Most Challenged Books

Chaos Cricket · Post by **Chaos Cricket** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 1:30 pm

hehe...okay, I think I'm gonna quit while I'm behind here. You win this round, Luprand, but I'll be back, and next time, we'll...umm...discuss French Romanticism? Or perhaps British Gothic literature. Yessss...

Mr.Bob · Post by **Mr.Bob** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 1:42 pm

Dostoyevski is the shizzle!
I liked Crime and Punishment especially!
I haven't read War and Peace (or War and Peace II for that matter) so I don't know about Tolstoy, but when I read Dostoyevski I feel so cool because everyone sitting next to me on the train regard me as an INTELECT-SHOO-ALL!!!

(we really need more extreme smilies)

Chaos Cricket · Post by **Chaos Cricket** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 1:48 pm

The only Russian novel I ever really liked was Bulgakov's The Master and Margarita, where the Devil (named Woland) shows up in Moscow with an entourage of weird characters, including a giant talking cat named Behemoth. It's one of the funniest, most entertaining novels I ever read, and definitely my favorite Russian novel.

Mr.Bob · Post by **Mr.Bob** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 1:52 pm

Chaos Cricket wrote:The only Russian novel I ever really liked was Bulgakov's The Master and Margarita, where the Devil (named Woland) shows up in Moscow with an entourage of weird characters, including a giant talking cat named Behemoth. It's one of the funniest, most entertaining novels I ever read, and definitely my favorite Russian novel.

Giant talking cats?? Say no more!
I must have this book!

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 2:33 pm

Chaos Cricket wrote:I tell ya folks, Dickens makes lots more sense if you keep one thing in mind: he got paid by the word.

That's his excuse, but it really doesn't explain Dostoyevski or Tolstoy. *shudder* Russian Lit. is the Devil.

That's where my eastern-oriented high school education kicks in: Did you actually know that Dostoyevsky and Tolstoy were both payed per word.
Dostoyevsky wrote "Gambler" in one night, he needed money. Luckily, best of his works were not writen thqat way.
It's a simple thing: past were the days of long novels. Back then you could hardly be considered serious writer if you never wrote one big-ass novel-river. Luckily, times are changing.
Which can ruin it a lot, you have there "Ana Carenina", novel with a great moment when she jumps under the train and changes her mind in the moment she's falling in front of wheels, but for that one moment, you have to read entire, four-part book.
Same thing with Dostoyevsky, only he was much better writer and there's much more of those significant moments, so his books I actually like.
I liked "Silent Don" from Solohov, which is a pretty slow and boring book at first, but as time passed from my reading of that book, I started to get it better and now I quite like it.

But while we're talking about russian writers, noone, and I mena NOONE should avoid reading something from Danil Harms.

Chaos Cricket · Post by **Chaos Cricket** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 2:51 pm

Ack, I can't believe I'd forgotten they were paid by the word, too! Curse my faulty memory!

But yeah, I guess they weren't all that bad, if a bit too long-winded. Gogol was pretty good, as was Puskin. Bulgakov is, as I implied, one of my favorites.

And McDuffies, given that you have the knowledge of Eastern European literature that you do, or at least a different perspective on it, let me ask you this--do you consider Nabokov's Lolita a Russian novel? I studied a bunch of the tropes and themes of Russian novels, and it seems to lack all of them (no appearance of Jesus, no instances of sobornost, it was written in English and outside of Russia, and a bunch of others). Just curious.

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 6:31 pm

Chaos Cricket wrote:Ack, I can't believe I'd forgotten they were paid by the word, too! Curse my faulty memory!

But yeah, I guess they weren't all that bad, if a bit too long-winded. Gogol was pretty good, as was Puskin. Bulgakov is, as I implied, one of my favorites.

And McDuffies, given that you have the knowledge of Eastern European literature that you do, or at least a different perspective on it, let me ask you this--do you consider Nabokov's Lolita a Russian novel? I studied a bunch of the tropes and themes of Russian novels, and it seems to lack all of them (no appearance of Jesus, no instances of sobornost, it was written in English and outside of Russia, and a bunch of others). Just curious.

Our school program definitely doesn't consider Nabokov Russian writer, they don't even mention it. Then again, they don't mention Harms either, but then again, the guy is too subversive for educational-programs-writing blockheads to understand how important he is. (sincirely, I reccomend everyone to take a look at him if his books can be found. He mas mainly writing short stories, no longer than a page. If you run into poetry book, avoid cause it's the stuff he was mostly writing for money).

But back to Nabokov:
I didn't read "Lolita" but I did read "Pale fire" and I'm coincidentally currently reading "Ada or ardor" and I definitely think he's closer to western writing than russian novels. Nabokov is essentially postmodernist, and russians didn't really get a hang of postmoders (with few exeptions), even imigrants to America like Dovlatov, still held to traditional realistic prose, I'd say they moved from 19th century themes of moral and religion towards more political topics.
Anyway, Nabokov is IMO closest to west-european postmodernists (Umberto Eko is on top of my head) but he kept russian sensibility and that's what makes his novels somehow rustic. But also, as I heard, "Lolita" is pretty much different from his other books (and not the best one).
EDIT: And while I'm still in ranting mode, I should add that "Lolita" does have one pretty common thing from other Nabokov's works: sexual deviation as a light motive. For instance, "Ada or ardor" is revolving around incest, but setup and tone of writing is such, that Nabokov manages to write it as if it's no big deal, natural stuff; No judgement, no moralizing.

If you can't tell, postmodernism was not part of my school program, it's my personal passion.

Btw Bulgakov is supposedly good, I haven't read it but my best friend worships that book. Puskin, I didn't like, as well as most of romantic stuff. Gogol was not my cup of cake, but reading him I realised how huge impact he had on modern literature so I deeply respect him.

Warren · Post by **Warren** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 8:40 pm

I read the first 50 pages of a technical manual today.

Please shoot me.

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:47 am

*doesn't shoot Warren*

Bright spark · Post by **Bright spark** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 5:57 am

*takes gun from McDuffies*
*shoots Warren*

Well, it had to be done.