A big problem (little pun)

[RavenxDrake]

deep-fried carrot wedges

Aaaaand, in the red corner, the contender for the title of Most Wrong Thing Ever...

I don't get it... what's so wrong about that?

[Honor]

First off, deep fried carrot wedges are wrong because carrots aren't food... they're what food eats. I also like to point out to these ignorant ass-hats who scream about "GM" crops that carrots are one of the first. Originally dark purple, they were modified to the current orange color in holland... It's been suggested this was done as a kind of patriotic tribute to the House of Orange... But nobody has solid proof.

Seriously, though, nothing against carrots. I just don't like the way they taste. I avoid, as a matter of habit, food that tastes nasty.

(it's always interested me that two creatures that are 99.999% chemically identical can perceive a flavor (which is physically entirely a chemical process) in two completely different ways. Obviously, a great deal of how we perceive the flavors of food, and how we rate those flavors as either desirable or undesirable is rooted in the sub-concious mind... fascinating.)
(these are the kinds of thoughts that brought my mother to say "you're not a Human... obviously, you're a little Vulcan child.")

When it is said that skinny people eat whatever they want, it is largely true, but they want different things also. Largely true, since there are of course many people who get to be skinny through intentional starvation, and that is an effective means of getting skinny [if all you want to do is weigh less], but those who choose this path pay for it in other ways. But another major component to consider, when skinny people say that they eat whatever they want, is what exactly do they want to eat. There are types of food that taste good, and some people binge on, that do not provide the types of energy that are required to live an active life style, or are debilitating in large quantities. Even an active and very physically fit person, if they sit there and eat an entire container of ice cream, are going to feel like they have a brick in their stomach when they are trying to perform at the level they would if they had not eaten it. It’ll make them feel slow, and they will tire quickly. This will change what they like, since they will eat what makes them feel good, and foods/drinks that allow them to perform well will satisfy that. This isn’t concerning legitimate food, in realistic quantities. Inactive people would thus want different things because they do not pay the immediate physical penalty for consuming things that put them at a physical disadvantage.

On a somewhat related note, there are certain kinds of attractive aspects that do require dietary regulation in combination with excercise. You won't get rock hard abs eating whatever you want, unless what you want is salad with a bit of chicken on top for protein.On a somewhat related note, there are certain kinds of attractive aspects that do require dietary regulation in combination with exercise. You won't get rock hard abs eating whatever you want, unless what you want is salad with a bit of chicken on top for protein.

I think it's fairly obvious my statement didn't concern freaks who intentionally starve themselves... The other point you bring up, about skinny people "wanting" different things... Is largely (mostly) valid, and, of course, partly (a little) invalid.

First, I should point out that I wasn't making my own statement, I was agreeing with the sentiment of, and using the words, as best I could remember them, of Covert Baily... When he said "skinny", in the context he used it, it meant (fairly obviously, I think) the absence of morbid obesity.

Personally, I wouldn't have used the word "skinny" because in most cases "skinny" carries a connotative meaning of excessive thinness, when what we're talking about here is "normal" people in any healthy weight range... And 'skinny' is not healthy, despite what starvation anagathacists suggest. (big surprise, huh? useage/meanings-nazi like myself being picky about meanings and useage...?)

Anyway... It's not like all "skinny" (not morbidly obese) people love only salad and lean chicken... For every skinny dietary freak who eats like a "clean living" ad, I bet I can show you five who thrive on pasta, burgers, tacos... Reasonable quantities of "whatever they want".

In very many cases, when it comes down to quantity and period eating problems, you have this situation where "normal" eaters listen to their bodies, and compulsive or over-eaters listen to their brains.

It's not like anyone's body wants an entire gallon of ice cream... To about the 85th percentile or so, the fat person doesn't eat more because they're fat, they're fat because they eat more... Sure, quantitative intake is increased a little to make up for the extra machinery, but mostly they're just subconciously looking for a good high.

The living organism communicates internally on a pretty simple level... If you do something that has been proven to be evolutionarily good, or "needed" or "desireable", you are given a simple drug reward, managed by parts of your brain so hard-wired and deeply embedded they makes the sub-concious seem like a glib and tittering school girl. (I just deleted about 250 words of "for example" written on the evolution of sexual behaviour... gawd, I'm good at getting off on a tangent.)

Anyway. When you're hungry... Honestly, really hungry... If you so much as think about food, pleasure centers in your brain spike and pleasure drugs rush your system in painfully small doses... If you actively engage in food-seeking behaviour, you get another little dose... And when you actually sit down and eat, it's almost orgasmic. Literally. Try it.

Later, if your feeling a bit down, or even just a bit bored... The sub-concious part of your brain remembers the orgasmic eating and thiks it can get it again by eating again... Cause and effect in the eyes of a child. Of course, if anyone asked the concious part of your brain, it'd say "no, that wont work... I'm not even hungry." but nobody does. The sub-concious starts screaming "eat!!" (because it doesn't know how to scream "hungry!"... only your hypothalamus knows how to say that.) and a certain percentage of people will mistake that call for a real one, and eat... They think they're hungry, but it's really their sub-concious looking for a drug fix.

Sadly, the hypothalamus doesn't speak to the sub-concious... Partly because it doesn't understand it, and partly because of an incident at a party during high school. In any case, the hypothalamus didn't order the food, so it sees no reason to "pay for it" with the drug reward...

This pisses the sub-concious off to no end, so it stamps it's tiny feet and screams "Dammit! It's not working... eat more!!!"

And you can easily enough see where that gets us.



On a somewhat related note, yes, if you want to do anything unnatural with your body - like developing rock-hard abs - it's very likely going to require some degree of unnaturalness in your diet. (and since the custom seems to be repeat this part of the conversation...) On a somewhat related note, yes, if you want to do anything unnatural with your body - like developing rock-hard abs - it's very likely going to require some degree of unnaturalness in your diet.

[Sweet or Sour]

Perhaps I should have been more clear, and perhaps skinny was a poor choice of a word, but I used skinny to mean not overweight, as a general statement, thus including those who are underweight [as was specified in the first section], and those who lived healthy life styles, though those two groups are obviously disjoint. In the case of skinny people through self starvation, they too would say they eat what they want [and have, at least to me, as I have known several of them and have asked them out of concern for them]. Ask them to elaborate, and they don’t say much though [responses, of course, may vary]. Afterward, the categories I specified were ‘inactive people’ and ‘physically active people’, since skinny is a poor descriptor of actual health, and that there are large active people, and ‘skinny’ [in the physical sense] stationary people. The point though, is that inactive people and physically active people choose their food preferences based on different criteria. Just trying to point out that for those who are on their way to attempting to get in better shape, that they will find that why they eat will change.

On the note of repeating a message, sorry if I missed it somewhere already stated in this thread.

[Queenhank]

Anyway. When you're hungry... Honestly, really hungry... If you so much as think about food, pleasure centers in your brain spike and pleasure drugs rush your system in painfully small doses... If you actively engage in food-seeking behaviour, you get another little dose... And when you actually sit down and eat, it's almost orgasmic. Literally. Try it.

I can definitely attest to this one. I hadn't eaten more than some scrambled eggs in two days, and I was STARVING. I see a cookie in a gas station, and have just enough change to buy it. Just the thought of doing so made me want to scream with joy. Then, when I actually ATE the thing, I instantly went from feeling like I was going to pass out to feeling like I was in heaven.

Moral of this story: Never leave your money at home.

[Honor]

Perhaps I should have been more clear, and perhaps skinny was a poor choice of a word, but I used skinny to mean not overweight, as a general statement, thus including those who are underweight [as was specified in the first section], and those who lived healthy life styles, though those two groups are obviously disjoint. In the case of skinny people through self starvation, they too would say they eat what they want [and have, at least to me, as I have known several of them and have asked them out of concern for them]. Ask them to elaborate, and they don’t say much though [responses, of course, may vary]. Afterward, the categories I specified were ‘inactive people’ and ‘physically active people’, since skinny is a poor descriptor of actual health, and that there are large active people, and ‘skinny’ [in the physical sense] stationary people. The point though, is that inactive people and physically active people choose their food preferences based on different criteria. Just trying to point out that for those who are on their way to attempting to get in better shape, that they will find that why they eat will change.

On the note of repeating a message, sorry if I missed it somewhere already stated in this thread.

No... I was just clarifying because I felt "skinny" was a poor word choice (for cause) by me. And the repeating bit... I was just gently teasing you because, if you check your last post, the words after "On a somewhat related note" are repeated, verbatim, twice.

[Sweet or Sour]

In an unrelated note, I’ve decided to develop the first ...

On a somewhat related note, there are certain kinds...

Close enough for government work, though I should really cut down on repeating myself. Here I thought you were talking about the abs comment, so went back through that thread with a fine toothed comb, because thought I'd just spewed back what somebody else had just stated.

On a not unrelated note, a relative of mine was just refused passage for a sold out plane, and forced to reschedule, because she consumed the entirely of two seats, yet paid for one ticket [happened 3 days ago], and they could not accommodate her. She didn't have to pay for an additional ticket, but it is likely because she complained constantly about every sort of whatever she could think up [not that I was there, just that it is what this particular relative does]. I detest posting about myself as a person, as opposed to a manifestation of opinion [because obviously there are far more interesting forum members' personal lives to read about, and why should someone slosh through the muck.], but this particular example was just too much a coincidence with the current topic at hand. Not that much a coincidence though, since this isn’t nearly the first time she’s had to sit to the side because of her size.

[Lund]

I don't know really.

I myself don't fit in most busseats or plane seats. And I'm rather slim but have my size problem in the height area instead. I have on some trips been more or less forced to pay extra to get a seat with enough leg space for me to be able to sit. Most of the time I make sure to book specefic seats in good time (first seat in a row, in the emerency exit corridor and such with more leg space).

From my point of view fat people have as much chose their weight as I have chose my height. Then again that doesn't really matter. My problems are my own even if I didn't chose to have them.



Feeling that my brain doesn't work this early and that my grip of the english language have gotten lost somewhere. Hopefully my not so interesting opinon on the matter is understandable.

[Chaszmyr Mae'Val]

It's a fair point, for a lot of people their physical form isn't chosen, it's how genetics (and in some cases upbringing*) have made us and we all do what we can with what we've got.



* I am 5 foot 1 and was frequently underweight because my idiot mother was - and still is - a born-again vegetarian who inflicted her diet on two barely out of the womb children. While I have no problems with vegetarianism or veganism as a lifestyle choice or religious stricture, I personally think it's very bad for kids under the age of 12. We are, after all, omnivores.

I spend way too much time talking about my health on this site; I'm going to have to draw some tentacle porn to compensate somehow.

[Aeridus]

I'm going to have to draw some tentacle porn to compensate somehow.

[Halo299]

did anyone watch Familyguy last night?

i thought it went along with this thread very well

-halo

[Honor]

I am 5 foot 1 and was frequently underweight because my idiot mother was - and still is - a born-again vegetarian who inflicted her diet on two barely out of the womb children.

That's child abuse, and should be legally treeated as such, IMHO... Negligent rather than aggrivated, to be sure... But still. Just as surely as if a mother was dumb enough to feed her child adult doses of medication or something.

While I have no problems with vegetarianism or veganism as a lifestyle choice or religious stricture, I personally think it's very bad for kids under the age of 12. We are, after all, omnivores.

It's one of those things like not believing in evolution... It's kind of a mark of either a stupid person, or an un-stupid person doing something stupid (which we all do from time to time) but yeah... I see it as wholly within their rights to inflict on themselves... But not children.

From my point of view fat people have as much chose their weight as I have chose my height. Then again that doesn't really matter. My problems are my own even if I didn't chose to have them.

Your point of view is in error. It's a very tiny percentage of the population that has no more choice in body weight than you do in body height.

But even if we vew these "problems" as belonging solely to the person who owns them, at least part of this discussion is about whether people at large are right to discriminate against those people for those problems.

[RavenxDrake]

Now, here's a question... is charging an overweight person MORE for a plane ticket discrimination?

Let me put to you a hypothetical. Say you have a man with a 64 inch waist(I don't know how they measure pant sizes in other countries, but that's about 163 centimeters... basically twice the "average" pantsize of 32 inches)).

Now then, That means the pants are going to be much larger than a standard size pair of jeans, consuming more material, more stitching, more rivets, etc. Is it descrimination to have to pay more for thos jeans than it is for a size 32 pair of jeans? No, it's a matter of course, you'd have to sell those jeans for more to recoup the losses.

Now, let's go back to the plane. The fat person weighs as much as two people, so he's automatically using up two persons worth of fuel to keep the plane aloft... ok, that one's just stupid, but it's there. What's more important is customer service. Not for the overweight, but for everyone:

Lets say that same 64 inch waist person takes a plane to New York from Chicago. Short flight, comparitively, but he's wedged into a 40 inch wide(if that) seat, crushed and compaining. He's spilling over into another seat, leaning on other passengers, and he's making them uncompfortable... that winds up leaving him and at least one other passenger dissatisfied, possibly costing the airline two future passengers.

Now then, if Mr. Largebritches is forced to buy a (forgive the pun) bulk-rate pair of seats, he's now got more room, can relax a bit, and itsn't disturbing other passengers. Sure, he's gonna be pissed about paying more, and will likely not fly tha airline again, but they preserved their other customers.

I'm not saying it isn't singling out a chunk of the population, but I am saying that at some point there are lines that have to be drawn. We don't like blind people drive. That's not discrimination, it's self preservation. (Yeah, I'm aware that's a pretty drastcic extreem of my point).

[Queenhank]

The problem with your example is that overweight people are in the majority in the US.

[Squidflakes]

The other problem with that argument is that coach seats on aircraft aren't designed with comfort in mind. Most airlines don't give a rats ass if you were comfortable or not. The seats are designed to get the maximum number of asses in the aircraft. Weight really is a secondary concern.

[Swordsman3003]

Yeah, but I'd rather pay more and have more room on the plane.

[Aeridus]

Well, when it comes to space travel, weight wil be a primary concern. Try explaining to a customer that his ticket is 1 million dollars more than anyone else because he/she weighs 400 pounds... that's a lot of fecking payload right there.

[Error of Logic]

"Warp speed, Mr. Sulu!"
"Captain -- we can't!"
DUN DUN DUUUN!
"Why. Not. Mr. Sulu?"
"Captain, the computer says we're flying above capacity."
"Logically speaking, captain, you should not have had that second helping of 'pound cake'."

[Aeridus]

Sigged!

[Error of Logic]

Sigged!

How nice. ^^

[RavenxDrake]

I always thought it was more like, especially in the later eps:

Kirk: "Beam me up, Scotty."
Scot: "I canae do it captain, you're too fat."
Kirk: "More power from the engines."
Scot: "Engines be damned, you're pulling the ship down... at least drop the ham."