone. If you want to advertise comicgenesis as a whole, then the idea is to choose content that's artistically sound.
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Post by Vorticus »

legostargalactica wrote:
Shishio wrote:I have the digital copy now, just waiting for an OK from Cortland, and I will post it.

nooo! we didn't want the shenanigan thing to be seen anywhere online! just in the fcbd book!
I'm never going to get to see it, am I?

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Post by Dr Legostar »

Vorticus wrote:
legostargalactica wrote:
Shishio wrote:I have the digital copy now, just waiting for an OK from Cortland, and I will post it.

nooo! we didn't want the shenanigan thing to be seen anywhere online! just in the fcbd book!
I'm never going to get to see it, am I?
i'll give you one of the copies i got.
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Post by Yeahduff »

pierce studios wrote:actually I was quite annoyed about the darkness, because if I had known everything'd come out so incredibly dark, I woulda lightened up the colours quite a bit.

Coulda been an oversight on my part but did we know they'd be printed on gray-ish paper?

also - a big part of FCBD is advertising. This shouldn't be surprising for anyone. If you want to advertise comicgenesis as a whole, then the idea is to choose content that's artistically sound.
It's been so long since I've been in print that I forgot this, but yeah, always assume it'll look darker on the page. We should keep that in mind for next time.
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Post by Shishio »

legostargalactica wrote:nooo! we didn't want the shenanigan thing to be seen anywhere online! just in the fcbd book!
You know, it is a simple matter to remove that page.
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Post by Nanda »

ataraxia wrote:I think the hatching on the Ugly Girl page is a bit too close for print; too much of it came out looking black.
Considering I've never really done it before, this is not at all offensive or surprising to me. I really need some training in black and white comics.

Fortunately, I live with the guy who's page was "just perfect," so all hope is not lost. :wink:
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Post by Pimpette »

Thanks for the input ataraxia. Image
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legostargalactica wrote:
Shishio wrote:I have the digital copy now, just waiting for an OK from Cortland, and I will post it.
nooo! we didn't want the shenanigan thing to be seen anywhere online! just in the fcbd book!
Technically, this way, it's still IN the FCBD book, though.
But... that's just me saying.
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Post by CaptainClaude »

ataraxia wrote:Claude's pages are fantastic. There's a great sense of fun. I haven't read his comic before but now I'll have to give it a try.
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Post by Garneta »

ataraxia wrote: The Distant Eras page really lacks contrast. The pictures are all greyed out. It also appears to have been cut off at the top and bottom.
I thought so too...I really don't know how to color in grayscale, so I just colored and shaded it normally, then changed it afterward. It looked presentable when I sent it in, but after seeing everyone elses, I didn't care for the look of it much. Quite a difference from the actual comic, I think.

As for the cutting off...I didn't even notice before I sent it in that I'd somehow missed the border at the top and bottom. XD

My own thoughts on it: 1: I wish that I hadn't procrastinated so much, and I also wish that I'd been more creative with the layout.
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Post by Dr Legostar »

Pimpette wrote:Thanks for the input ataraxia. Image
Still wiggling and waiting on my copies. Whee!
legostargalactica wrote:
Shishio wrote:I have the digital copy now, just waiting for an OK from Cortland, and I will post it.
nooo! we didn't want the shenanigan thing to be seen anywhere online! just in the fcbd book!
Technically, this way, it's still IN the FCBD book, though.
But... that's just me saying.
yeah, you're kinda correct on that, i think i'm just being a weenie.

As for Ataraxia's review, somehow i missed seeing it when it was originally posted. I have to agree, but it's what happens when you've got an unestablished main character and a one shot superhero and only one page to work with. Next year it shall be better!
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Post by Ryuko »

It wouldn't look very different at all if all the comics had been transferred into bitmap format before they were put into tiff format. Then the shades would stay true.
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Post by Tenma »

I did mine in full color just like all my other comics, and then just converted it to grayscale with no other adjustments. I have no complaints about the way it came out.
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Post by Kisai »

Keffria wrote:
rkolter wrote:Depends on your goal.

If you want to just make the best possible comic book, then yes - you pick only the best artists out of ComicGenesis.

If you want to showcase what is available at ComicGenesis, then you should pick from the entire artistic pool.
I'm sorry, but this is just silly. Are you really saying that we WANT to showcase someone's crappy MSPaint sprite-rips or over-sized lopsided pencil drawings? CG has a horrible reputation within the webcomicking community because of the multitude of eye-bleedingly horrible comics it hosts. This reputation is not going to change without quality-control, and to allow poor-quality comics into a sampler just because they're on CG is pointless circle-jerkery. Just as we don't allow just anyone to, say, upload a Genchan for display on the main page, so should we put tighter restrictions on our samplers. Hell, if it means my work won't end up in a future book, who am I to complain? It'd motivate me to get better and submit to the next year's.

Why not put out a sampler that shows people that we really do have some talented artists? As a potential webcomic artist, wouldn't it be inspiring to you, to know that you, too, can be a part of a hosting service that displays such spectacular work?
IMO, and only my opinion, I would NOT like these things to happen:

- new artists getting in the book, and going on hiatus before the book is ever released
- poor artists getting in the book, which gives their pages an ugly polish and speaks poorly of the community

In previous FCBD books, we had -anyone-, and they had to pay for it, so if someone had a incredable comic or and incredably bad comic, it was the same result, they got in. Unfortunately the proverb of 'a few bad apples spoils the lot' applies. In only the most recent one did a quality control get used.

Like the genchan on the front page, by implimenting at least a few requirements, we can have something that looks more professional. We should look at what did not work in this FCBD and previous FCBD issues and apply rules so that the next one has few or none of those issues.

I haven't seen any of the FCBD's to be honest. I've always had to work on those days. I have seen some of before-print versions of some pages. And here's at least some expectations:
- No 'pencil only' drawings, print, especially the greyish newsprint that has been used is not white, and pencils are not black. So at the very least it has to be a scanned inked drawing.
- No 'full color', the target print is black and 'white', but not bright white, a greyish white, so this requires halving the greyscale depth or going black and white only. Most color drawings, when converted to greyscale will be too dark, even some of the keenspot stuff that was printed suffers from 'too dark' on account of it being greyscaled from full color. The artist should provide a high contrast greyscale version of the comic.
- Minimum font sizes, or hand-written font size. If it's illegible then it doesn't work. At a 300-600dpi, even a 12 point font should be legible.

Basic rule, take your artwork, photocopy it on a black and white printer, if it's too dark you will not be able to read it. If it's too light it won't show up. This was actually the test I used at a previous job for printing a newsletter with photos.

That covers the technical aspects, but there are also visual quality aspects that are subjective.
- Do we want to restrict art that goes in FCBD to certain styles? Photo, 3D rendering and sprites don't exactly work on [black and white] print. Most everything else does.
- Do we want to limit content to certain censorship levels? Themes?

Do we want to have a FCBD committee like we have a genchan committee?

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Post by McDuffies »

Kisai wrote:In previous FCBD books, we had -anyone-, and they had to pay for it, so if someone had a incredable comic or and incredably bad comic, it was the same result, they got in. Unfortunately the proverb of 'a few bad apples spoils the lot' applies. In only the most recent one did a quality control get used.
I was always surprised at how many people were willing to spit out 50 bucks to have their art printed while having art almost on stickfigure level. And there were always a lot of others that were striking you as very amateurish for one or the other reason. From books I saw, bad examples seemed to be in majority over the representative ones. Good part of the books were samples of Keenspot comics, which surprisingly had the same rate or unrepresentative/representative pages.

Middle ground sounds like a good idea: best works will speak that there are top comics on CG. Examples that are less than stelar will speak that they aren't all perfect, but even those less perfect have something about them. Basically, diversity is the main asset of CG for readers, anyone can find something to their liking in there, and by all means if someone out there likes stick-figure comics, then find a stick-figure comic with good script and style, and stick it right there next to Humbug's page. Well, maybe not right next to her... but a few pages back or forth...
Remember, representative isn't always conventionally eyepleasing. If you ask me, you could easily put a few strips of "Roughies" right in there. It's not a perfect art in conventional sence, but it is art that has some air of professionalism, and you could always find strips that are intriguing enough and pull reader in to see more. Much better effect than a perfectly rendered hyper-realistic art of *yawn* a mage performing a complicated spell that destroys forces of darkness.
Anyways, that would also mean not to fill the book with fantasy comics, or with manga comics or with gaming comics or wacky roommates comics or humor comics or drama comics. Any type of comic prevailing might give an image of CG as a host specialising for that sort of comics, which might drive away a lot of readers who otherwise would find interesting things on CG.
In short, you need one heck of an editor.

Incidentally, I could submit this for the next time:

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Post by Ataraxia »

yeahduff wrote:It's been so long since I've been in print that I forgot this, but yeah, always assume it'll look darker on the page. We should keep that in mind for next time.
I agree. Kisai's idea of doing a photocopy test is good; next time, contributors should be reminded to do that.
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Kisai wrote:IMO, and only my opinion, I would NOT like these things to happen:

- new artists getting in the book, and going on hiatus before the book is ever released
- poor artists getting in the book, which gives their pages an ugly polish and speaks poorly of the community
I agree with both of these, but have a quibble about the second one. There could be a lot of disagreement about what constitutes poor art. One of my favorite pages in the FCBDB was "Phil Loves Tacos", which is a stick figure comic. Many people would say that stick figures = poor art automatically. However, I think the PLT page was nicely polished. It looked better in print than some of the pages from ostensibly better artists.

Because of this, I'd say that we don't want unpolished work getting into the book rather than we don't want poor work getting in.

Edit- Yeah, what McDuffies said...
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Post by CaptainClaude »

ataraxia wrote:
ryclaude wrote:I like you, lets be friends.
Yes, let's. :)
then it's settled.

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