I have a plan to save comics.

[Shishio]

I have no problem with link backs.

[Largopredator]

This sounds like a great idea, and I hope you get the ball rolling this way. I'd like to help but I don't think my stuff is really suitable. At the very least I can post about it to draw more attention to it. Good luck with it and keep us posted!

[Mr.GtF]

This sounds really ambitious but very worthwhile, I really hope you make a go of it!
My strip is suitable for children but it's still very new with about 20 strips in the archive so I don't know if it'll be of much use to you.

[Eff]

Even the tree ground was just a mightiest nut that once stood its oak.

@_@

[McDuffies]

Even the tree ground was just a mightiest nut that once stood its oak.

@_@

Sounds kinky.

[Dutch!]

And Dutch, where's you at? Get on in here.

I was being incognito.

[JTorch]

I have a comic that I used to draw (it was never online) that might be suitable. I'll re-draw a couple once you have everything up and running and you can let me know what you think. My regular comic, however, has the occasional "hell", "damn", and "crap", which I assume is a no-no.

[Dutch!]

Aw, mine has the occasional 'bugger' and the very occasional 'bloody'. Hell and damn and crap shouldn't bat an eyelid. I mean... four of those five words the kids at school say in the classroom half the time anyway

[NakedElf]

Aw, mine has the occasional 'bugger' and the very occasional 'bloody'. Hell and damn and crap shouldn't bat an eyelid. I mean... four of those five words the kids at school say in the classroom half the time anyway :)

And half the students have penises, so that shouldn't bother them, either ^_^

Seriously, though, I like this idea, even though I have nothing 'appropriate' to offer, (at least by other people's standards.)


The only thing which bugs me is the 'all ages' designation. What's appropriate for and useful to a 10 yr old for the sake of literacy is not the same as what's appropriate and useful to a 6 yr old and certainly not what's going to be mainly of interest to a 30 yr old. (For example, while I can't remember anything in XKCD which make parents angry if you gave it to little kids, and if there is anything, it could certainly be removed without affecting the comic, little kids wouldn't <i>get</i> it at all...) You don't really want things aimed at "all ages," you want things aimed at little kids. But that's really just a stupid semantics issue.

Anyway, what I would *actually* encourage is that you try to vary up the reading level--don't just have blank comics for kids who can't read, also try to have more advanced comics for kids who are quite good at reading. After all, they deserve some comic-love too, and their parents will be more inclined towards your project if their kids are bringing home comics with big fancy words in them.

[Dutch!]

While I haven't read many of the strips that have already been accepted into this project of Shishio's, or the ones who've offered their own work here, I would not be surprised at all to find the reading levels required of them all is already quite varied. Maybe not right down at the 6 year old level, but trust me, it can be pretty difficult to find stuff for that level of reading (especially if the kid is 10 at the time, etc).

Good point all the same though.

[Shishio]

The only thing which bugs me is the 'all ages' designation. What's appropriate for and useful to a 10 yr old for the sake of literacy is not the same as what's appropriate and useful to a 6 yr old and certainly not what's going to be mainly of interest to a 30 yr old. (For example, while I can't remember anything in XKCD which make parents angry if you gave it to little kids, and if there is anything, it could certainly be removed without affecting the comic, little kids wouldn't <i>get</i> it at all...) You don't really want things aimed at "all ages," you want things aimed at little kids. But that's really just a stupid semantics issue.

I disagree. I believe that many kids stories are patronizing to kids, and therefore, not very good stories. A truly well-written "kids" story will be something that kids can understand and appreciate, something that doesn't talk down to them, and can therefore be enjoyed by people of all ages. See: Calvin and Hobbes, Copper, Gunnerkrigg Court, Count Your Sheep, Smile!, etc.

Anyway, what I would *actually* encourage is that you try to vary up the reading level--don't just have blank comics for kids who can't read, also try to have more advanced comics for kids who are quite good at reading. After all, they deserve some comic-love too, and their parents will be more inclined towards your project if their kids are bringing home comics with big fancy words in them.

While you are right, the thing you have to keep in mind is that I'm just a guy with only enough money to give a free book to a school of kids. While (Not wanting to toot my own horn) I think this is a brilliant idea, I'm not really in a position to establish criteria. Quite frankly, I have to take whatever I can get. This isn't a dig at anyone, I'm just saying that I'm not at the point where I can expect people to trip over themselves to help me. Sure, I'm getting a positive response here, but I'm well known here, I don't really have any reputation outside a few forums I frequent, or if I do, it's almost certainly bad.

If this succeeds, and big businesses/other institutions with deep pockets take notice of what I'm trying to accomplish, and sponsor the project, then I will be able to make this bigger and more organized, until then, I will make do with whatever I get.

[NakedElf]

I disagree. I believe that many kids stories are patronizing to kids, and therefore, not very good stories. A truly well-written "kids" story will be something that kids can understand and appreciate, something that doesn't talk down to them, and can therefore be enjoyed by people of all ages. See: Calvin and Hobbes, Copper, Gunnerkrigg Court, Count Your Sheep, Smile!, etc.

I think we are talking about slightly different things here. I agree that a well-written story can be enjoyed by people of all ages, but that doesn't mean that everything which is 'all ages appropriate' would necessarily be enjoyed by little kids. For example, I could write a very 'all ages appropriate' story about some folks in a nursing home, but it would probably not be very interesting to a kid. Or I could write a story about a guy pursuing his PhD in math which just wouldn't make any sense to a kid. Different interests and life experiences are going to make adults and kids value different things in their literature.

However, I detest the habit of 'talking down' to kids. Absolutely detest it. I could rant at length, but I'll spare you.

Like I said, it's basically a meaningless semantics issue.

keep in mind is that I'm just a guy with only enough money to give a free book to a school of kids...

I know, I know. And it's admirable as is. Just offering my two cents in case they're ever of use.

[Shishio]

Since it is, like you said, semantics, I won't argue it further. Instead I'll ask for thoughts on something relevant.

On another forum I frequent, there is an ongoing discussion on how to bring new readers to comics, and it focuses on how to attract kids. Here's something that made me think:

Gotta ask this o you guys. Seems to me everyone is overlooking something key to Manga's appeal. When I was a kid I used to buy these little digest books with characters like Archie, Jughead, Reggie, Moose and sometimes Bettie and Veronica as well as Casper, Wendy, Baby Huey, a little devil, Tom and Jerry, Scrooge McDuck and Goofy and their were many more, many more titles I didn't buy because they were for girls. Now tell me what was the format of those books and do ya'll think they sold well and what are the similarities to todays versions of those books?
You guys have rambled on about Manga's and why they sell but completely forgot about those Digest format kids books that I mentioned above. Manga's are basically those books. They fit into small hands, are fun. No pretense of being a collectable and can be shared. See where I'm going?
It's all about the format. You switch the format of regular comics and then see if you can get them into the bookstores. TPB's have a format similar to a regular book. Comics don't. Here's my suggestion reformat those 22 pages of regular comic art into 44 or more pages by making the size of the book half what a comic is and slap a card stock cover on it and market it as such. A digest.
I wonder what happened to all my digests? Damn I hate that I moved around so much. I've lost more comics than I can remember. I had issue 1 of Marvel comics given to me by a guy who's father was in WW2. Cover was torn but it was all there. Damn I wish I had those books now.

Originally, what I was envisioning was a book much like the Flight books. Large, and in luscious colour. Of course, I can't afford that, so I was probably going to end up using a POD service to print a 52 page full colour "floppy", as a pilot project, with the hopes that it would succeed and I could start making proper books. Or I could print a digest book, also 52 pages, in full colour for about the same price. OR, I could go black and white, increase the page count to 140, and save nearly half my money, which can go towards more books, or increasing the page count further. (To a maximum of 200.)

I was pretty set on colour, but manga is wildly popular among the demographics I feel I need to appeal to, so maybe it's not as important as I thought.

Thoughts?

[NakedElf]

I think my favorite books as a kid were all exactly 84 pages long (I thought that was really weird.) I think anything over a certain size gets to be intimidating to a lot of kids, so I'd be waryof increasing the page count much over 100--maybe 150 max... Maybe things have changed, but that's what I remember.

'Digest' strikes me as a pretty good size--a nice, friendly size. Black and white seems the way to go on printing simply because it allows you to print *more* books for the same price...
Of course, it depends on the material. Some comics are going to fit into a digest format and are going to look good in B&W. Others won't.

[Shishio]

I think my favorite books as a kid were all exactly 84 pages long (I thought that was really weird.) I think anything over a certain size gets to be intimidating to a lot of kids, so I'd be waryof increasing the page count much over 100--maybe 150 max... Maybe things have changed, but that's what I remember.

An interesting thought. Personally, I hate books that are really skinny. It's just off-putting. I really like tankoubons, they're portable, fit in your hands so well, and have just the right amount of heft.

[NakedElf]

Yeah, but you're not a 6 year old who's still struggling to learn to read. Many kids see books as 'work', and the more pages a book has, the more 'work' it is.

I eagerly read things over 300 pages when I was a kid, but other kids wouldn't touch those books because they were 'too long'. (I remember thinking my cousin was an idiot because she couldn't get through 'Farmer Boy' from the Little House series.)

I think Harry Potter actually was pretty clever in that way--the first books were much shorter than the later books, getting kids used to reading more pages each time...

[Shishio]

I know I'm not, but a comic is different than a book.

Anyway. Comixpress' Digest size is 6"x9". I went to my friend's comic store today and found a book that size - the graphic novel adaptation of Pirates of the Carribean 2: Dead Man's Chest.

I think it's pretty good. Smaller than a comic, but still big enough so as to not require massive layout-fucking.

By comparison, manga books are 5"x7.5".

I can choose a custom size, so anyone have any thoughts on a specific size?

[NakedElf]

I'd wait to see what dimensions of comics you get before you start picking sizes...

[Orinocou]

Hey, man. This is a good idea you have here. I'm afraid I can't offer up my current comic (copyright drama, anyone?), though I wouldn't mind drawing a short children's story that can be accessed from Comicopia (who thought up that name, anyway?) For the longest time I've had an idea to make a story about a baby chick named Herbert. It would do well for the youngest of elementary students. This might be the kick in the butt I need to get it done.

When do you imagine this comic-promotion to take place? This coming school year?

[Dutch!]

I'd suggest that six year olds are probably just a touch on the too young side to be aiming at for this project. Yeah, there'll be some who can read well enough to give something like this a trundle, but most of them will just not have the capability or the endurance to manage.

I'd be thinking more the eight year old age as the general lower range and then up from there.

But what would I know?