Death Panels for All! The health care thread

[Dave Against The Machine]

Why you gotta drag me into this Robby!?!?!
Honestly, I don't trust the government with my health. In short you say that a medical company don't wanna cover things cause they see it as nothing but a loss. But, what makes you think government wants to make that loss? Its said that the insurance company gets to make the decisions on what treatment you can get, but wont that be just the same but in different hands? Its talked about like medical care will be in the hands of someone that cares about you, rather than someone who just cares about your money. Which it wont. Is the government not just pretty much another business? I see it as one. I don't claim to know everything about it and how it will be, and sometimes find it hard to word how I feel. But that is just how I see it.

[Komiyan]

Its said that the insurance company gets to make the decisions on what treatment you can get, but wont that be just the same but in different hands? .

No! You WILL get your treatment, rather than someone having to 'decide'. Under the NHS, if there's a procedure you need, you WILL 100% get it, unless its some new radical thing that hasn't been properly tested yet or whatever.

[Ekolter]

What appalls me the most is the cost for some of the 'simpler' stuff. Tristan's shots are outrageous! Seriously, you think that million of children are required to get this things they might be cheaper? We go through each and every bill due to former billing fuck ups. If it's not required or causing me serve pain, I opt to do over the counter stuff. It's just not worth it to wait an hour, spent 5 minutes to have the doctor tell you what you already know you have, write a prescription for it, drive to the pharmacy and pay out the ass for a drug(s).

I also know many, many people who go under due to medical bills. Thank goodness Ryan has damn good insurance.

Pre-existing conditions make me nervous too. Family history of x, y and/or z? You might as well give up on any chance of help. We have to pay out of pocket for my 'ears' due to this. I haven't upgraded them in nearly a decade. The ones before these were maybe 15 years old before I upgraded. My ears were 2nd best they offered then and were $2200 back then. I can only imagine what they cost now.

[Killbert-Robby]

Its said that the insurance company gets to make the decisions on what treatment you can get, but wont that be just the same but in different hands? .

No! You WILL get your treatment, rather than someone having to 'decide'. Under the NHS, if there's a procedure you need, you WILL 100% get it, unless its some new radical thing that hasn't been properly tested yet or whatever.

Plus that nosejob you'll "die without"

I for one got buggered out of a bunch of cash in Canada not because the procedure wasn't covered by my policy, but because the CLINIC wasn't

[Mercury Hat]

Ekolter reminded me of another thing; with a UHC system, people will be more likely to go in for more preventive care, rather than waiting for the problem to get worse. Got a bad cough? Well if you have pretty bad insurance you might just ignore the problem for awhile and bad luck for you if it progresses to pneumonia instead of having it treated when it was just a cough, huh.

Yeah it might be a waste to some people to go in for a minor pain or issue, but better than having it turn into a major problem that could have been easily detected and treated.

[Phact0rri]

Ekolter reminded me of another thing; with a UHC system, people will be more likely to go in for more preventive care, rather than waiting for the problem to get worse. Got a bad cough? Well if you have pretty bad insurance you might just ignore the problem for awhile and bad luck for you if it progresses to pneumonia instead of having it treated when it was just a cough, huh.

Yeah it might be a waste to some people to go in for a minor pain or issue, but better than having it turn into a major problem that could have been easily detected and treated.

well also there's less excuses. it was hard to get my mum to go to the doctor, as she's of the traditional school of old indians who don't want to. This stuburness killed my grandfather and almost did my mum in. She had cancer and cause we forced her into going she's in remission right now. But without "its to expensive and what if its nothing, thats a waste of money" bs.

[Jim North]

stuff

I was gonna continue our conversation here, but it's really gotten off the topic of universal health care in the US and more into general politics territory. If'n you wanna keep it up, that's cool, but we might should do it elsewhere if you don't mind.

I'm not too uber convinced about education of complex economical relationships working amongst people who don't already get it.

Sorry, but I'm just not convinced that throwing up our hands and letting the uneducated masses give us years of headaches by continuing to complain loudly and proudly about a system they don't understand is exactly the best choice either. Better to actually give that education and sway as many folks as you can than to just say "Sorry you're too stupid to get it, morons" and not try to teach anyone anything.

Yes, there are people you just can't reach. But there are still those few that you can if you just yell loud enough for long enough. Those are the ones that should be gone after. Every voice taken away from the opposition is one less noisemaker we gotta listen to and one more person that can benefit fully from the new system.

[McDuffies]

I don't know why a politician, of all people, can say those kinds of things bold-faced like that.

I would expect politician of all people to say something like that. It's kinda in their job description to say things even their senile mother doesn't believe, without blinking an eye.

I wasn't even aware that americans didn't have universal health coverage until I watched Sicko. You can thank hospital dramas for that.

Yeah what's up with that? I've never even seen the issue brought up in one of those shows, least seing people being given different treatment because of different insurance.

I was gonna continue our conversation here, but it's really gotten off the topic of universal health care in the US and more into general politics territory. If'n you wanna keep it up, that's cool, but we might should do it elsewhere if you don't mind.

But honey, you always have headache.

[Komiyan]

I remember when I first figured out that Americans have to pay for healthcare, and it was on TV shows actually. It was somewhere between this one episode of Friends where one of them goes for treatment under the other's name, and also in Buffy where her mum dies and her hospital bills eat up all of her inheritance. I didn't understand those two plot points for a little while, I was thinking 'well why did the silly woman go private then?'

[Mercury Hat]

Because in medical dramas, the drama comes from the cases and not the invoicing at the end.

And if you can't afford House's radical treatment under your insurance plan, there's always extended payment options...

[Jim North]

I always got the impression that House's cases were pretty much pro bono due to their nature . . . being nigh unsolvable meant solving them was of top priority to the public good or something like that, so the patients were basically treated for free. I may have gotten the wrong impression, tho', since I haven't actually watched very many episodes.

But it certainly couldn't have been good for the general public to have so many cases of lupus running around.

I wasn't even aware that americans didn't have universal health coverage until I watched Sicko. You can thank hospital dramas for that.

Yeah what's up with that? I've never even seen the issue brought up in one of those shows, least seing people being given different treatment because of different insurance.

They must not have aired that very special episode of Doogie Howser, MD overseas.

But honey, you always have headache.

I swear it's my stomach this time. I think I may have lupus.

[Ahaugen]

I swear it's my stomach this time. I think I may have lupus.

It's not lupus! It's never lupus!

except for that one time when it was

[RPin]

I wasn't even aware that americans didn't have universal health coverage until I watched Sicko. You can thank hospital dramas for that.

Yeah what's up with that? I've never even seen the issue brought up in one of those shows, least seing people being given different treatment because of different insurance.

There were some cases where it would be brought up that someone didn't have health insurance, but since they would get treated anyway (always free of charge), I automatically that when people don't have coverage, the government would do it for them.

[Jim North]

I swear it's my stomach this time. I think I may have lupus.

It's not lupus! It's never lupus!

except for that one time when it was

This is that time! I've been secretly practicing stage magic on the side!

[Killbert-Robby]

I'm not too uber convinced about education of complex economical relationships working amongst people who don't already get it.

Sorry, but I'm just not convinced that throwing up our hands and letting the uneducated masses give us years of headaches by continuing to complain loudly and proudly about a system they don't understand is exactly the best choice either. Better to actually give that education and sway as many folks as you can than to just say "Sorry you're too stupid to get it, morons" and not try to teach anyone anything.

Yes, there are people you just can't reach. But there are still those few that you can if you just yell loud enough for long enough. Those are the ones that should be gone after. Every voice taken away from the opposition is one less noisemaker we gotta listen to and one more person that can benefit fully from the new system.

Well, you're certainly putting a lot of words in my mouth. Looks like you just jumped to conclusions the second you heard something in my post you didn't like.

Good thing when the words "cut in social benefits" and "higher taxes" are told to the masses, they won't do the same thing, and will instead rationally sit back and nod and appreciate the intricacies being displayed before them

[Jim North]

Well, you're certainly putting a lot of words in my mouth. Looks like you just jumped to conclusions the second you heard something in my post you didn't like.

Um? I'm trying to find where I put words in your mouth or stated that I didn't like something in your post. Perhaps it would help if you told me your exact problems with my post instead of simply stating your dissatisfaction? It's hard to know whether I should apologize because you're right or continue debating if you're not if you don't communicate the reasons behind your complaint.

Good thing when the words "cut in social benefits" and "higher taxes" are told to the masses, they won't do the same thing, and will instead rationally sit back and nod and appreciate the intricacies being displayed before them

It doesn't necessarily have to be terribly intricate. Thorough doesn't have to mean complex, and you don't have to have an economics degree or even a high school diploma to grasp many of the basic fundamentals of the system, anyway. And in the end, any of the people who end up using the public health care system - many of which will most likely be the masses represented by Mr. Peter Griffin there - are going to have to learn at least some of the basics through experience on the night if not through more school-like education before the fact. Your Medicare got cut, oh noes, but you went into the hospital and they treated you freely in a way that Medicare would have provided before the new system was set up, so hey, guess it's okay. I just think it would be far more constructive if we at least tried to reach them through the latter type of education instead of having them have to stumble through the former.

And if they don't want to learn or accept, then they don't have to use the system they're so against. I'm not certain, but aren't there still private practitioners in countries with socialized medicine? Even if there's not, then I'm sure there still will be here in the US . . . we likes us some Capitalism. Even the post office has a little private sector competition.

[McDuffies]

They must not have aired that very special episode of Doogie Howser, MD overseas.

Well it's one special episode and seeing how that seems to be such huge problem, one would think it popped up more often... And two examples Komi named aren't even medical shows. We have one hospital comedy here and nearly every episode mentions issues of social security, overzealous management not wanting to accept people without insurance, etc, it's a source of much of the comedy in the show... compared to American show that plays back to back where they never even mention it, despite it being more of an issue over there.

[MixedMyth]

It comes up in Scrubs now and then. I remember the head of the hospital running patients through a grocery store check out line and tossing aside those that didn't have good insurance. Hilarious, but hits the mark.

[Robin Pierce]

It comes up in Scrubs now and then. I remember the head of the hospital running patients through a grocery store check out line and tossing aside those that didn't have good insurance. Hilarious, but hits the mark.

grey's anatomy did it as well, where the hospital actually forged the records so that a child got surgery before the next day where their insurance runs out. TV seems to recognize it's an issue. But people also don't seem to like change very much. Even when they voted in on a platform of 'change'.

[Mvmarcz]

The current system just doesn't work, honestly.
Because of a technicality when I transferred into my uni I was counted as a freshman. That semester they made it a requirement to have meningitis as one of the mandatory vaccines for all freshman entering because of an outbreak at a Lafayette college. Most health units were giving free meningitis to 19 and under. Well I was a twenty something "entering freshman" even though I'd already received an associates degree elsewhere. Most freshman and sophomores were covered, fine. I had to sign a paper saying if there was an outbreak I would voluntarily be absent because I cannot afford the near $200 shot. So if there's an outbreak I'd probably fail the semester. Luckily this is my last on campus semester.
This is just one of the many "how being unable to afford insurance or good insurance has effected my life" stories that I have.
Would you like another? I had a birth defect called a preauriccular skin pit. I'm sure I mentioned it here in the past, I've been on these boards for a while. You can google it to learn specifics. The meat of the problem is that all my life the one in my left ear constantly got infected. When I was born they told my mom they could remove/cover it but the anesthetic they would have used could have endangered the life of an infant so my mom decided to wait. When I was in grade school none of the doctors I ever saw knew what it was and told us that to get it taken care of would be considered cosmetic surgery and would not be covered. I never understood this...it repeatedly got infected! How is that a cosmetic issue? That part is more crap doctors than bad insurance. Right before I got married I decided to get everything medical I needed before I would be off of my moms plan and insuranceless. My ear got infected again and I went to a doctor who actually knew what the problem was. The issue with insurance was because a plastic surgeon would have to do the surgery. Even though, they told me, if it continued to get infected like it was it could have locked my jaw(actually I was told it WOULD lock my jaw eventually), because a plastic surgeon had to do it it might not be covered.
Luckily my doctor was creative with the paperwork and it was covered.
Yay private insurance...