bad anatomy?

Ashess · Post by **Ashess** » Sun Mar 17, 2002 2:40 am

I'm totally shocked. I 've been getting reviews from real nice people, telling me my comic's got potential ad all, but I really need to work on my anatomy. I don't get it.
I've followed model drawing classes for 2 1/2 years in artschool, plus some I did on the side. now, I _know_ I'm good at it. hell, I was the best there. why?
what's wrong with my comic's anatomy?

Matt Wilson · Post by **Matt Wilson** » Sun Mar 17, 2002 4:26 am

First of all, everyone will tell you you need work on your anatomy. It's just one of those things about cartooning. Employers at Marvel are especially like that.

Second of all, you DO need work on your anatomy. Noone's perfect. And maybe you were the "best" there, but that means nothing when put in a resume. What if everyone else in your class was terrible?

You have to stop looking at it like you're the only one with a clue. Take a look at your comic and then take a look at, say, Clan of the Cats. Do you honestly think you could compete with her at your level?

Noone's excempt from practice practice practice, and that certainly includes you.

Ashess · Post by **Ashess** » Sun Mar 17, 2002 4:36 am

auch.

heh, look. I don't mean it's perfect or anything. the inking's still, well. uh. I'm working on that- but I though anatomie and gestures and stuff were, all in all, ok.
considering it's children an I'm still not used to drawing those.. uh. K.

Nick Sacco · Post by **Nick Sacco** » Sun Mar 17, 2002 6:12 am

In my opinion, anatomy in a lot of comic styles is a mute point. I'm really poor at anatomy, and you can tell by my comic style. But that's the whole point; I've modeled my comic style to what it is. That's the anatomy my characters have, and it's the right one for me.

You're characters seem to be smaller, sort of like chibi. That's not "correct anatomy", but it's "your correct anatomy".

Ashess · Post by **Ashess** » Sun Mar 17, 2002 6:56 am

of course it's simplified. everything, from background to anatomy. that's why it's a comic, right? but if you do it right, it shouldn't matter that it's simplified. the gestures and bodylanguage should be caught all the same -exactly because we know anatomy.
I'm confused.

McDuffies · Post by **McDuffies** » Sun Mar 17, 2002 8:31 am

Actually, anatomy is the hardest task in learning to draw. That's why people usually tell you you need to work on your anatomy. I heard that a lot of times myself.
The clue is that everyone needs to work on his anatomy, even profesionals. I'm guessing only classis painters and Hal Foster had perfect anatomy. But all others make mestakes now and then. 'Course, our mestakes happen more often.
I say, when someone tells you to work on your anatomy next time, tell him: "Tell me something I don't know!"

Srdjan
http://mcduffies.keenspace.com

MrPokeyCactus · Post by **MrPokeyCactus** » Sun Mar 17, 2002 8:39 am

Anatomy can be one hard thing to tackle. Things like hands and body structure are important to convey a professional comic, but in my opinion, is not everything. if you look at my comic, I constantly use Lollypop hands. it doesn't mean I'm terrible with hands, it's just that I'm trying to portray simpleness. But yeah.

Shoe · Post by **Shoe** » Sun Mar 17, 2002 9:04 am

My characters have mitten hands God Damnit. MITTEN HANDS.

Not damonk · Post by **Not damonk** » Sun Mar 17, 2002 10:47 am

hi ashess,

i took the time to go through your archives so i could see whether these people who are writing to you are correct in their assessment, and i have come to the following conclusions:

While you (obviously) show a very good knowledge of anatomical proportion, you are not quite consistent enough yet with it, particularly when it comes to drawing Pesky herself.

You have a decent grasp of perspective and foreshortening, and for the most part, you manage to make the body positions look natural enough.

But consider these examples:

1) in this example, Pesky's body positioning is very awkward in the first panel-- for the "camera angle" which you give her, the right shoulder and arm are out of place, and she is given an unnatural hunchback

2) in this example, the last panel has her left arm in a skew of proportion and misaligned foreshortening

3) in this example, her torso and shouldres are disproportionnate with her much shorter legs throughout (and i've noticed that with Pesky, and pretty much only Pesky, you give her largeish shoulders that are much too unrealistic for a little child)

4) in this example, we find Pesky's new "friend" sporting an adult figure (i.e., the distinct shape of breasts) in the last panel

5) in this example, thelast panel shows us a Pesky that is twisted beyond a shape the human form can take -- the spine can't 's'-curve is that contorted a way when turned in her position

6) in this, we first find that Pesky's size is not proportionnate to the girl's sizew anymore -- Pesky's upper torso is practically drawn at the same size as all of the other girl! also, her head is "squished" in the first panel...

7) in this example, her friend is grotesquely hump-backed in the second panel. Also, Pesky's arms don't work well (the shirt sleeves squeeze into the torso when gthey shouldn't)

in this, Pesky's hand is reversed in the first panel, her position awkward, and the alien's stance in the first panel is likewise not natural (his thighs are stuck together, which, considering the bend in his upper torso, doesn't make for a stable or realistic stance)... one more thing: is that a breast outline on Pesky in the first panel?

...

Now these are just some specific examples, ashess, to show you instances where your anatomical proportionning was less than perfect.

Overall, you DO have a good sense of how to draw figures -- one comic that i liked was this one... the first panel has Pesky a little skewed, but the dynamic perspective makes up for it. And in the remaining panels, the proportions and such are very nicely accomplished, and the hand in the third panel VERY nicely done.

So... my conclusion is THIS: i think that the people who say you should work on your anatomy are not quite on the money with their critique, as you DO show knowledge of proprortion and perspective.

But what they likely meant to say, and what I say to you is this -- you have to work on your consistency. The heads shift in size and shape with no real purpose, and as i have shown in some examples, you make slip ups. The alien, in particular, has no set shape it seems -- you have him bulkier one strip, then slinkier the next... etc.

But don't take this as harsh crit, ashess. I'm only trying to help you see what the other "critics" may have had an idea about.

All in all, you have a much BETTER command of anatomy than a NUMBER of webtoonists out there -- you're luckythat what you have to work on now is just TWEAKING, rather than having to learn all the basics.

(PS -- I'm pretty certain that Jamie Robertson, who draws Clan of the Cats, is a GUY, just so you know...)

Psiogen · Post by **Psiogen** » Sun Mar 17, 2002 11:37 am

To add to what Damonk... uhh... I mean... that guy who isn't Damonk... said:
The one thing that really throws me off is the hair. It sometimes seems just... incorrectly connected to the head, like the characters are wearing bad wigs. (I think mainly because the hair doesn't always reach down to the ears.)
This seems to happen when the characters are seen in profile.

Ashess · Post by **Ashess** » Sun Mar 17, 2002 1:08 pm

to notdamonk:
wow.

thanks. that's a lot of useful stuff.
you're definitely wright about just about all of it. (though giving pesky the shoulders is on purpose. she also acts a lot older then she is)
what makes me feel better is knowing that all the mistakes you mentioned are from really old cartoons (more then 3 years) which I then carbon-copied with a pen.
back then you just had 'aliens'. now I think of them as 'Bill': 2m tall and more muscular then should be healthy. (yes, pesky's daily has only been around 2 months, but my scetchbook is a little older)
one of the reasons I'm redoing al the old jokes is that the way I draw the 'peskies' has changes fundamentally too.
but still, you're right. I got a little sloppy, especially with consistency.
guess I'll just have to practise.

Ashess · Post by **Ashess** » Sun Mar 17, 2002 1:11 pm

psiogen: all the characters, or just thomath (pesky's bro). I know I have a little trouble with his hair, cause I don't want him to have much yet, but he needs these three distinctive strokes sticking out.

Shoe · Post by **Shoe** » Sun Mar 17, 2002 1:24 pm

I think it's pretty well done. I don't think humorous comics have to be exactly fucking perfect, as long as it makes sense. Nor do they have to be coloured for that matter.

Not damonk · Post by **Not damonk** » Sun Mar 17, 2002 2:03 pm

i agree with you completely, shoe.

but i responded in kind because ashess actually asked us about the issue of anatomy.

And since i honestly only want to help any and all fellow toonists, i pointed out exactly what she wanted to have pointed out, is all.

Shoe · Post by **Shoe** » Sun Mar 17, 2002 3:14 pm

Yea, nothing against you or anything. I'm just expressing my opinion.

Ashess · Post by **Ashess** » Sun Mar 17, 2002 3:33 pm

heh. yeah, you're right shoe. all the same, I like to get it straight. call it an honor thing.

Psiogen · Post by **Psiogen** » Sun Mar 17, 2002 9:07 pm

On 2002-03-17 13:11, ashess wrote:
psiogen: all the characters, or just thomath (pesky's bro). I know I have a little trouble with his hair, cause I don't want him to have much yet, but he needs these three distinctive strokes sticking out.

Nope, it's not just him. The most obvious example is the last panel of yesterday's strip, where it afflicts both characters:
http://pesky.keenspace.com/d/20020317.html
When drawing a human face in profile, always make sure the ears touch the hair, unless they're supposed to have a mohawk. It's not a very obvious detail, but it makes a big difference. Here's one of my "famous" crappily mouse-drawn visual aids

:

_________________
s y l v a n

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Psiogen on 2002-03-17 21:09 ]</font>

Ashess · Post by **Ashess** » Sun Mar 17, 2002 10:34 pm

huh. yeah you're right. just sloppiness. but it ain't pretty. thanks/

Mixed Myth · Post by **Mixed Myth** » Wed Mar 27, 2002 11:48 am

Anatomy is hard...especially when you're trying to incorperate different angles. What's even harder for me, though, is backgrounds. THERE'S something I really need to learn. Sometime I'm going to just sit down with a photo of some landscape or building, and just draw it until I get it right.

JPSloan · Post by **JPSloan** » Wed Mar 27, 2002 12:15 pm

OK, story time...

Back in August when I got up the nerve to attempt to learn how to draw a cartoon, I considered myself lucky if the damned thing came off as recognizable! I had never even tried to draw anything before then.

So I just picked out a couple strips with wildly differing styles, and freehanded away! I paid attention to what their hands were doing to communicate certain things.

Then I just whooped out my own characters, and stuck them in a situation. I'm no artist, but I'm a writer (as I keep saying and driving people nuts about).

But here's the funny thing. I got to the point where my drawings weren't "good" by any stretch... but were "good enough" to communicate my jokes. And that's all I ever wanted to do. As long as the vehicle continued to generate laughs, I wasn't at all concerned about artistic mastery. I'd leave that up to the real artists.

And I guess that makes me a hack. I guess it also puts me in that enormous pool of generic Keenspacer-come-lately's at whom several veterans roll their eyes.

I dug in my heels, decided that I was ok with that, and pushed forward towards my next obstacle, which was consistent posting.

And now six months later, a funny damn thing has happened. Through conversations with other 'spacers, I have developed a strong interest in learning how to actually draw. I've snatched my wife's figure model book, and have spent several hours over several evenings freehanding real anatomy. I'm even thinking about taking a class.

Moral of the story seems to be... your webcomic can be a destination, or a stepping stone. There's more to a comic than art... particularly if humor's your emphasis (thank you, Boxjam!). But the whole of what it represents should have a plan, a substance, and your TLC. With that, and time, it will only improve.