Rebirth of Webcomic Above Discussion

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:41 am

[geoduck] wrote:
ShineDog wrote:you put a k in front.
In front of what?

In front of 'knob'.

To make.... k-knob. Which is probably a truly terrifying concept.

War · Post by **War** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:58 am

K + nob = knob.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:03 am

Oooooh, I know, I was being facetious.

And anyway, what really infuriates us is people talking about a "British accent". What one of those is I don't know, but I would pay to hear it performed.

Dutch! · Post by **Dutch!** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:03 am

I hope they actually understand what knob we're talking about.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:08 am

I hope I actually understand what knob we're talking about. Because that could be really embarrassing.

[geoduck] · Post by **[geoduck]** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 10:46 am

I said "nob", and I meant "nob".

Of course, while they are not automatically the same thing, it is true that many nobs are also knobs.

Dutch! · Post by **Dutch!** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:30 pm

As are many of the British.

Legion · Post by **Legion** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:35 pm

And proud of it, sah!

Redtech · Post by **Redtech** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:35 pm

Dutch! wrote:As are many of the British.

I propose a Jihad on you, kind sir!

CSchaefer · Post by **CSchaefer** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:38 pm

LibertyCabbage wrote:Review of Sharper posted, 2451 words.

Thank you so much for the feedback and your comments! I would have posted sooner, but I've been out of town for the week and just got back. Anyway, you've given me a lot of food for thought regarding the art and visual style, and shown me a lot that needs improvement -- it is very much appreciated, and I'll be chewing on it for a while.

RemusShepherd · Post by **RemusShepherd** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 2:40 pm

Review of What Birds Know is up. Hope it helps.

Glarryg · Post by **Glarryg** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:08 pm

Review of Indefensible Positions up.

Next time I hope to review a comic that I know very little about; so far the reviews I've done are comics I've either read before (in part or in whole) or wanted to read based on the "word on the street."

Glarryg

Col · Post by **Col** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:43 pm

The following people still need to write their reviews...

Circle Arcadia - Reviewed by K-Dawg, incomplete

School Spirit - Reviewed by TRI, incomplete

Strange Happenings - Reviewed by netpoet, incomplete

Sorcery 101 - Reviewed by ryclaude, incomplete

Orange Revolution/Deep/Freedom Fries - Reviewed by yeahduff, incomplete

8:1 - Reviewed by The Neko, incomplete

LagoMorphine - Reviewed by sorcery101, incomplete

Point Guardian - Reviewed by mcDuffies, incomplete

Little White Knight - Reviewed by Mo, incomplete

IMO - Reviewed by mvmarcz, incomplete

Necropolis - Reviewed by mrdaveryan, incomplete

Bad Ass Muthas - Reviewed by Col, incomplete

Strange Happenings - Reviewed by Eve Z., incomplete

Synthetic Life - Reviewed by hallonpress, incomplete

All other reviews are complete, great job folks!!!

LibertyCabbage · Post by **LibertyCabbage** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:08 pm

CSchaefer wrote: Thank you so much for the feedback and your comments! I would have posted sooner, but I've been out of town for the week and just got back. Anyway, you've given me a lot of food for thought regarding the art and visual style, and shown me a lot that needs improvement -- it is very much appreciated, and I'll be chewing on it for a while.

I'm glad to be able to help =] The comic did interest me a lot, and I really got into the characters and the story although the problems with the art and the way the art was used were overwhelming.

Dr Legostar · Post by **Dr Legostar** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:48 pm

Col wrote:The following people still need to write their reviews...

Circle Arcadia - Reviewed by K-Dawg, incomplete

School Spirit - Reviewed by TRI, incomplete

Strange Happenings - Reviewed by netpoet, incomplete

Sorcery 101 - Reviewed by ryclaude, incomplete

Orange Revolution/Deep/Freedom Fries - Reviewed by yeahduff, incomplete

8:1 - Reviewed by The Neko, incomplete

LagoMorphine - Reviewed by sorcery101, incomplete

Point Guardian - Reviewed by mcDuffies, incomplete

Little White Knight - Reviewed by Mo, incomplete

IMO - Reviewed by mvmarcz, incomplete

Necropolis - Reviewed by mrdaveryan, incomplete

Bad Ass Muthas - Reviewed by Col, incomplete

Strange Happenings - Reviewed by Eve Z., incomplete

Synthetic Life - Reviewed by hallonpress, incomplete

All other reviews are complete, great job folks!!!

seriously? do i not exist?

RemusShepherd · Post by **RemusShepherd** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:12 pm

Glarryg wrote:Review of Indefensible Positions up.

Thanks, Glarryg!

I think I've come as far as I'm going to artistically. I can memorize anatomy, but for some reason proportions are just not memorizable -- I think they're a part of muscle memory, that only years of practice can instill. Or maybe I have some kind of proportion dyslexia. Oh, well.

Hallonpress · Post by **Hallonpress** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 2:15 am

Some thought about what RemusShepherd said in the review:

RemusShepherd wrote: As for the art, it's professional, with clean, magnificent-looking line work and vivid coloring. There are occasional exaggerations of proportion that are jarring (look at the three sizes of Elia's head here). There are also some experiments with perspective that seem unnecessary, but I do the same thing -- it keeps the visuals interesting.

The example with Elia's head is interesting. I've never noticed, but I see it now. That is, not so much its size as its shape. It looks really weird. To our defense I'll have to say that this is the beginning of the story, a year ago, and I hadn't quite nailed how to draw her yet. Pages 1-23 are going to be redrawn anyway when we find the time.

But what do you mean by "unneccesary experiments" with perspective? I don't understand. Does it mean that you think the perspective is wrong? Do you think we should have used less advanced perspective, and in that case, why? Do you think it looks out of place somehow? Could you give examples of specific panels?

RemusShepherd wrote: But there's something I don't like about the art...and I think it's the shading. The shading is distracting and wrong. Keep in mind that I'm a low-talent amateur critiquing a professional's work, but there are shading techniques here which I do not understand and I do not like. I hope my ignorant sparring is at least helpful.

The most apparent shading problem is what I'll call 'raccoon eye syndrome'. Shading around the eyes is just wrong, with large dark areas under the eyeball where the cheek should be fully lit. To give you some examples, here are some raccoon eyes early in the strip and here are some raccoon eyes later that look just as bad. There is no distinct improvement in the art over the course of the strip, which isn't a bad thing when it's professional work.

I respect your opinion about the shading around the eyes, even if I don't agree with you. I do think that there is improvement in the overall art over time, though.

RemusShepherd wrote: But the shading is wrong in other places. Characters seem to all have their own light sources -- indeed, each part of a character's anatomy might be lit from different directions. It all has the effect of making these wonderfully lined characters look two-dimensional, which is a shame.

I think I'll try to make this point by performing the unforgivable: I shall attempt to improve the art of someone who is a much, much better artist than I am.

The original is on the left; my edited version is on the right. On Elia (the blonde) I only fixed the raccoon eyes and changed the bizarre shading on the bridge of her nose. On Vandi (the redhead) I fixed the raccoon eyes, fixed the shading of her hair on her skin (and added a little shading in the hair itself), and made her torso three-dimensional (assuming the light is coming mostly from the right side). I think these slight edits help to make the characters pop out, instead of looking like paper cutouts. One thing I didn't fix was Elia's hand in the foreground, because even though I know it looks wrong I don't know what to do with it.

Again, I'll point out that this is a panel from the beginning of the story, that will be redrawn. And sorry, but to me, your version looks a lot more flat than what we did. It may be more correct - even if I have some doubts about that too; wouldn't Elia block out the light on Vandi's chest, making your highlight on her boob wrong too? And shouldn't the underside of her boobs be slightly darker anyway, since they are protruding and cast shadows by themselves?

In any case, it may be more correct, but we SOMETIMES let go of realism on purpose to shade the characters in a way that makes them look three dimensional (?). All the while paying attention to what direction the light is coming from, mind you. I don't think it looks like each character of different body parts have different light sources, we just "cheat" sometimes with faces.

RemusShepherd wrote: These shading problems are *minor*. Look at everyone who has been drooling over the artwork in What Birds Know -- they didn't notice any of these problems. I'm a dick for mentioning them. But I did notice them, and they did interrupt my enjoyment of the comic's otherwise beautiful art, so I felt bound to say something.

Well, after stating that the shading is "distracting and wrong", somehow I doubt you really find it that minor.

It is weird that you find such glaring problems in the departments that we have recieved the most praise in; perspective, and the use of color. Makes me wonder what to think. But different people see different things, and you can't please everyone...

RemusShepherd wrote: I only noticed two suspension-of-disbelief problems in the story that interrupted my reading. For one, this is from all appearances a medieval society, yet all the girls are nineteen years old. A nineteen year old woman in medieval times is an *old maiden*, not a schoolgirl. By rights, all three of these girls should be married with kids by now.

Says who? This isn't medieval society, it isn't Germany in the year 1410, it's fantasy. It's A medieval society, but in a different world. This is a very deliberate move on our part. We are strong supporters of feminism, and we hate clichés. This society is still on a medieval level when it comes to technology, but on a social level, it's far more advanced. It's a modern, medieval society. Is that really so hard to buy?

RemusShepherd wrote: And two -- minor story spoiler here: Eating mushrooms you don't recognize is *suicidal*, and everyone should know that -- medieval foragers most of all. The girls eventually do realize how stupid that little meal was, but not for many pages, and I suspect many readers will start screaming 'MORONS!' at their monitor like I did.

It's still a different world, so they don't have the same types of mushrooms that we do. If almost all the mushrooms that grow in their forest are edible, then, naturally they wouldn't be as careful as we are, since they wouldn't have as much reason to be.

And remember, they are studying mushrooms right now. Those that ARE dangerous, they know by sight and stay away from. They even have a book about mushrooms in their bagage. Dores would've checked the dangerous ones even if she didn't already know them by heart. But she didn't bother going through the entire book, and that's why they didn't "know" they were edible.

-Mattias

Col · Post by **Col** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:02 am

legostargalactica wrote:
Col wrote:The following people still need to write their reviews...

Circle Arcadia - Reviewed by K-Dawg, incomplete

School Spirit - Reviewed by TRI, incomplete

Strange Happenings - Reviewed by netpoet, incomplete

Sorcery 101 - Reviewed by ryclaude, incomplete

Orange Revolution/Deep/Freedom Fries - Reviewed by yeahduff, incomplete

8:1 - Reviewed by The Neko, incomplete

LagoMorphine - Reviewed by sorcery101, incomplete

Point Guardian - Reviewed by mcDuffies, incomplete

Little White Knight - Reviewed by Mo, incomplete

IMO - Reviewed by mvmarcz, incomplete

Necropolis - Reviewed by mrdaveryan, incomplete

Bad Ass Muthas - Reviewed by Col, incomplete

Strange Happenings - Reviewed by Eve Z., incomplete

Synthetic Life - Reviewed by hallonpress, incomplete

All other reviews are complete, great job folks!!!
seriously? do i not exist?

*checks thread* HOLY CRAP! No kidding! Sorry about that, Lego, I completely missed that.

Legostar Galactica - Reviewed by SergeXIII, incomplete

I threw that up on the Webcomic Review Thread too. Though I'm not even sure if half these people remember they have a comic to review.

Dr Legostar · Post by **Dr Legostar** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 5:58 am

Col wrote:*checks thread* HOLY CRAP! No kidding! Sorry about that, Lego, I completely missed that.

twice actually, last time you did this you missed me too.

Col · Post by **Col** » Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:15 am

legostargalactica wrote:
Col wrote:*checks thread* HOLY CRAP! No kidding! Sorry about that, Lego, I completely missed that.
twice actually, last time you did this you missed me too.

Yeah, I know. I didn't realize there was an unreviewed comic before page four. Serge hasn't been around much the lately, so who knows if he's even seen these lists?