Beating your meat, fish, and veggies - Explained

Squidflakes · Post by **Squidflakes** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 8:22 am

Since I love the cooking, and Mel offered some tips on making juicy pork chops, I thought I'd make this thread.

Please feel free to share your favorite recipies, techniques, success or failure stories.

Mel Wong · Post by **Mel Wong** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 9:31 am

Okay. There are several factors that lead to tender pork chops.

Firstly is adequate tenderising. Second, you need enough fat to keep the meat moist while you're cooking it, and thirdly, you need to cook it quickly over high heat, or slowly over low, moist heat, or it dries out.

These steps have never failed, for myself.

My standard technique is to buy thin-cut boneless (or you can trim them yourself) pork chops and lay into them with a meat tenderising mallet. They can be found in Wal-Marts and Targets and other grocery stores - they're gavel-size mallets with a pointy, stud-covered end, and a flat one.

Lay your raw pork chop over a chopping board with some newspaper under it to absorb the thud, and hammer at it with the studded end of the mallet. When it's flattened and dented, hit it with the flat side.

Do the same with the reverse. They should be all right when they're wafer-thin.

Marinate them as you see fit - I normally like to rub chili powder, sage, and crushed black pepper into them on both sides, then mix up a marinade with soy sauce (Kikkoman will do), a little oyster sauce (a teaspoon per two pork chops) and crushed garlic (a teaspoon per two pork chops) and soak them in it.

When it comes to cooking, I like using cast iron skillets. I haven't brought any of my cookware from Singapore so right now I'm using normal nonstick pans, but they do as well. You turn the heat to High, and coat the pan with a mixture of half vegetable oil, half butter. Melt the butter in the warm oil and swirl it around. When the oil hits boiling, you take the pork chops out, pat them dry on a kitchen towel, and then drop them onto the pan. Save the marinade.

They will sizzle fiercely and there may be some spatter. What you want to do is flip them once the fat-side starts shrinking, as the meat will buckle and look unsightly then.

Flip both sides so the meat fibers on each side cook evenly. It shouldn't take more than five minutes for wafer-thin pork chops to cook. You don't want pork rare, you could catch parasites with it. Set them aside for serving (they go well with rice and green beans on the side).

Next, make a roux. A roux is essentially half and half fat and flour cooked to make a sauce thickener. I use saved bacon fat for my roux, half and half with butter, but you can use peanut oil or whatever. Pick a fat with a high smoking point - olive oil burns too easily. When you make a roux the secret is to keep stirring. Failing to stir hard and fast enough will lead to you scorching it - which will be obvious as it smells burnt.

Stir your fat/flour mixture in a pan over medium-high heat until it's peanut butter brown, then mix the marinade with as much water, and pour it into the roux. Keep stirring, and eventually you will have a thickened gravy in your pan. Spoon it over the pork chops.

That's about it.

- Mel

Mel Wong · Post by **Mel Wong** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 9:34 am

Oh, I also offer basic cooking advice for people who aren't at my level yet. Or other recipe suggestions, if needed.

I'm a foodie, I might as well post like one.

- Mel

Error of Logic · Post by **Error of Logic** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 9:41 am

I have a recipe for nice, tender chicken filets.

Basically, you start by freezing your fillet of chicken solid; this may take a while.
Next, you melt some margarine in a frying pan. Once the margarine is ready (hissing, boiling a bit) you add the frozen fillets. Add spices to the margarine as needed and defrost and fry the chicken, taking care not to let the margarine evaporate.

Mel Wong · Post by **Mel Wong** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 9:43 am

Error of Logic wrote:I have a recipe for nice, tender chicken filets.

Basically, you start by freezing your fillet of chicken solid; this may take a while.
Next, you melt some margarine in a frying pan. Once the margarine is ready (hissing, boiling a bit) you add the frozen fillets. Add spices to the margarine as needed and defrost and fry the chicken, taking care not to let the margarine evaporate.

I don't use margerine as it does not taste right in any way.

- Mel

Error of Logic · Post by **Error of Logic** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:05 am

Mel Wong wrote:
Error of Logic wrote:I have a recipe for nice, tender chicken filets.

Basically, you start by freezing your fillet of chicken solid; this may take a while.
Next, you melt some margarine in a frying pan. Once the margarine is ready (hissing, boiling a bit) you add the frozen fillets. Add spices to the margarine as needed and defrost and fry the chicken, taking care not to let the margarine evaporate.
I don't use margerine as it does not taste right in any way.

- Mel

Well, that's a matter of taste, of course. It's also where flavoring becomes important. When doing the 'extra-tender chicken recipe', I used to like to add some maggi (tm) and powder the chicken lightly with powdered curry. If your tastes don't run to curry, you can use anything else you like.
Personally, I appreciate margarine because it's less greasy, melts quickly and easily and doesn't have an overpowering flavor of its own, leaving you more free to concoct a taste.

Indigo Violent · Post by **Indigo Violent** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:23 pm

Vegetarian moussaka. It's my big signature dish, something I like to make when I've got friends coming over. This is a pretty basic form of it, you can alter it more or less as you like.

Slice up a couple of potatoes and an eggplant and arrange them on a lightly oiled baking pan, then sprinkle with salt and pepper. Roast the vegetables in the oven at 350F until the potato slices are soft.
Take about five hundred grams of white button mushrooms, a medium-sized onion and couple of cloves of garlic, slice them all up, and cook them in a large frying pan with olive oil until everything's soft and smells really good. Then add a big can of chopped tomatoes, and oregano, basil, rosemary, and pepper to taste. Let it simmer for about fifteen minutes.
When it's done simmering, pour a third of the mixture into a ceramic casserole, then layer the potatoes over it. Pour another third of the mixture on, then layer the eggplant over that. Add the last third, then cover the top with a thick layer of b

Honor · Post by **Honor** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:43 pm

Mel Wong wrote:I don't use margerine as it does not taste right in any way.

- Mel

Hah! One of my favorite foodie arguments! *wicked grin* (after the dried -vs- fresh herbs argument.)

Margerine works and tastes just fine, so long as you use it as what it is... Flavored vegeteble oil - and don't try to use it as butter.

(ok... so it wasn't really an argument...)

Error of Logic · Post by **Error of Logic** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:57 pm

Honor wrote:
Mel Wong wrote:I don't use margerine as it does not taste right in any way.

- Mel
Hah! One of my favorite foodie arguments! *wicked grin* (after the dried -vs- fresh herbs argument.)

Margerine works and tastes just fine, so long as you use it as what it is... Flavored vegeteble oil - and don't try to use it as butter.

(ok... so it wasn't really an argument...)

I'll give you an argument; margarine works fine as butter. Try spreading a little on warm cake or on a croissant ... Hmm-hmm good! ^_^ And the great thing is, it's more pliable than butter and not as thick and greasy.

Tellner · Post by **Tellner** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 1:19 pm

When I'm trying something new out I go by recipes. When I'm not I go by what ingredients are at hand and choose a basic technique, usually stir-fry or braising. I apologize for not being more exact about measures. When I'm cooking by the seat of the pants I don't record how much of anything.

Mel, your recipe sounds excellent. It's a pity that my wife and I don't eat pork for religious reasons. Otherwise we'd try it. (Oh Lord, why couldn't You have forbidden brussel sprouts and okra?)

Here are couple easy dishes I have had some luck with....

Mustard Roast Beef
To each cup of dijon mustard add a glug of wine, half a tablespoon of grated horseradish, a few peppercorns and half a handful of capers or a few juniper berries. Mix into a paste adding mustard powder, corn meal or more liquid as indicated.

Score the roast cross-hatched so the sauce will adhere and penetrate better. Roast can be rolled or flattened. Rolled lets you use a thermometer. Flattened allows better coverage for larger pieces.

Completely cover the meat with the sauce/paste. Bake at 375.

Chicken or Lamb with Fenugreek
Get fresh or fresh frozen fenugreek by the bag. It's a green in this dish, not a seasoning.

Per pound of meat chop three or four shallots finely. Cook until transparent in oil. Brown lamb or boned chicken in the same pan with pepper and a teaspoon or so of allspice. Add half a cup of chopped mushrooms. Real mushrooms if possible, not the white styrofoam agaricus ones.

If you browned the meat in a skillet transfer everything to a pot.

Add two cups of fenugreek/pound of meat. Cover with water. Correct seasonings. Bring to a boil. Reduce heat and simmer until dish is the consistency you want.

Chicken with Preserved Lemons and Barberry Rice
Cook rice in a pot on the stove, not in a rice cooker with a handful or so of barberries per pound of meat. Add a tablespoon or two of butter to the rice as it steams. Cook the rice about half as long as you normally do. It should have absorbed most but not all of the liquid.

Get dried or pickled lemons from a Middle Eastern food store.

For each pound of chopped or at least boned chicken saute a medium onion in oil until golden. Brown chicken with sweet spices (your choice, cinnamon, nutmeg, cloves, allspice, mace, etc.). Add preserved lemons, half a cup of honey and a cup or so of water. Simmer.

Layer the rice and chicken mixture. Add a little more water. Cook on stove for about half an hour.

Lamb with Apricots
Trim the fat from the lamb. Get rid of the gristly bits. Cut the lamb into small cubes.

For each pound of lamb finely chop or puree about 3/4 of a cup of apricots and 1/4 cup finely ground almonds or 1/2 cup almond milk.

If there's enough fat left, use it to brown onions and the meat. Otherwise use regular oil. Add cinnamon, pepper and thyme (!!), a little heavy on the cinnamon. Brown the meat. Add the apricots and almonds along with water. Heat to boiling. Simmer and reduce until you have a thick sauce. Serve over couscous or rice.

My Mother's Chopped Liver
Take 2 lbs. chicken liver. Salt and broil quickly on both sides. Run it through a medium meat grinder with two hard boiled eggs, a raw onion and six tablespoons of schmaltz or or four of cooking oil. Ambrosia of the gods.

Tellner · Post by **Tellner** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 1:20 pm

I've had much better luck with butter in baking. In other cooking it doesn't make much of a difference.

RavenxDrake · Post by **RavenxDrake** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:12 pm

Both butter and shortening have thier places (Margerine, as a hybridized vegtable oil product, has no place at my table. Besides, they produce it by converting normally fairly healthy unsaturated oils into saturated fats... thats why it's solid at room temp. Butter has more calories and technically more cholesterol, but also provides vitamins, minerals, calcium AND has a larger concentration of HDL cholesterol(or "The Good Kind". )

Butter and Shortening have vastly different properties, making them better at some things than others. Butter is largely for flavouring. It browns well and adds a very distinctive palette to sautees and sweats, and with most modern non-stick skillets(or a properly maintained cast iron one. <3 Cast iron) you don't even need oils to cook really. Shortening is best for pan frying (high smokepoint, ease of preperation and cleanup, has NO flavour of it's own so it allows the foods flavour to really come through). Shortening is not as good for deepfrying... I usually use either Canola oil or Peanut oil... but that's neither here nor there. Shortening is better in breads, rolls, and biscuits. It makes for a hardier structure, and firmer texture. Butter is better in light baking and quick breads like cakes, pancakes and most cookies.

Clarified Butter(Ghee) is damn near the perfect food. It's as easy to use as oil, high smoke point, great flavour, doubles as a dip and food topping... hell you could probably wax the floors with it if you don't mind doing the Risky Business Floor Slide every time you want something form a far cabinet.

On pork: The chances of getting any "parasite" from modern american pork, even cooked over lower heat, is minimal... they no longer scrounge from trash and garbage... they're fed a carefully maintained and regulated diet, and the whole herd gets regular health and safety screenings. The Pork Parasite Paranoia got started in the US when trichinosis, and it's causitive parasite trichinella spiralis, were being studied and examined.., At the time, it was prevelent in the pork supply and difficult to treat if they made it into a human host.

The truth is, this parasite has almost been eradicated from the modern USDA graded american pork supply... you'd suffer a better chance of getting it from a rare venison steak or other wild game than eating a raw pork cutlet.

If you're honestly worried about it, though, and still want to try porkchops that aren't dry and lifeless from being chared to 170 degrees internal... go to the other extreem. Freeze pork for 20-25 days before cooking. This will destory any possible trichinella cysts, and won't signifigantly damage the quality of the meat.

Sorry... this is a personal cooking peeve of mine. I can't stand dry pork, and it's always dry cause peope try to either cook it like chicken or beef, and it's very much neither. Modern pork has evovled from selective breeding practices to produce a meat that's leaner, cleaner, and healthier... and, as a result, has so little fat and connective tissue, it drys up faster than than a corperate accountant on the witness stand at a class action lawsuit.

Personally, If I can't pound it out flat into a pailliard(beat down fried cutlet, similar to Mel's), I prefer to Brine it. Thanks to the joys of osmosis, it allows seasoning and flavours to penetrate the meat deeply, and breaks down the muscle fibers and tissues, meaning a less demanding cooking environment... all you have to do is get the meat done.

For most porkchops(serving size of 4), I use a brine of Apple Cider Vinagar(2 cups), Brown Sugar(1 cup), Salt(obviously, 1cup), and typically cracked pepper corns and mustard powder. Occasionally I'll add some freash shaved ginger for heat, or alternately tarragon or other herbs(of course, you can substitute Herbed Vinagar for the Apple Cider vinagar for the same effect). Heat the vinagar, mix in the dry stuff till it's fully disolved, then throw in about a pound of ice(yes, a pound of ice... that's less than a normal sized icetray worth... and this isn't that exact... but to little will make the chops too strong, to much will make them weak... but better weaker flavour than too strong to eat, so err on the side of more ice). Toss the ice around till it melts, then brine the chops for about 30-45 minutes per inch of thickness (most times you won't get them thicker than 2 inches unless you ask for a custom cut from your butcher).

Just rinse em off before you cook with em. Personally, I like grilling them(Propane is your friend if time is on the line, but Whole Chunk Charcoal is Pure love distilled form trees with fire). Generally 3-5 minutes per side is enough(if you wanna, rotate, not FLIP, rotate the chops 90degrees about halfway through on both sides for the crisscrossing grill marks for a more visually appealing plate)

Check the internal temp with a thermomator as you cook. You should be shooting for an internal temperature of 150-155 degrees for medium, or 160-65 for well done(the last few degrees of temperature will be reached by caryover heat... it will finish cooking as it rests reaching the proper final thermal destination of 160 medium, or 170 well.)

Let it stand, covered in foil, for about 5 minutes before serving to allow the meat time to relax and the juices to set.

Mel Wong · Post by **Mel Wong** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:27 pm

RavenxDrake wrote: Personally, If I can't pound it out flat into a pailliard(beat down fried cutlet, similar to Mel's), I prefer to Brine it. Thanks to the joys of osmosis, it allows seasoning and flavours to penetrate the meat deeply, and breaks down the muscle fibers and tissues, meaning a less demanding cooking environment... all you have to do is get the meat done.

This is also the reason why I use soy sauce in my marinades. Like, NEAT soy sauce. It does work as a brining agent.

- Mel

Tellner · Post by **Tellner** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:31 pm

Raven, I just went out and bought margarine for the first time in years. Sauteed some mushrooms in it and in butter. You're right about the flavor and heating properties. Damn. It really has been a while.

I'm not so sure about the safety of raw meat. Twenty five years ago you would probably have been right. Since the beginning of the Reagan Administration the USDA inspection and enforcement system has been cut past the bone and into the marrow. Liberalized trade has brought in more meat of uncertain quality from abroad. When I was on the County Extension's food preservation program we were told that the latest research should that salmonella, listeria, E. coli and several other pathogens were on the rise in the domestic meat supply. If the animal was "finished" on a feedlot or typical commercial hog farm worse.

Caduceus · Post by **Caduceus** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:34 pm

Shortening is also partially hydrogenated oils; very similar to margarine. The only ingredient of Crisco is "Partially Hydrogenated Soybean Oil". They, of course, both have their places. Shortening has a leg up in certain kinds of baking because it is water-free. A combo of half lard and half shortening makes the best tortillas. What you cannot cook with is anything labeled "spread." That shit is full of water and air and just doesn't work.

There is, however, a fat for every purpose. The only fat I won't touch is, as I stated before, spread.

If you would like to be able to spread butter I reccommend this product:

http://www.butterbell.com/

A few of my favorite fats:

Lard kicks ass in pie crust, biscuits and tortillas. Good starter for cooking meat in any Mexican dish, as well.

Butter has a fair amount more flavor than lard so I recommend using some butter and some lard in your biscuits or pie crust. Lard gets you that perfect texture, though. Butter is kick ass on bread.

Shortening I don't use much as trans-fatty acids make me feel sicky but it is a dream for baking. Still, with proper liquid control you can get good results with lard or butter.

Margarine makes a good cookie but, again, it makes me feel kind of sick so I don't use it. Not bad stuff, just not for me.

For high-temp cooking like frying I recommend a high flash point oil like peanut or canola. Peanut has virtually no flavor so it is preferable but canola is less likely to kill people with an allergy.

Olive oil is great for adding a ton of flavor and texture to foods but try to avoid cooking it at very high temps; it will break down or burn. It is beautiful stuff, though.

Sesame oil is a dream, but it's definitely used more like a spice than an oil. When stir-frying, throw just a little bit in after you have heated up a high flash point oil.

Mel Wong · Post by **Mel Wong** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:40 pm

Stephen Henderson-Grady wrote:Shortening is also partially hydrogenated oils; very similar to margarine. The only ingredient of Crisco is "Partially Hydrogenated Soybean Oil". They, of course, both have their places. Shortening has a leg up in certain kinds of baking because it is water-free. A combo of half lard and half shortening makes the best tortillas. What you cannot cook with is anything labeled "spread." That shit is full of water and air and just doesn't work.

There is, however, a fat for every purpose. The only fat I won't touch is, as I stated before, spread.

If you would like to be able to spread butter I reccommend this product:

http://www.butterbell.com/

A few of my favorite fats:

Lard kicks ass in pie crust, biscuits and tortillas. Good starter for cooking meat in any Mexican dish, as well.

Butter has a fair amount more flavor than lard so I recommend using some butter and some lard in your biscuits or pie crust. Lard gets you that perfect texture, though. Butter is kick ass on bread.

Shortening I don't use much as trans-fatty acids make me feel sicky but it is a dream for baking. Still, with proper liquid control you can get good results with lard or butter.

Margarine makes a good cookie but, again, it makes me feel kind of sick so I don't use it. Not bad stuff, just not for me.

For high-temp cooking like frying I recommend a high flash point oil like peanut or canola. Peanut has virtually no flavor so it is preferable but canola is less likely to kill people with an allergy.

Olive oil is great for adding a ton of flavor and texture to foods but try to avoid cooking it at very high temps; it will break down or burn. It is beautiful stuff, though.

Sesame oil is a dream, but it's definitely used more like a spice than an oil. When stir-frying, throw just a little bit in after you have heated up a high flash point oil.

I'd never expected to see you here.

- Mel

Starwind · Post by **Starwind** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:47 pm

I seriously need to get my hubby to post some of his techniques and recipies on here. He is a wonderful cook who can make some really good food.

I do the baking and desserts but for everything else he is awsome.

Squidflakes · Post by **Squidflakes** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 7:30 pm

Lard does make for some tastey tortillas and breads, but I hate that coating that develops on the roof of your mouth. Its like having a huge hunk of peanut butter stuck up there.

GG Crono · Post by **GG Crono** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 9:58 pm

If you have a crockpot, try this:

1 pkg chocolate cake mix

1 pint sour cream

1 pkg instant chocolate pudding

1 small bag chocolate chips (approx. 6 oz)

3/4 cup oil

4 eggs

1 cup water

Spray crockpot with non-stick spray. Mix all ingredients until smooth, pour into crockpot. Cook on low 6-8 hours. Serve with ice cream.

The end result is some sort of cake. Very tasty.

RavenxDrake · Post by **RavenxDrake** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 11:58 pm

Mmm... crock pot cake...

The crockpot(or Slow Cooker) is one of the greatest culinary cooking tools short of the Preasure Cooker.

As for "Spreadable Butter"... What's wrong with whipping your own? Get out your stand mixer(or a hand beater, but that'll take much longer) and cut some room temperature butter into 2 tblsp blocks, drop em in the blender and start on low with the whip attachment. Be careful not to let it get too warm, you don't want to melt it, just whip it. Up it to medium and whip till it's soft and lighter in colour. Then add some extra virgin olive oil(3 or 4 tablesppoons per pound of butter) and whip it all till the oil is incorperated. Even chilled this will spread with a much greater degree of ease than normal butter. If you wan to jazz it up, run the oil and some fresh herbs through the food processor first, then incorperate it into the butter. Or, for something a little sweeter, use two tablespoons of honey and 1/4 teaspoon of vanilla extract before you whip.