Webcomic Above You 2012 - Discussion Thread

[Terotrous]

Well, in some sense the reader is always right. You don't generally get to debate your comic's merits with your audience.


Of course I found a little loophole with my comic - if you don't have an audience, you can do whatever you want.

[RobboAKAscooby]

Of course I found a little loophole with my comic - if you don't have an audience, you can do whatever you want.

I think most of us have found that loophole

[peterabnny]

I guess it's too late now to back out of this thread, isn't it? By now I feel as qualified to give a review as a blind man does a Picasso. However, I can honestly say I'm done with all voluntary reviews for the foreseeable future. To do otherwise would be insanity - which, as Einstein said, is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

I'll get to your review soon, Scooby. But if you could do me one favor I'd appreciate it. I fully get that my website sucks smelly ass and that it's about as current as parachute pants, but could you give me some good websites with a modern design that I could look at and/or emulate? I can do that when I get a little break until I get a bigger block of time with which to respond to you.

[RobboAKAscooby]

I guess it's too late now to back out of this thread, isn't it? By now I feel as qualified to give a review as a blind man does a Picasso. However, I can honestly say I'm done with all voluntary reviews for the foreseeable future. To do otherwise would be insanity - which, as Einstein said, is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Don't be too discouraged, if you've read some of my own comics' reviews you'll see it's a mixed bag of good and (mostly) bad but I can only look at it as motivation to improve - which I hope I have.

Insanity here would be hiding from future reviews - take the opportunities to learn and grow.
My comics wouldn't be near what they are now if I didn't get the advice that can only come from peer reviews such as this.

I'll get to your review soon, Scooby. But if you could do me one favor I'd appreciate it. I fully get that my website sucks smelly ass and that it's about as current as parachute pants, but could you give me some good websites with a modern design that I could look at and/or emulate? I can do that when I get a little break until I get a bigger block of time with which to respond to you.

My recommendation for now would be to take the style of your archive pages and replace the text links with navigation buttons, also reduce the severity of the bevel border on the side menu there, and you'll have a much more suitable site.

Making buttons is easy enough with any image editing program (I just use the one that came with my scanner), if you need one download GiMP.

[LibertyCabbage]

There, done.
I'm in no way an expert on anything so if you disagree you're probably right.

I think you can stand to have a little more conviction. You may have missed that I haven't updated Deep in more than five years, and I'm aware of how terrible it is. (I called Deep "officially the worst surrealism webcomic ever made" in the "That's my purse!" thread a few weeks ago.) It's really nice to finally get someone's perspective on it, though, and I think you brought up a lot of very good points.

Also, I like that you pointed out June. I gave it a very positive review, and I agree that it exemplifies what a surrealism webcomic should be. I think it deserves a lot more attention than it's currently getting.

I really appreciate that you took the time to read and review something so jumbled and incomprehensible. I also think your review's very detailed and coherent for it being your first time writing one, and I encourage you to write more reviews sometime.

[RobboAKAscooby]

Woohoo 5 out of 9 reviews done so far!!!

But we still need more participants

[LibertyCabbage]

I guess it's too late now to back out of this thread, isn't it? By now I feel as qualified to give a review as a blind man does a Picasso. However, I can honestly say I'm done with all voluntary reviews for the foreseeable future. To do otherwise would be insanity - which, as Einstein said, is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

This seems a lot like the "doom and gloom" attitude from a few months ago, and perhaps you should go back and read some of the very good advice given for that situation. I disagree with sheltering oneself from criticism, as criticism goes hand in hand with improvement. And it's ultimately your own personal choice -- you can be forward-thinking and get better, or you can concede to being stagnant. I would hope for the former, and I encourage it, but any progress has to come from your own initiative.

I agree with Robbo's example, in that he's done a great job of being positive and determined despite being a figurative review punching bag, and also having not just one comic get critically panned, but multiple comics.

I'd also like to comment on Robbo's description of Critters as "a simple, black and white, gag-a-day comic." I think that statement successfully expands on what I'd brought up earlier about the update schedule, in that this sort of comic really works best with a sort of rapid-fire, mass-produced, stream-of-ideas approach. It's not a coincidence that the newspaper comics run seven days a week, which is where the "gag-a-day" term Robbo used comes from. Of course, it's actually those cartoonists' jobs to do it, but I remember, for instance, when CG's Matt Johnson did a simple, black and white, gag-a-day comic Monday through Friday that seemed to work pretty well. The problem with relating this to Critters is obviously that updating daily is such a huge difference from updating once a month, but I feel like a Monday through Friday schedule like Cortland had is an endgame that Critters ultimately needs to start moving towards.

I fully get that my website sucks smelly ass and that it's about as current as parachute pants, but could you give me some good websites with a modern design that I could look at and/or emulate?

Here are some of the ones that stood out to me from my reviews:

A Loonatic's Tale
Demon of the Underground
Derelict
Four Tales
Gloomverse
How to Save the World
The Prime of Ambition

[LibertyCabbage]

But we still need more participants

Yes, and for the new people, remember that you can enter your webcomic more than once.

[LibertyCabbage]

Oh, yeah, the other thing I was gonna mention:

By now I feel as qualified to give a review as a blind man does a Picasso.

I don't think anybody's opinion's irrelevant. I mean, all the time readers are silently evaluating comics, and many of them may have no experience making comics whatsoever. And then there's the angle of different creative fields -- for example, it may be interesting and insightful to get the perspective of a poet or a painter, even though neither of them are cartoonists. Ultimately, everyone brings a unique point of view.

[VeryCuddlyCornpone]

Woohoo 5 out of 9 reviews done so far!!!

But we still need more participants

I plan to play again. I was going to sign up after I write my review but might sign up before then

[peterabnny]

Don't be too discouraged, if you've read some of my own comics' reviews you'll see it's a mixed bag of good and (mostly) bad but I can only look at it as motivation to improve - which I hope I have.

Insanity here would be hiding from future reviews - take the opportunities to learn and grow.
My comics wouldn't be near what they are now if I didn't get the advice that can only come from peer reviews such as this.

Indeed, I've always felt that P2P reviews are the best and most beneficial, but they also cut the deepest when they go south.

When I said any further reviews would be insanity, it was only because they're starting to sound repetitive. If I get one and it's bad, by now I can pretty much guess what they're gonna say. However, it's only true insanity if I decide to do nothing. Yesterday when I read your review I was pretty much thinking about ending production after this story arc and start doing furry porn, where the potential for popularity is far higher and the standards far lower. But my wife wasn't keen on the idea, and FWIW I'm not, either. Today, after you and LC I figure I'll continue on the site redesign and see if anything beneficial comes of that and see where things stand then. At least with you guys, you'll knock a person down but offer a hand to get back up again.

I'd also like to comment on Robbo's description of Critters as "a simple, black and white, gag-a-day comic." I think that statement successfully expands on what I'd brought up earlier about the update schedule, in that this sort of comic really works best with a sort of rapid-fire, mass-produced, stream-of-ideas approach. It's not a coincidence that the newspaper comics run seven days a week, which is where the "gag-a-day" term Robbo used comes from. Of course, it's actually those cartoonists' jobs to do it, but I remember, for instance, when CG's Matt Johnson did a simple, black and white, gag-a-day comic Monday through Friday that seemed to work pretty well. The problem with relating this to Critters is obviously that updating daily is such a huge difference from updating once a month, but I feel like a Monday through Friday schedule like Cortland had is an endgame that Critters ultimately needs to start moving towards.

That brings up a point that I wanna ask about. I'll get to that later.

Here are some of the ones that stood out to me from my reviews:

A Loonatic's Tale
Demon of the Underground
Derelict
Four Tales
Gloomverse
How to Save the World
The Prime of Ambition

Ah, NOW we're getting somewhere! Those are some right smart-looking websites, there. Question - how do I get one of those myself? I see what you and Scooby were talking about the dated look of mine. I think it was mentioned somewhere before, but are there free (or cheap) places out there that I could build a site with, and how do they typically work? Tell you the God's-honest truth I've been wanting to have a website that's simple enough that I could maintain myself and thereby relieve my wife of the chore of updating. But I myself know absolutely nothing about HTML or web design.

[LibertyCabbage]

Ah, NOW we're getting somewhere! Those are some right smart-looking websites, there. Question - how do I get one of those myself? I see what you and Scooby were talking about the dated look of mine. I think it was mentioned somewhere before, but are there free (or cheap) places out there that I could build a site with, and how do they typically work? Tell you the God's-honest truth I've been wanting to have a website that's simple enough that I could maintain myself and thereby relieve my wife of the chore of updating. But I myself know absolutely nothing about HTML or web design.

For comics stuff, I'm mainly familiar with sites like Comic Genesis that handle all the technical stuff (e.g. auto page archiving, delayed uploading), leaving the cartoonist to only have to worry about the design, which can be handled entirely though HTML and CSS, along with an image-editing program for graphics. For independent sites, they'd need something more robust, like Javascript or PHP, and I assume those sites use some sort of program or borrow code from somewhere. I know some comics (like How to Save the World) use a Wordpress blog with a plugin called Comicpress that changes it to work better for comics.

I'd definitely recommend everyone learn basic HTML, and even just knowing how to make a table, customize fonts, add images, and make hyperlinks can help a lot.

[VeryCuddlyCornpone]

This site has been a great friend to me in terms of coding.

Obviously it won't teach you the artful way to do things, but it has good technical instructions for the bare-bones, "how-do-I-make-a-blablu" type of questions.

Although coding has a huge learning curve, it can be really satisfying to learn, especially when you've been working on something for hours trying to get it to look right and finally get it the way you want it (or better). Kind of like when you finish a particularly difficult crossword puzzle, only with coding there's usually more swearing and sorer, bloodshot eyes involved

[Cannetella]

This site has been a great friend to me in terms of coding.

Obviously it won't teach you the artful way to do things, but it has good technical instructions for the bare-bones, "how-do-I-make-a-blablu" type of questions.

Although coding has a huge learning curve, it can be really satisfying to learn, especially when you've been working on something for hours trying to get it to look right and finally get it the way you want it (or better). Kind of like when you finish a particularly difficult crossword puzzle, only with coding there's usually more swearing and sorer, bloodshot eyes involved

I have always wanted to know how to make a blablu.

[Cannetella]

This site has been a great friend to me in terms of coding.

Obviously it won't teach you the artful way to do things, but it has good technical instructions for the bare-bones, "how-do-I-make-a-blablu" type of questions.

Although coding has a huge learning curve, it can be really satisfying to learn, especially when you've been working on something for hours trying to get it to look right and finally get it the way you want it (or better). Kind of like when you finish a particularly difficult crossword puzzle, only with coding there's usually more swearing and sorer, bloodshot eyes involved

I have always wanted to know how to make a blablu.

[VeryCuddlyCornpone]

This site has been a great friend to me in terms of coding.

Obviously it won't teach you the artful way to do things, but it has good technical instructions for the bare-bones, "how-do-I-make-a-blablu" type of questions.

Although coding has a huge learning curve, it can be really satisfying to learn, especially when you've been working on something for hours trying to get it to look right and finally get it the way you want it (or better). Kind of like when you finish a particularly difficult crossword puzzle, only with coding there's usually more swearing and sorer, bloodshot eyes involved

I have always wanted to know how to make a blablu.

And now you can learn so easily!

[Terotrous]

I guess it's too late now to back out of this thread, isn't it? By now I feel as qualified to give a review as a blind man does a Picasso. However, I can honestly say I'm done with all voluntary reviews for the foreseeable future. To do otherwise would be insanity - which, as Einstein said, is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

I'll get to your review soon, Scooby. But if you could do me one favor I'd appreciate it. I fully get that my website sucks smelly ass and that it's about as current as parachute pants, but could you give me some good websites with a modern design that I could look at and/or emulate? I can do that when I get a little break until I get a bigger block of time with which to respond to you.

I agree that I wouldn't take it personally, even the most spectacular comics out there get criticized routinely, and even if they don't, the creator probably hates their own work. That's just the name of the game as far as comics go. Look at it this way, at least someone else read through your comic and they may have even enjoyed some of it.

Speaking of which, I took a quick look at your website,and the first thing that I would recommend is not to resize the images and force people to click on them see the full size image. One of the biggest strengths of your comic is that the art is fairly detailed and the strips are well-inked, which is lost when you look at them in a smaller size, so you don't want to risk the possibility that some people might not figure out that you can blow them up. It would also make the comic easier and faster to read if the extra 2 clicks per comic weren't necessary (one to zoom in, one to go to full size). I realize that choice would have made sense in the early 2000s where many people were still using 800 x 600 but these days almost everyone has a horizontal resolution of at least 1200 so they can probably fit your entire comic on their screen now, or even if they can't, they'd have to scroll it anyway after clicking on it.

To better facilitate this I'd recommend putting the menu above the comic rather than to the side.


Also, your comic reminds me of Sabrina Online in a bunch of ways - comedy / drama hybrid furry comic, been around forever, hand-inked, updates monthly, same site design issue where you have to click on the comics to make them bigger, has the word "online" in its title, etc.

[MichaelYakutis]

Sure, I'll just review your comic whenever you say you're ready for it, then.

Ok LC, if you'd like to take a look at my comic have at it! As I mentioned prevously, the story just went through a huge change this week, so you can either start from the very beggining here: http://www.andtobeloved.com/archive/cha ... e-cover-3/, or if you get tired of reading, you can jump ahead to the "big change" which kinda starts somewhere around here: http://www.andtobeloved.com/archive/cha ... -page-136/.

We are going to be redesigning the site within the next couple of months, so any tips on site design would be awesome and much appreciated.

And yeah, I know my review wasn't THAT long, just barely over the minimum. This relates to my initial confusion about the WAY thread and the WAY Discussion thread. At some point, after more people have joined in the thread, I'll do another more thoughful review about just ONE comic, rather than two short reviews about two comics.

[VeryCuddlyCornpone]

MY, your banner is tickling me.

[MichaelYakutis]

MY, your banner is tickling me.

Aha...thanks. Yeah, my writer redesigned it the other day. We're going to be a bit more...flamboyant... starting in the next chapter (which will be next week I thinnk). Trying to appeal to a more specific target audience. Hmm...can you guess what audience that may be?? I'll give you a hint - it's not Christain conservatives extremists. Or IS it?