Comics for the Sight Impaired

[Phact0rri]

sorry bud this isn't set in stone statement, not a yes and no. Comics do not and never have had a set of parameters defining them within a medium.

Operas do:

An Opera must contain four and only four pieces of music to which the entire context of the operetta is set. They must be repeated in specific intervals - the introduction of both Hero, Heroine and Villain must be performed through three of these for pieces by what has since been defined as a soloist heavyweight piece.

Okay little music lesson for you. A symphony is written structured in four movements. This is because during the baroque period it was believed that a proper piece of music should contain four pieces to make it complete. As may be noticed... Operas follow the same strict rules of proper classical music, and for good reason. Operas like symphonies were written for royals and nobility and played in Court. And if music didn't follow certain form and function well, the nobles wouldn't be to pleased by this lack of tact.

As I was saying before it was the agreed type of music structure of the time that characterizes opera. I'm actually the wrong person to get into a debate regarding opera. I've studied it most of my life. I have an aria tattooed on my back.

Now Comicstips ALSO had an agreed four rectangle pattern of the time complete with an agreed pallet of printable colors. and for good reason, editors had a certain space and only certain colours they could print with. This was my point. These days, there is less structure in Comicbooks just like there is less structure in the various genres of modern music. we grow we get new ideas, we break the bars.
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The arguement was posted that it would cease to be a comic, and I was pointing out that position was posed through the false pretense that comics ever had any sort of definition. They don't.

This is silly. You know full well you are talking about sequential art. Sequential art has form and function just like any medium. To press on that its still a 'comic' cause a comic doesn't have a proper definition won't get us anywhere into a discussion on the merits of the proposed idea. So you know where talking about... a page of sequential art will not be sequential art if its audio.

It was also argued that it would be impossible and not worth the time to even try to translate something from one medium to another, and yet that's exactly what novels, plays, musicals and operas do with great success - i.e. even the creator of the piece him or herself does not know what will and will not be successful until they try it. The literal definition of the word Comic transcends mediums - so it still would be a comic even if it's a novel or a drawn picture.

Okay, I must be really bad at making myself understood so again we both know that adaptions are great. but they should not be called what they are not. I don't want to hear Ride of the Valkyries and be told its a novel. I really don't agree that a novel can be called a comic. I can be called a comedy. But a comic is not a genre of comedy.

My teacher at Arapahoe Community College disagrees with you, he is deaf, and while not blind, clearly believes that websites should make themselves accessible to those with hearing impairment.

The creators of lil'abner had his entire strip read aloud on the raidio world wide for not just the blind but those without newspapers.

I have no problems with either of these things. Websites should be accessible for those with disabilties. And like I said before supplimenting an audio version is great. However it should not be targeting disabilities. It should be done for anyone who wants an audio version. Just like Lil' abner he did it for everyone not just for the blind.

Large Text does not solve all the problems with visually impairments. Dyslexia is also a form of impairment which some argue is visual.

Audio is not an answer for those that suffer severe cased of Dyslexia, either. As Dyslexia is a mental condition, and goes beyond the visual parameters. Movement and and sound are also affected by the Disorder.

To top it off I linked a website whose entire organization disagrees with you and actuall has web classes telling people how to make their websites accessible to the visually impaired - that includes graphical elements. Creating accessibility is not "reminding someone of what they can and can't do". Denying accessibility IS "reminding someone of what they can and can't do."

Making information accessible to the visually impared and disabled is important. But again webcomics, are really not that big of a deal. There are more important reasons why many websites should be in audio. Like medical websites, like news websites, like forums. However I find it hard to believe that the blind really want to spend thier time listening to Penny aracade. I really don't think they care.

I'm sorry, I'm not going to agree with you on this, bud. but, friends still?

Don't take this to seriously. Its but a discussion. I don't take it personally, and its rare for me to get angry and mad. However I really don't think this conversation is going anywhere. You have made up your mind.. so good luck in what ever you do.

I think its great you care about the disabled. Its great you want them to enjoy your comics. However, I stand by my thoughts that you should not label it for the hearing impared. Even if that's your sole reason for doing it.

We can agree to disagree here... your heart is in the right place, and your mind is made up.

[Killbert-Robby]

I'm just going to say, don't be too hard on yourself with the "I have a hard time making myself understood", cause, well, everyone else knew what you were going on about <_<

[Mr.Bob]

[McDuffies]

Okay little music lesson for you. A symphony is written structured in four movements. This is because during the baroque period it was believed that a proper piece of music should contain four pieces to make it complete.

I personally think it's three.

Now Comicstips ALSO had an agreed four rectangle pattern of the time complete with an agreed pallet of printable colors. and for good reason, editors had a certain space and only certain colours they could print with. This was my point. These days, there is less structure in Comicbooks just like there is less structure in the various genres of modern music. we grow we get new ideas, we break the bars.

This reminds me of that old arguement with Paul Escobar about what was the first comic ever which touched upon what are elements that actually define comic medium, because it's basically a graphic narration but surely it's not just that, there are a lot of other elements too. I don't think one sentence would do it. More like, a full page of elements which are important for the medium, which may or may not be included, but in vast majority of cases will be included.

Okay, I must be really bad at making myself understood so again we both know that adaptions are great. but they should not be called what they are not. I don't want to hear Ride of the Valkyries and be told its a novel. I really don't agree that a novel can be called a comic. I can be called a comedy. But a comic is not a genre of comedy.

You guys should have just done what we did and adopted a foreign word for comics, which doesn't mean anything else in your language.

[Kirb]

[NinjaNezumi]

I have enjoyed our current debate, Phact0rri, ^_^

ty for being cordial about it ^_^

sorry bud this isn't set in stone statement, not a yes and no. Comics do not and never have had a set of parameters defining them within a medium.

Operas do:

An Opera must contain four and only four pieces of music to which the entire context of the operetta is set. They must be repeated in specific intervals - the introduction of both Hero, Heroine and Villain must be performed through three of these for pieces by what has since been defined as a soloist heavyweight piece.

Okay little music lesson for you. A symphony is written structured in four movements. This is because during the baroque period it was believed that a proper piece of music should contain four pieces to make it complete. As may be noticed... Operas follow the same strict rules of proper classical music, and for good reason. Operas like symphonies were written for royals and nobility and played in Court. And if music didn't follow certain form and function well, the nobles wouldn't be to pleased by this lack of tact.

What you said doesn't counter what I said, you just went a bit more into detail which really isn't pertinent to the discussion.

As I was saying before it was the agreed type of music structure of the time that characterizes opera. I'm actually the wrong person to get into a debate regarding opera. I've studied it most of my life. I have an aria tattooed on my back.

You're also sidetracking the entire point I was making. I was basically hinting to you that you were creating a false analogy by trying to compare a "strictly structured and orderly defined description pertaining to a specific medium" with "contend description that crosses multiple mediums".

Operas are specifically structured constructions within the musical medium

Comics are an unsctructured description which crosses - spoken, visual and musical mediums.

Yes, I said musical mediums.

Now Comicstips ALSO had an agreed four rectangle pattern of the time complete with an agreed pallet of printable colors. and for good reason, editors had a certain space and only certain colours they could print with. This was my point. These days, there is less structure in Comicbooks just like there is less structure in the various genres of modern music. we grow we get new ideas, we break the bars.
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Incorrect.

Cartoon Strips found on the Comics Page have never ever been confined to rectangle, or square patterns. I've been trying for 8 years to get Puppy Rayn published and took any number of classes and bought many many books on getting syndicated. I'll be happy to link the newspaper syndicates and highlight where they say "there's no hard fast requirements" if you want. But I don't think we need to go that route. This is evidenced in several copies of annotated far side collections, as well as various cartoonist societies. Now the real issue in the cartooning industry is newspapers who continually change their layout requirements, causing issues for the syndicates.

Cartoon is the word for which you are looking. Not comic. Comicstrip is a slang term. The real term is Cartoon.

Now, before you say - cartoon means a moving picture. No, that's animation. Cartoon Animation. Stop Motion Animation. Etc.... Cartoon is the word which means drawn picture as a caricature.


It's kinda like when people see the St. Stephen's Tower and call it Big Ben. It's wrong. I don't care how many people point to the tower and say "That's Big Ben" it's still gonna be wrong.

Big Ben is the giant bell. It's not even the clockwork mechanism! People even manage to get that one wrong.


Now, what's funny about the slang phrase Comicstrip, is that it can only apply to a cartoon published in a newspaper. So... if we are using the slang term, nothing on any website can ever use that term. Why? Because it was slang developed from copy editors who'd slap it on the printing plates.

Audio is not an answer for those that suffer severe cased of Dyslexia, either. As Dyslexia is a mental condition, and goes beyond the visual parameters. Movement and and sound are also affected by the Disorder.

That's Mental Aphasia, it's quite a bit different than Dyslexia, and the national dyslexics association whatever they're called (i forget at the moment), has been running a pretty serious campaign against the confusion between Mental Aphasia and Dyslexia. Dyslexia is a term which applies only to the condition which affects the written word. More than a few doctors have tried to treat both conditions with the others 'treatment', this has resulted in disaster. The 'treatments' for living with both conditions are very, very different.

Don't take this to seriously. Its but a discussion. I don't take it personally, and its rare for me to get angry and mad. However I really don't think this conversation is going anywhere. You have made up your mind.. so good luck in what ever you do.

I have fun discussing ^_^ I'm glad you don't take it anymore seriously than I! ^_^


ok I will stop replying ^_^

but ty none the less for your input ^_^

[Komiyan]

[Pimpette]

[McDuffies]

It's kinda like when people see the St. Stephen's Tower and call it Big Ben. It's wrong. I don't care how many people point to the tower and say "That's Big Ben" it's still gonna be wrong.

Big Ben is the giant bell. It's not even the clockwork mechanism! People even manage to get that one wrong.

That's a figure of speech called synecdoche (a term denoting a part of something is used to refer to the whole thing etc...) in which they're reffering to the whole consisting of tower, bell and the clock, using it's most well known part, ie the bell.
So they're not as much wrong as using poetic language.

That's semantics...

[Evil Jamie!]

[McDuffies]

How comes you're immune to headache, Jamie?

[Evil Jamie!]

Because, McDuffies, I'm so smooth.

[McDuffies]

Smooth as an aspirin.

[NinjaNezumi]

It's kinda like when people see the St. Stephen's Tower and call it Big Ben. It's wrong. I don't care how many people point to the tower and say "That's Big Ben" it's still gonna be wrong.

Big Ben is the giant bell. It's not even the clockwork mechanism! People even manage to get that one wrong.

That's a figure of speech called synecdoche (a term denoting a part of something is used to refer to the whole thing etc...) in which they're reffering to the whole consisting of tower, bell and the clock, using it's most well known part, ie the bell.
So they're not as much wrong as using poetic language.

That's semantics...

And I will still correct it whenever I hear it.

[Turnsky]

It's kinda like when people see the St. Stephen's Tower and call it Big Ben. It's wrong. I don't care how many people point to the tower and say "That's Big Ben" it's still gonna be wrong.

Big Ben is the giant bell. It's not even the clockwork mechanism! People even manage to get that one wrong.

That's a figure of speech called synecdoche (a term denoting a part of something is used to refer to the whole thing etc...) in which they're reffering to the whole consisting of tower, bell and the clock, using it's most well known part, ie the bell.
So they're not as much wrong as using poetic language.

That's semantics...

And I will still correct it whenever I hear it.

and i will correct you in that statement in how it's a part of the Palace of Westminster, or Houses of Parliament, as it's more commonly known.

[Killbert-Robby]

It's kinda like when people see the St. Stephen's Tower and call it Big Ben. It's wrong. I don't care how many people point to the tower and say "That's Big Ben" it's still gonna be wrong.

Big Ben is the giant bell. It's not even the clockwork mechanism! People even manage to get that one wrong.

and i will correct you in that statement in how it's a part of the Palace of Westminster, or Houses of Parliament, as it's more commonly known.

I'm going to get another "Dont bash Ninja >:(" tongue lashing for this, but even people who were Londoners for generations don't correct that. It seems kind of... petty I guess is the word.


And also, here comes my correction.
If you're going to correct people on something small like that, be RIGHT. The tower Big Ben is in is called, drum roll please, Clock Tower. It's a fairly common mistake, make no worries, but St Stephen's tower is -

that one, the one at the entrance. Victoria Tower on the left, Clock Tower on the right, St Stephen's in the middle.

[McDuffies]

Oh, there's an interesting story I've been meaning to tell. A few weeks ago we went to a museum to an exibition of photographs made by blind people. There were several artists exibited, and each photograph was covered by a sheet on which was written a quote by the photographer, describing what he/she imagined photograph looked like, what they were photographing, how they intended to arrange the objects, whether they noticed any accidental elements (cars passing by, etc). So when you read what the photo is supposed to be, you uncover the photo and see what it actually looks like.
It was quite interesting, actually.

[Fishies]

Well I saw this and thought of this thread so...

I read a comic where under the comics page they posted the script in text format. It was a parody comic that used screenshots from the movie it was riffing though. It's a bit different than many other comics as most of it's humor came from the text instead of the actual pictures. The actual pictures were really secondary and most of the time I didn't look at them while reading.

This would not work as well for a lot of other comics.

[Rkolter]

Oh, there's an interesting story I've been meaning to tell. A few weeks ago we went to a museum to an exibition of photographs made by blind people. There were several artists exibited, and each photograph was covered by a sheet on which was written a quote by the photographer, describing what he/she imagined photograph looked like, what they were photographing, how they intended to arrange the objects, whether they noticed any accidental elements (cars passing by, etc). So when you read what the photo is supposed to be, you uncover the photo and see what it actually looks like.
It was quite interesting, actually.

I would really like to see this exhibition actually. This sounds interesting.

[NinjaNezumi]

It's kinda like when people see the St. Stephen's Tower and call it Big Ben. It's wrong. I don't care how many people point to the tower and say "That's Big Ben" it's still gonna be wrong.

Big Ben is the giant bell. It's not even the clockwork mechanism! People even manage to get that one wrong.

and i will correct you in that statement in how it's a part of the Palace of Westminster, or Houses of Parliament, as it's more commonly known.

I'm going to get another "Dont bash Ninja >:(" tongue lashing for this, but even people who were Londoners for generations don't correct that. It seems kind of... petty I guess is the word.

I don't mind your posts when you post like this, so I'm perfectly fine with it.

And also, here comes my correction.
If you're going to correct people on something small like that, be RIGHT. The tower Big Ben is in is called, drum roll please, Clock Tower. It's a fairly common mistake, make no worries, but St Stephen's tower is -

that one, the one at the entrance. Victoria Tower on the left, Clock Tower on the right, St Stephen's in the middle.

Not that I think you're lying but when I checked one of the Big Ben Society sites at the time of my original post they didn't agree :O


So let me research this again:

In looking it up on the parliament website it does refer to it as Clock Tower:
http://www.parliament.uk/visiting/visit ... bigben.cfm

However when you look up other sites on the construction of the Clock Tower, they state that there was some issue with creating the clock tower because of problems created my the architect.
Sites such as this: http://www.bigben.freeservers.com/history.html

Ah Ha! I found a "wiki site" which seems to explain the mass confusion on the issue:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Big_Ben

The things you learn when forced to do research ^_^ I take your correction and shall remember why and how the confusion arose ^_^