manga style comics: hate them?

Ashess · Post by **Ashess** » Thu Mar 21, 2002 1:43 am

hmm. I based pesky on anime.. but it isn't _real_ manga, just my interpretation of it.
I think that's the way to go.. though, if you can't draw before hand, you might have to start following the manga drawing book to the letter. ideally, I'd say that after that, one should try and accomodate the manga to your own needs.
but I wonder if manga lets one. the japanese tradition is pretty stern. one might rust shut, so to say.

ZOMBIE USER 8296 · Post by **ZOMBIE USER 8296** » Thu Mar 21, 2002 5:49 am

bah, i say that the manga drawing style has less to do with the Japanese tradition then a lot of people think, especially since the gigantor eyes that are usually present can be traced back to Disney and I doubt that the Japanese culture would really smile upon girls running around in skirts that barely covered their bits

Sss · Post by **Sss** » Thu Mar 21, 2002 6:06 am

define "manga-style" please
is it the charecter design/comiclayout/plot?

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Thu Mar 21, 2002 8:00 am

Well, when I say manga, I'm thinking mainly of drawing style, cause most of manga authors don't care for other elements... Now I know that many manga lovers will be annoyed because I use term "manga" for merely manga-influenced comics, but if I used manga-influenced instead of manga every time, that would be a hell of a lot typing. Anyway, it's more semantic problem.

Oh, for that thing "what if something you like becomes popular" - well, been there, and, from expirience, I still like it like I did before. But, to see what I wanted to say, look at the most popular things: like Rickey Martin, Britney Spierse, Sailor moon, etc etc...
Radiohead or Nick Cave or Beck or (insert the thing you like) might be popular, but it's allways loosing race with abovementioned.
So when someone stumbles onto a very popular thing, it is pretty rational of him to asume that thing is more like Rickey Martin, and less like something else.

Srdjan
http://mcduffies.keenspace.com

Joshnickerson · Post by **Joshnickerson** » Thu Mar 21, 2002 12:50 pm

I think the main problem most people have with anime/manga style is that it's gotten a bit too popular and people are getting sick of it already. There are many instances of something great coming out, only to become too popular and then become hated by the general public (glances at the Pikachu figurine on his bookshelf).
I do say that there are some very, very good anime/manga style influenced comics out there (Jackie's Fridge and Exploitation Now come to mind) but for every good one, there's at least twenty or thirty bad ones, which make no sense and are poorly drawn by Dragonball Z fanboys who have nothing else to do. (OK, didn't mean to be so harsh on that last point:) )
I guess what I'm saying is, unfortunatly, right now, when people see a manga themed on-line comic, their minds automatically read "Crap" and they move onto the next one. So if you're a serious cartoonist, and you really want people to give your comic a chance, you're going to have to convince them that your comic is better than the rest. How do you do that? Well, if you find out, please let ME know!

NotoriousMEQ · Post by **NotoriousMEQ** » Thu Mar 21, 2002 4:01 pm

i too am guilty of disliking crappily drawn manga-style comics and saying things like "another stupid manga ripoff comic"...

yet i only learned to draw when i started reading manga. that a couple of japanese mangaka SERIOUISLY influenced my drawing style. That my page layouts are gut busting manga influenced even as my art style has grown more and more my own and less influenced.

but the same thing goes for american comics. "geez, another crappy superhero comic." or "arg! enough already with the computer drawn gamer comics!!!"

I usually don't like crap.

But as for poor manga, a lot of the abuse comes from fans of anime and manga who see people trying to imitate it too much without being merely INFLUENCED. They drawn in that generic "how to draw manga" style, their characters are the stereotypical anime heros and heroines, and the story usually consists of either them talking about anime all the time, or actually inserting these "original" characters into an actual anime in a sort of "tribute". Yuck.

Fandom should be kept to fandom. Your own comic should be original.

If you like an anime/manga series and want to draw IT and have no ideas for your own story- it's called a "doujinshi". You do a comic as one big fanwork, like fanfiction only a comic. It's what all would-be-mangaka do to get their name noticed. I drew TWO for violinist of Hameln before i stopped wanting to do fanworks and wanted to do an original story in my own style.

Okay, enough ranting. Moral: Don't taunt the happy fun ball.

ZOMBIE USER 7833 · Post by **ZOMBIE USER 7833** » Thu Mar 21, 2002 4:46 pm

This threads starting to get redundant. Yay for the Deparment of Redundancy Department!

Loserz Erik · Post by **Loserz Erik** » Thu Mar 21, 2002 7:56 pm

I will make a post about some of the replies being redundant, thus making myself more redundant.

Justinpie · Post by **Justinpie** » Thu Mar 21, 2002 8:34 pm

On 2002-03-21 16:01, NotoriousMEQ wrote:
time, or actually inserting these "original" characters into an actual anime in a sort of "tribute". Yuck.

My comic is a tribute. To the best song in the world.

Utukki-Girl · Post by **Utukki-Girl** » Fri Mar 22, 2002 9:42 am

Hm, well this thread had definitely been food for thought. When Michelle and I started creating our manga-style comic, we had no idea there was such a controversy over the genre; that people wouldn't read it just because it might be considered "manga."

However, I agree with all the sentiments and reservations expressed in this thread. There are a ton of mediocre comics out there, and with more popping up all the time, it can be a challenge to find the gold amidst the dross.

At the same time, though, story, intelligent writing and original characters have always been more important to me than art style. Which is why I guess I find it frustrating that my comic might be passed over by potential readers just because it's associated with manga.

Well, it's far too late to change it now. Oh well, I guess...

NotoriousMEQ · Post by **NotoriousMEQ** » Fri Mar 22, 2002 9:42 am

On 2002-03-21 20:34, justinpie wrote:
My comic is a tribute. To the best song in the world.

I couldn't remember the greatest song in the world.

Odd1 · Post by **Odd1** » Fri Mar 22, 2002 11:17 am

I'm shameless to say creating a manga-influenced comic and not reading any... (Not including my own comics

)

I tend to be dissapointed with anime-influenced webcomics. Since the best of them can be found in bookstores I don't go through the masses of manga online. Of course if everyone did this, nobody would read my comic, so I better shut up now.

Yes I do read some online manga's, but there are so few I dont want to name names.

- Liz

Scrubbo · Post by **Scrubbo** » Fri Mar 22, 2002 2:01 pm

Well, it could be worse than to be a badly drawn manga strip. Hell, I do a badly drawn Garfield rip off.

(And chigger, I was pretty sure you were joking too, but you gotta go with it when you see it!)

JPSloan · Post by **JPSloan** » Fri Mar 22, 2002 2:14 pm

On 2002-03-22 09:42, Utukki-Girl wrote:
... it can be a challenge to find the gold amidst the dross

OK, you get points for just saying that!!

Actually, your strip has nothing to worry about, IMO. Your specially prepared graphics for the site, where you've spent more time with the CG, are quite good.

SuperJoe · Post by **SuperJoe** » Sat Mar 23, 2002 3:40 pm

...what are we talking about?

Psiogen · Post by **Psiogen** » Sat Mar 23, 2002 4:32 pm

On 2002-03-23 15:40, SuperJoe wrote:
...what are we talking about?

The mating habits of the mastadon, silly.

Justinpie · Post by **Justinpie** » Sat Mar 23, 2002 5:28 pm

On 2002-03-23 15:40, SuperJoe wrote:
...what are we talking about?

On 2002-03-23 16:32, Psiogen wrote:
The mating habits of the mastadon, silly.

Not the best, were they? Considering.

Post by **Kisai** » Sat Mar 23, 2002 7:04 pm

One of the reasons some people don't like "webcomic manga" is because it's "manga" by the author's decision, not by stylistic or storytelling nature.

For example, if you look at your average manga from a store, there is a distinct character style, panel style, text for special effects, gradients, inking, etc.

But many online webcomics don't make use of the same properties.

A web-manga may be greyscale or color, however it has a distict detailed manga drawing style (Computer shaded manga style-http://rydia.net/flipside/comic.html , Classic Manga style -http://www.eversummereve.com/5page6.html)

Of which notdamonk will insist that the latter is more of true manga style.

If you want to get into the nitty gritty, Exploitation Now ( http://www.exploitationnow.com ) is not manga. It combines anime-styled drawings with american style panel layourts and inking types. Likewise Wendy and CuteWendy ( http://www.cutewendy.com ) only use a anime-like drawing style (and Lesnick will insist it's not anime style) with very different scene structure.

The next reason people get uppity about "webmanga" is that the writing style is not "manga" like. Manga does not have a punchline at the end of every page. Many manga or anime-styled comics use something similar to the "situation-conflict-punchline" on every comic (Which in itself isn't a bad thing) however they seem to run out of ideas and recycle ideas from prior comics or swipe them from other comics, manga, tv shows, or whatever is a fad at the time.

The writing style is what usually annoys me more. Something might look promising in the first few comics, but then the author runs out of steam and starts changing things or demolishing the fourth wall.

What many people consider 'manga' or are calling 'manga' , is not in fact manga, and that is what usually bothers people #1 . The second reason is that the "originality" may not be as original as the author intended.

So you have two teens at school, how does this vary from the other 200 comics with teens at school? What about the other 1000 manga that is sold in a comic store?

I think one of the reasons many comics don't appeal to me is because:

1. It's been done to death.
2. The artwork is so-so, but the writing is also so-so
3. The artwork is super-cool-wow but the writing is non-existant (or the comic doesn't update enough to warrant checking back.)
4. The artwork is good, but feels like a knock-off of something else (fan-comics, fan-fiction and non-canon works trying to pass off as genuine.)
5. The plot/story is repeatative or becomes sterotyped. (Character Y can never get a date with Character X, but the story is always about Character Y trying to get a date with Character X, never resolving.)

6. Drawing of characters is good, writing is good, but there are no backgrounds, or too much white/black space.

One thing I should point out however is that "manga" is not "a gag cartoon" , Super-Deformed mini-comics that appear as intermissions or thought bubbles that appear are gag comic portion of manga. Likewise for anime on TV, there are eyecatch sequences on some anime shows (that are editied out on american TV to squeeze in more commercials) that have a one-shot gag in them.

All I'm saying is that the people who don't like "manga" webcomics don't like it usually because it IS NOT manga.

Some pesudo-manga (has been influenced by anime or manga) can be fairly good, but some pseudo-manga tries to pass itself off as manga and draws more scrutiny that it would have by just being a "webcomic"

ZOMBIE USER 8296 · Post by **ZOMBIE USER 8296** » Sat Mar 23, 2002 8:57 pm

so, Kisai, what you're trying to say, in not so many words, is that a good reason many people don't like webcomics that try to pass themselves off as manga by just the drawing style is because the creators of the comic don't go all the way and also use a manga type writing style, format and don't actually put much effort into being original(among other things)?

PDI · Post by **PDI** » Sun Mar 24, 2002 2:59 am

Why, oh, why must this topic be posted here again and again and again?

Like, three months apart, tops!