new person...anyone here give a tour?

Okie · Post by **Okie** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:22 pm

A survey a couple years ago found that 51% of the country would not vote for a presidential candidate if he was an atheist.

If you look at it from the devout Oklahoma-style* Christian viewpoint, it would be impossible for an atheist to be in charge of America, a country favored by god, rich because of faith, and protected by god's grace. God wouldn't allow it. And if it happened, the country would have problems. Listen to Fallwell, he blamed 9-11 on atheists, feminists, pagans, and taking prayer out of school.

If you look at it from the atheist's viewpoint, those 51% of people are blinded by superstition. The USA is a secular country, and any native born citizen can be President. There shall be no religious test for President.

*Oklahoma is home to a couple Christian Broadcasting networks, Oral Roberts University, Rhema Bible College, etc, etc. Oklahoma is the most recent state to accuse a girl of witchcraft (happened in my town a few years ago). The head of our state ACLU had her house burned down because she protested about her children being taught the King James bible in public school.

TheGoobla · Post by **TheGoobla** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:26 pm

Okie wrote: Listen to Fallwell

Why? Its not like anyone else does...

Christwriter · Post by **Christwriter** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:27 pm

Oh.

That's...interesting.

I thing our church would have left her a door-knob-thingie and left it at that.

CW

Okie · Post by **Okie** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:49 pm

As long as you're not the kind of Christian who slashes goat throats, burns down houses, or beats people in their cars, then you're fine.

"On May 14, 1981, she received a phone call saying there was a bomb in the school and all the children were going to be killed. Joann had three children in school in grades second, fifth and ninth. Her husband had just walked in when she received the call and he drove her to school. She didn't know that the "good folks" had set her up. A large group made up of teachers, janitors and cafeteria workers surrounded their car. The door on Joann's side was forced open and a cook from the cafeteria grabbed her and pulled her through the passenger side window, banging her head repeatedly on the doorframe. When a principal finally decided "Joann had had enough" (his words in court later), he pulled her physically from her car. She suffered a dislocated shoulder, concussion, and hair loss from the back of her head."

"Several of their prize-winning livestock had their throats slashed, She also received a call saying that her home would be "next." Their attorney asked for federal protection, but it was denied. The Little Axe Prayer in School case drew nationwide attention. The Rev. Pat Robertson took their lawsuit personally and made it a part of his show's introduction every day for nearly a year."

Christwriter · Post by **Christwriter** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 4:53 pm

Well...as far as my commentary can go...

Jesus says "Love one another."

Not "Burn 'em up."

Can we talk about something else, please? I get enough of "that kind of thing" from the news.

CW

Brockway · Post by **Brockway** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 5:09 pm

BTW Okie, your comics awesome! Rue is my favorite. Just staring off into the mud puddle...

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 5:16 pm

christwriter wrote:KittyKatBlack--whoever says that athiests are automatically the enemies of Christians are COMPLETELY missing the point of Christianity...either that or they REALLY want a fight.

That's correct, but one of major problems with church is that priests actually misunderstand Christianity the very same way. Otherwise they wouldn't attack me for just listening to rock music like they did a couple of times. Or telling me that I'm not happy because I'm not going to church every sunday and having an icon on my wall.
Come to think of it, that's the very first thing that dragged me toward other side. It's not unbelieving in got or anything like that. It's just that that I hate organized religion. So now I don't go into church for principles. Last time I was in church, someone smacked me over my fingers. Why, I asked? Because I was holding my hands behind my back. Holding your hands behind your back means that you have bad intentions, they said.
The point is, I guess, that I don't believe that today's organized religion actually represents true religion.

Brockway · Post by **Brockway** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 5:25 pm

Same thing with me McDuffies (about organized religion). I'm christian, but I haven't been to a church in years cause I got sick of it. I really don't like organized religion. I don't need someone acting like they are better than me to tell me how to live when I know I'm more of a christian than they are... I can't stand that holier than thou art crap, and I just stay away now. But whatever.

Christwriter · Post by **Christwriter** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 6:39 pm

Well...I've never really felt that way, either.

This may or may not turn into a rant.

Christianity...the real thing...is more about knowing God than being good. I've had people tell me that "oh, Jesus is just your crutch" and once I get over the insult, I have to swallow the pride and admit that the statement is true.

People who heavily regulate thier behavior are afraid. Of what, I have no clue. But they are. They seem to believe they can earn perfect happienss, or heaven, or something, through thier behavior.

But the Bible never said that perfect behavior does anything but waste calories, and that's what they're supposed to be using as a reference for thier own behavior.

Believe me. I learned this the HARD WAY.

CW

Okie · Post by **Okie** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 8:32 pm

Christianity...the real thing...is more about

These religions are open to interpretation, and each person seems to think they know the "real" thing.

Nevertheless, fundies are wacko in my book.

BTW Okie, your comics awesome! Rue is my favorite. Just staring off into the mud puddle...

Prue's past will probably be the last to be revealed.

YarpsDat · Post by **YarpsDat** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 3:28 am

brockway wrote:Same thing with me McDuffies (about organized religion). I'm christian, but I haven't been to a church in years cause I got sick of it. I really don't like organized religion. I don't need someone acting like they are better than me to tell me how to live when I know I'm more of a christian than they are... I can't stand that holier than thou art crap, and I just stay away now. But whatever.

I used to be christian.
But I just grown dissapointed with organized religion.

Now I'm agnostic (I remember someone tried to convince me I should call it anti-theist, but the dictionary says I'm right).
That means I don't believe god exists, but I don't believe the god doesn't exist neither. I actually believe we'll never know either way. (actually, I think I can prove we'll never know either way...)

What I do believe in is that even if the god exists, he/she/it does not want me to go to church.

ZOMBIE USER 14998 · Post by **ZOMBIE USER 14998** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 10:53 am

YarpsDat wrote:
That means I don't believe god exists, but I don't believe the god doesn't exist neither. I actually believe we'll never know either way. (actually, I think I can prove we'll never know either way...)

Of course you can know if you really want to, but unfortunately the proceedure involves dying.

Brockway · Post by **Brockway** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 11:01 am

Okie wrote:
BTW Okie, your comics awesome! Rue is my favorite. Just staring off into the mud puddle...
Prue's past will probably be the last to be revealed.

Ah, can't believe I forgot the P in Prue...

Christwriter · Post by **Christwriter** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:03 pm

If you were anything other than an agnostic, I'd answer. But I don't want to tick somebody off badly.

And you are right...agnostics sit on the fence. Atheism is just as religious as anything else...they just go in the other extreme.

CW

YarpsDat · Post by **YarpsDat** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 3:26 pm

Don't worry I don't bite.

I don't find talking about religion offending or anything, so it would be difficult to tick me off. Big part of my family is quite religious, usualy in different flavours of christianity. I respect my mother's decision to attend church, and my father's belief in some kind of intelligent force that drives and controls the universe (the force?).
So I have no problems with other people beliefs...
Some believe, I just don't.

Ok,I have a minor issues with organized relligions, but I wouldn't go fighting people for that.
If someone wants to, it's their decision. Kinda like smoking.
You can do that, but not in my car

Christwriter · Post by **Christwriter** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 3:50 pm

Smoking...ick...

I wanna know who the first man was who said "Hey! Let me roll these leaves into a little tube, then burn them down and inhale the smoke. Oughta be fun, wouldn't you say?"

Immedately following would be the guy who said "Hey! Let's lick the back of this frog and see what happens to us!"

I'm never worried about people biting. I get to know them first. THEN I worry.

CW

Keffria · Post by **Keffria** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 3:52 pm

I'm a fence-sitter, too, I think, though I wouldn't want to give myself any fancy labels. I don't have a problem with organized religion, as long as it doesn't interfere with me personally. In fact, in a strange way, you have to admire someone who can accept that sort of thing on blind faith.

(But it irks me that high school science teachers still have to tiptoe around the idea of evolution.)

LAGtheNoggin · Post by **LAGtheNoggin** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 4:10 pm

I'm so stable on the fence that to my eyes it's a platue bigger than Mongolia.

To be honest if everyone else around me was religous I would most likely follow. As this is London and I've been brought up not to talk about religion; I, well, don't talk about religion, it's not a subject of other people's importance as far as most are concerned. Of course there are those that believe it is important their religion be known and others 'saved' but they're not in the majority as far as I can see.

Personally I don't even think about it, there's a definition for that (not agnostic) but I can't remember what...

Okie · Post by **Okie** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 4:37 pm

Atheism is just as religious as anything else...they just go in the other extreme.

Well, a religious person would see it like that. http://www.adherents.com lists Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist as the 4th largest religion.

There is no bible for atheists, there is no creation myth, there is no end-time prophesy. I have no rituals, prayers, hymns, churches. I have no bible, clergy, higher authority, or pope. I can't get faith-based funding. I have no history. I have no ties. I am alone in my atheism. Though, I know some books that I agree with on the subject. I may believe the exact same thing as other atheists, there are no gods, but I may believe it for completely different reasons.

I'd say its more of a personal philosophy than a religion. In the same way Nihilism would be. Religions are complex systems. Philosophies are extrapolations from a single theory. But Philosophy is considered out of fashion here in America, and that makes me sad.

Am I the only one here who lives in a town with a 15 foot tall rotating JESUS sign, on top of a 6 story church?

Christwriter · Post by **Christwriter** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 5:00 pm

Well...

No, there are no churches with six-stories or rotating "Jesus" signs.

However, my church just appeared in the local paper for closing on one of the larger land deals in the city.

Also: Christianity, if you really look at it, is not about blind faith. There is more than enough historical data to form an informed opinion on. One of the best lawyers in the country, for example, was an avowed agnostic with an almost virulent distaste for Christianity. He was willing to swear in court that Christ did not exist.

Then a Christian asked him if he had given the evidance of Christ the same process of study he gave the evidance in court.

Not only did the man have to look at it, he had to state that there is no jury in the world that could not declare Christ as both real and the son of God beyond a reasonable doubt. There is that much factual historical evidance about him.

But hey, it's just a story, right?

CW

Edit: I forgot...PLEASE don't shoot me!!!

For some reason, that story makes a lot of people mad.