Race in Comics

[PieceOfSkunk]

And I'm debating over making a villain character Hispanic, but I worry that that's not a good idea.)

Aww, you can't back out of making a villain Hispanic, 'cause then I'll feel bad about making one of -my- villains hispanic.

*dueling banjos* It's a Hispanic-Off!

[Sincerely]

Ouch...

[Mo]

I chose Imo's main character to be of (so far unknown) mixed race simply because I find people of mixed race often prettier and more interesting looking, it's just my personal taste and has nothing to do with political or ethical opinions. I also found it fit the character and gave room for an interesting backstory.

But I did grow up in a city that's populated by many nationalities and races, and the location in the comic is sort of based on that place. Also, especially when you're German and in my generation, the issue of racism is being brought up literally all the time at school and everywhere because of history, and even more so in a city like Berlin with a lot of diversity. That's why it feels kind of natural for me to somehow include the issue in a comic that's meant to be a bit serious and that's located where it is. Though racism will never be the core theme of the comic.

[Phact0rri]

I rarely give race much thought.. as I'm so use to other races about me. basically all my characters are caucassian save for the android, and his looks mirror my own so he's probably a native american android or something.

[Bustertheclown]

Candi is mixed, like myself: Her dad was Jewish and her mom is Black Caribbean from St. Maarten. She's heavily influenced by Miami Hispanic culture because of her friends from when she was younger.

I hope you'll excuse the racism in this remark, but Jewish and Caribbean? That's like a power recipe for hotness! No wonder every time I look at your avatar, I think to myself, "She's as cute as a button in the shape of a hot chick!"


In other news:

I realized last night, as I was uploading some of my favorite comic strips to deviantART, that I actually DO use race, and rather intentionally, in some of my comics. You see, race issues are a veritable candy store for satire. I've created characters based upon the satirical value of the racial stereotype, like one of my favorite characters, Nacho Sangria. He's a Mexican bandito, and I use him to address social issues like class warfare. I can have him do and say things that I only wish I could get away with doing and saying, and it's because I've chosen a stereotype that historically supports the outlaw mentality of what I'm going for.

I think that's where stereotyping can be a good thing for humorists. I'm TRYING to address the offense of stereotyping by using stereotypes, and I get no feedback about it. Meanwhile people like Jackhass go and put a little curly hair on the head, a little tint on the skin, and a certain curve to the nose, it's taken as racism against Arabs, even when nothing overtly racial has been addressed. I guess, in a wierd way, if you give people overt racial caricatures straight up, they aren't going to jump on you for racism. If you put it in front of their faces, in big, bold red letters, they aren't going to waste their time looking for subtle slights, and you can move on to the issues that you really want to address.

I find myself wondering how far I can take this theory without having my house fire-bombed. As I write this, I'm growing more and more aware of just how strange and arbitrary racial issues can be, no matter what side you're standing on.

I do think it's worth noting, however, that if you're addressing racial issues and racial stereotypes right up front, without pulling punches, it seems to be more accepted than if you're doing as more of a tangent. For instance, I always hated Captain Planet, mostly because it inadvertantly called upon every stereotype in the book in finding its five world representatives to preach "unity". If you're going to do things wrong, you'd might as well stand up and announce from the outset that you know you're doing things wrong, and intended to in the first place. At least then, people can't accuse you of being a hypocrite, even if they are accusing you of being a bigot.

[FinbarReilly]

And there's an episde of Bugs Bunny that's rarely shown now called "Bugs Bunny Nips the Nips."

Playing Devil's Advocate for a sec: I'm not sure that's a legit example, as it was made during WWII (1944 specifically).

As an interesting side note (I hope): In the mid-90's a lot of writers stopped using non-white characters. A lot of the minority groups started threatening legal action if a show featured a person of X race without having a writer of X race on the show. However, as there was an unexpected bump: Apparently there weren't enough non-white TV writers, so the obvious solution was to stop using non-white characters. Thankfully, that's changed: That edict is gone, and there are more minority writers.

FR

[TheSuburbanLetdown]

And there's an episde of Bugs Bunny that's rarely shown now called "Bugs Bunny Nips the Nips."

Playing Devil's Advocate for a sec: I'm not sure that's a legit example, as it was made during WWII (1944 specifically).

Yeah, that's why I almost didn't mention it, but I did anyway. Something like that would never fly this day and age.

[Escushion]

And there's an episde of Bugs Bunny that's rarely shown now called "Bugs Bunny Nips the Nips."

Playing Devil's Advocate for a sec: I'm not sure that's a legit example, as it was made during WWII (1944 specifically).

Yeah, that's why I almost didn't mention it, but I did anyway. Something like that would never fly this day and age.

If you buy the $1 cartoon DVDs in Wal-Mart, you'll end up seeing a lot of WWII propoganda cartoons.

[Bustertheclown]

Playing Devil's Advocate for a sec: I'm not sure that's a legit example, as it was made during WWII (1944 specifically).

Yeah, that's why I almost didn't mention it, but I did anyway. Something like that would never fly this day and age.

If you buy the $1 cartoon DVDs in Wal-Mart, you'll end up seeing a lot of WWII propoganda cartoons.

Personally, I'm glad for that. I own a shitload of those dvds, and I think they're great. Nothing pisses me off more than whitewashing over objectionable material from the past, as if it had never existed. It's that sort of bleeding-heart denial that eventually leads to the same ignorance that spawned the offensive material in the first place. The ugly stuff deserves just as much space in history as the pretty stuff. We need to face our failures while we celebrate our victories.

[Sincerely]

As an interesting side note (I hope): In the mid-90's a lot of writers stopped using non-white characters. A lot of the minority groups started threatening legal action if a show featured a person of X race without having a writer of X race on the show. However, as there was an unexpected bump: Apparently there weren't enough non-white TV writers, so the obvious solution was to stop using non-white characters. Thankfully, that's changed: That edict is gone, and there are more minority writers.

FR

And suddenly TV is flooded with shows with "all black" casts. You get token white guys instead of token black guys. I don't understand that at all.

[MixedMyth]

Poor Buster. You just need to find the right idiots!

[Bustertheclown]

Poor Buster. You just need to find the right idiots!

Yes, I dream of someday pissing people off by making them think too hard and hurting their head.

[TheSuburbanLetdown]

Yeah, that's why I almost didn't mention it, but I did anyway. Something like that would never fly this day and age.

If you buy the $1 cartoon DVDs in Wal-Mart, you'll end up seeing a lot of WWII propoganda cartoons.

Personally, I'm glad for that. I own a shitload of those dvds, and I think they're great. Nothing pisses me off more than whitewashing over objectionable material from the past, as if it had never existed. It's that sort of bleeding-heart denial that eventually leads to the same ignorance that spawned the offensive material in the first place. The ugly stuff deserves just as much space in history as the pretty stuff. We need to face our failures while we celebrate our victories.

That's why I like seeing this stuff too. It's a diservice to ignore things like that.

I remember Cartoon Network had a special on propoganda cartoons a few years back.

[Bustertheclown]

If you buy the $1 cartoon DVDs in Wal-Mart, you'll end up seeing a lot of WWII propoganda cartoons.

Personally, I'm glad for that. I own a shitload of those dvds, and I think they're great. Nothing pisses me off more than whitewashing over objectionable material from the past, as if it had never existed. It's that sort of bleeding-heart denial that eventually leads to the same ignorance that spawned the offensive material in the first place. The ugly stuff deserves just as much space in history as the pretty stuff. We need to face our failures while we celebrate our victories.

That's why I like seeing this stuff too. It's a diservice to ignore things like that.

I remember Cartoon Network had a special on propoganda cartoons a few years back.

I remember that, too. It was Toon Heads, wasn't it? I love Toon Heads. I hope it's still on when I get CN access back.

[Berg]

And suddenly TV is flooded with shows with "all black" casts. You get token white guys instead of token black guys.

Stereotypical "un-cool" white guys at that. To be fair, though, most of those shows don't really have any non-black characters at all.

[Rabbitz_]

So, I've never gave any thought to the race in my comics, but I've grown in a very all-white enviroment (my main ancestors are jewish, anlgos, meditarrenean and arabs, with some gypsies thrown in for the colour of it all) so all of the characters came up like that. However, while I was living and doodling in London, lots of characters of different ethnicities came up in my drawings... I guess it's all in what's around you...

[Rocknjosie]

I don't think it's right to compare the racism this grandfather showed with Nazi Germany during WWII. While both are obvious cases of racism, it is not on the same level. nor do I think it's fair to suggest that if he is a racist like that in the 1970's, that he must have been much worse in the 1950's in the South.

While there are a LOT of people with racist attitudes, those attitudes often extend no further than a subconcious response. When faced with their racism, these people tend to be embarassed by it.

I never lived in the Jim Crow south, but from what I know I'd have to disagree. From the average of two lynchings a week, to the postcards in general stores featuring pictures of lynchings, to the schools closed so that kids could go watch a lynching, to no job opportunity, to schools only being desegregated post 1950...and the list goes on. Obviously I broke a few laws of debating bringing in Nazi Germany, but I don't think it's unfair to compare Jim Crow south and before to Nazi Germany in the ghettos phase.

[Bustertheclown]

I never lived in the Jim Crow south, but from what I know I'd have to disagree. From the average of two lynchings a week, to the postcards in general stores featuring pictures of lynchings, to the schools closed so that kids could go watch a lynching, to no job opportunity, to schools only being desegregated post 1950...and the list goes on. Obviously I broke a few laws of debating bringing in Nazi Germany, but I don't think it's unfair to compare Jim Crow south and before to Nazi Germany in the ghettos phase.

Yeah, I didn't think it was too far of a stretch, either.

[Escushion]

I never lived in the Jim Crow south, but from what I know I'd have to disagree. From the average of two lynchings a week, to the postcards in general stores featuring pictures of lynchings, to the schools closed so that kids could go watch a lynching, to no job opportunity, to schools only being desegregated post 1950...and the list goes on. Obviously I broke a few laws of debating bringing in Nazi Germany, but I don't think it's unfair to compare Jim Crow south and before to Nazi Germany in the ghettos phase.

Yeah, I didn't think it was too far of a stretch, either.

Agreed.

(edited for clarity and offensiveness)

[McDuffies]

I don't think it's right to compare the racism this grandfather showed with Nazi Germany during WWII. While both are obvious cases of racism, it is not on the same level. nor do I think it's fair to suggest that if he is a racist like that in the 1970's, that he must have been much worse in the 1950's in the South.

While there are a LOT of people with racist attitudes, those attitudes often extend no further than a subconcious response. When faced with their racism, these people tend to be embarassed by it.

I never lived in the Jim Crow south, but from what I know I'd have to disagree. From the average of two lynchings a week, to the postcards in general stores featuring pictures of lynchings, to the schools closed so that kids could go watch a lynching, to no job opportunity, to schools only being desegregated post 1950...and the list goes on. Obviously I broke a few laws of debating bringing in Nazi Germany, but I don't think it's unfair to compare Jim Crow south and before to Nazi Germany in the ghettos phase.

Well, it is only unfair to judge a person based on only one thing you've heard about him, and I think that's what Rkolter was trying to say.
To try to give a parallel example, I know a lot of people here who dislike gays, but I can guarantee you that they are, in fact, very good people. None of them would ever hurt a gay, throw a stone at them or anything based on their personal dislike. Sure, they were raised not to like people of alternative sexual orientation, but that doesn't mean that they are deprived of compassion, sence of equality or any other human characteristics.
And then, there is a nice saying: "Dog that barks doesn't bite".

But then again, I don't think that your post was as much a stretch as it had virtually nothing to do with what I was saying. We talk about whether it's reasonable or fair to ask a very old man to change his complete views of life in his last days of life, and you bring in great historical human injustices, fear of death and whether someone could be forgiven or not (but we were not even mentionong any forgiveness because we weren't talking about any crimes in the first place). You seem to have brought the topic only because it's something that currently interests you, not because it was related to the topic of discussion. I just decided to keep shut up hoping that this pointless discussion won't go further, but it did. Blah.

Tolerance of cultures goes both ways, remember.

Let the Nazis have their views and you have yours.

*cough*

You know what, I don't like what you're doing.
Maybe you haven't realised, but you're pointing fingers and shouting "RACIST!" just now. That's something you should never do in a discussion like this.