Comic Genesis Forums

Well gang, that little Manifesto thread on the Escape! Forum caught the attention of Chris Crosby and when I heard about him being there I just had to show up and voice some of my opinions on the problems that exist between Keenspot and Keenspace.

Mostly how it feels that Keenspot is an elite ivory tower closed society and Keenspace is an unrespected, webcomic ghetto. It has always felt that unless you were part of some sort of in-crowd that knew the secret handshake there was absolutely no way to get promoted into Keenspot where you not only get the respect of Keen Industries but you get to be hosted on a server that isn't choking to death on its own crap.

It seems the squeeky wheel gets the grease.

Chris stated the only reason nobody has been promoted from Keenspace to Keenspot in god knows how long (I think it's been two years since we last saw a promotion) is because nobody at Keen really reads Keenspace comics and promoting comics to Keenspot hasn't been a priority. However, after I pointed out that there are a great many comics on Keenspace with not only total readerships greater than some of the Keenspot comics, but also daily readerships greater than some of the Keenspot comics Chris has said he will personally read every Keenspace comic that has a readership equal or greater than the readership of the lowest active Keenspot comic and that there will be some promotions from Keenspace to Keenspot in February.

Saddly the webcomic most deserving of promotion to Keenspot, that being Sexy Losers will likely not see promotion. It seems Coca-Cola was offended by the use of the word "Pimp" in a Keenspot comic (gee, I wonder which comic that was *cough*Sinfest*cough*) and as a result Keenspot is going to be making an effort to be more "advertiser friendly". Even though the total readership of Sexylosers is greater than that of any of the Keenspot comics. Even though the daily readership is greater than most Keenspot comics. Even though the marketability of Sexy Losers is high and Keen Industries would be able to make a nice penny from a Sexy Losers line of Keen Swag. (Who wouldn't want a Sexy Losers graphic novel?), Keen has decided Sexy Losers isn't "Spot Worthy" because it is "pornography" (his words not mine). Infact the example given was that Look What I Brought Home is more Spot Worthy than Sexy Losers.

But then again, he said nothing is written in stone and Sexy Losers might possibly be reconsidered for promotion to Keenspot. Perhaps a few keen readers sending an E-mail to Chris Crosby requesting Sexy Losers to be spotted might help convince him just how marketable the comic is.

Also Chris did ask for people to send him recommendations for promotion. Saddly it seems that Keenspot is still giving higher points to comics that publish 3 or more times per week. The idea is that the quantity of the comics published is more important that the quality, even if a quality comic with fewer published strips gets more daily readers than a crappier comic that publishes three times a week. Still once again we were told there are exceptions made. Saddly, it seems that the focus is also going to be on content that won't offend advertisers so adult humour strips are not likely to be promoted. Hopefully again exceptions might be made for webcomics that arn't "Coca-Cola Friendly" if the comic seems marketable enough for the Keenswag devision and the fanbase is large enough.

In anycase, e-mail Chris at superosity@keenspot.com with your support for the promotion of Sexy Losers to Keenspot as well as any other Keenspace comics you feel should be considered for promotion (*cough*Tang's Comics*cough*).

It would really make my day to see Hard's comic promoted to Keenspot. Firstly because he truly deserves it but also it would be so nice if his comic was on a reliable server again instead of this heap of bloated dung we call Keenspace. It would also be nice for Hard to have access the the marketing opportunities of Keenswag. Yeah yeah, T-shirts and Mugs can be made at Cafe Press, that's no biggie, but Keenswag also offers Hardcover and softcover comic publication for Keenspot comics and are planning to branch into a line of toys for Keenspot comics. Who wouldn't want a Chie plushie (let's just hope it's washable). Plus, if my prodding and poking does get Hard promoted to Keenspot I will feel that I have done something to pay Hard back for all he has done for me since it doesn't seem like I'll be getting to Japan anytime soon to buy him that beer I owe him. And, of course, there are self serving reasons why I would want to see Hard get promoted to Keenspot. Hard's comic would be the comic that would open the doors for all the other adult comics on Keenspace to be possibly promoted to Keenspot. Without Hard ever being promoted to Keenspot my own comic stands absolutely no chance of ever being promoted to Keenspot in the future and I've got to tell you, after weeks like this one I would really like to be on Keenspot's more reliable server and the thought of being able to publish Ghastly's Ghastly Graphic Novel through Keenswag does hold a certain appeal.

Hear hear!

It is all out sad how many good comics there are on space compare to all the crap comics at spot!

Thanks for telling us this!

*UWC places a hand over his heart*

I pledge Allegiance to the cause...

What? I have a comic at keenspace? I haven't been able to access the server for so long, I almost forgot I had one :P

Seriously, thanks for the words of support. I never had hope for KeenSpot because of the three-comics-a-week rule, and I just don't have the time to put out three comics a week without having the third comic end up being stick figures.

It's weird that Chris Crosby would call my strip pornography when Exploitation Now has underage nudity in it. (No offence to Poe)

Do you have a link for this conversation?

hard wrote: It's weird that Chris Crosby would call my strip pornography when Exploitation Now has underage nudity in it. (No offence to Poe)

Well it would seem that the reason your strip is pornography is because you have talent. If your drawing skills were like "Look What I Brought Home" your strip would appearently no longer be pornography. As for Exploitation Now, the reason it is deemed advertiser friendly and Sexy Losers is not is that you have a higher nipple incidence ratio than Exploitation Now so it's more likely that an advertiser would be offended by a random link to your strip than to Poe's.

I still can't understand the insistance on the 3+/week publishing schedule. If you've got the daily readers and you publish a quality strip once a week, to me that's much better than if you publish a crappy strip 7 days a week and still only manage to get as many readers as the good strip that publishes once a week.

Besides, if Keenspot is planning on generating revinue by marketing merchandise based on Keenspot comics, a comic that publishes once a week, but has the same number of readers as a comic that publishes seven days a week has a larger market to exploit.

Total market audience of a comic would be the number of readers in a week divided by the number of days that week the comic is published. Two comics with a weekly readership number of 70,000 and a daily readership number of 10,000 may seem the same at first. But if one is publishing 7 days a week and the other only once then the comic that only publishes once a week has the larger market audience. The comic that publishes 7 days a week only has 10,000 readers in reality. They just check the comic every day it publishes. The other comic has 70,000 readers.

I think the reason Keenspot wants the 3+/week publishing schedule is ego. It lets them pretend like they're an actual newspaper syndicate. They need to look at the bigger picture.

Thank you Ghastly for pointing me in the direction of Sexy Losers.


that comic rocks!

I read the entire thread. It looks unlikely I'll ever be considered for Spotsmanship, but I wonder if it's that big a deal in the first place. The only real positive thing is the server... the rest of the "exploitation" stuff I could really do without. Personally, I'd like to be the one who gets to exploit my work *wink*

The other part is that KeenSpot is some kind of recognition, I guess. The problem is, it's more than being just a good comic, I think it has a lot to do with a person as a web personality as well. I think my views against comic awards have pretty much labelled me as a troublemaker, and looking at it from Chris' side, I can see why he doesn't want a troublemaker on board. I guess if I had money invested in a business, I wouldn't want to risk it on some guy shooting off his mouth all the time.

It doesn't explain "8" but there you go.

All I can say is we might as well get used to this side of the wall, we're going to be here for a while.

coca cola was offended by the word pimp, yet they employ underage workers in third world countries and advertise on Al Jazera (sp?)...

I hope everyone interested in this read my comments on the other thread, because I think Ghastly misrepresented some of my views in his summary on this board. I won't respond to every one, but here's some...

1.) We Keenspotters DO read Keenspace comics, as much as we read non-Keenspace comics, at least. Keenspace has turned out some great stuff. It took me FOREVER to convince the 3 other Keen execs to agree that BOXJAM'S DOODLE was awesome, but it happened.

2.) I didn't call SEXY LOSERS pornography. I said SOME PEOPLE might consider it pornography (some people consider EVERYTHING pornography). I would NOT, personally.

3.) Coca-Cola's reluctance to advertise on a site with mature content was only used as an example of something that was part of our discussion about whether or not to invite SEXY LOSERS. We have NOT decided to "focus on content that won't offend advertisers." One of my favorite comics is LWIBH!, and there's no use in trying to be a less offensive webcomic network if it and strips similarly offensive (EN, SSDD, PURPLE PUSSY, YOU DAMN KID, WENDY, heck, even ELF LIFE sometimes) stay onboard. And there's no way we're kicking any of those strips off Keenspot. So stop saying that we're turning into the Keen Kids Network or something.

And it's unlikely Coca-Cola will ever advertise on us under ANY circumstances, so screw them.

Ghastly wrote:(I think it's been two years since we last saw a promotion) is because nobody at Keen really reads Keenspace comics and promoting comics to Keenspot hasn't been a priority.

Oh, and it's been LESS than ONE year. BOXJAM'S DOODLE, FANS!, and SPOONER all joined on February 11, 2002.

(Note that two out of three there were Keenspace strips.)

Well I'm glad you cleared up the advertiser bit. It really seemed to me like you were saying that Keen intends to move towards more advertiser friendly content. This made me very sad because I seemed to remember reading once in a manifesto of your own that one of the reasons you started Keenspot was because you were sick of print comic syndicates that refuse quality comics because they might offend advertisers. So I'm very glad that's been cleared up. It was definetly a bold an innovative move to create Keenspot and not censor the content. Your post made me a little worried that like the Baby Boomers, Keenspot might be willing to sell out its high ideals in its old age for the sake of a buck. I am much relieved to hear that won't be the case.

In my opinion what makes Webcomics so great is that they don't have to restrict themselves to the same bland, non-offencive pap that litters the pages of print newspapers. Let the readers decide on an individual basis which comics they want to read and which ones they don't. That's the power of web publishing.

All i have to add to this is

As a personal thing, FAR prefer a comic that's good that publishes once a week. between work and other commitments, i dont have time for dailies the way i did when i was a student. That said, my current fave 5 are (no specific order) deathworld, ghastly's ghastly, kung fool, tang's weekly and sexy losers. Mostly because of humour, and if i skip days (weeks), it's not a problem catching up.


And for plushies, i'd like a kenta's horny mom plushie. urmm... and it better be washable.

Plug:

http://venusenvy.keenspace.com/

Great comic!
Update (mostly) daily

Chris Crosby wrote:
So stop saying that we're turning into the Keen Kids Network or something.

Nevertheless, it may be a good idea to have something like a Keen Kids Network, as a separate site.

Rincewind MoG wrote:http://escape.atp.cx/viewtopic.php?t=130

Waddamaroon.

reinder wrote:

Chris Crosby wrote:
So stop saying that we're turning into the Keen Kids Network or something.

Nevertheless, it may be a good idea to have something like a Keen Kids Network, as a separate site.

You know. It really isn't a bad idea. In fact, that's what I've been saying all along. Keen should try to maximize its advertising revinues by grouping comics together according to their target audiences. A seperate Keen division for kid's comics would make a lot of sense. If you were Fisher Price it would be much more attractive to advertise on Keenkids than it would on Keenspot.

Likewise if you're an adult entertainment publisher it would be much more attractive to advertise on Keensex than it would be on Keenkids.

We've been working on a kids-friendly site called KidKeen.com for awhile now. We're going to do lots of different themed sites. That's been the plan for years but we haven't had much time to devote to it.

Quite frankly I do not see how "Look What I Brought Home" is fit for Keenspace, but not Sexy Losers. Sexy Losers, FKA Thin H Line, is LEGENDARY. If LWIBH had started today on Keenspace I do not think it would stand a snowball's chance in hell of getting promoted to Keenspot. I think the only reason it got on was that it was there early on. I understand about Sexy Losers not being updated often, but that's about as strong a comparison as saying you can get 15 bags of pork rhinds for the cost of filet mignon, and therefore concluding that pork rhinds are better.

By the way... if any two comics deserve a ticket to Keenspot, they're RPG World and Stubble.

http://www.rpgworldcomic.com/
http://joshbabes.keenspace.com/ (this is where Stubble lives now)