Gay people should be rounded up and fixed...

[JaronK]

First of all, it's a common misconception that homosexuality means you don't want to breed. Plenty of homosexual couples want children... I'd say the percentage is nearly as high as that of heterosexual couples. They just have to use other methods of fertilization.

Second... bring a sign that says "Jesus loves you! In the butt!"

JaronK

[Tellner]

Okay, I just need to break this down...

1) They think gay is a result of bad parenting
2) They raised him having that mentality (as in, the parents had it)
3) Son turned out gay

Stop the insanity, plzkthnx

Makes perfect sense. It can't be inborn. It has to be sin. If you're trying to sell this brain poison to the parents convince them that it's their fault. You get parental love tied in with anger and guilt which means they'll fork over the BIG bucks for the program.

These are not well-meaning misguided people. These are evil predators who are happy to ruin children for money. Child abusers of the worst sort who are perfectly happy to destroy the relationship between parent and kids for power, prestige and the Almighty Dollar.

[Tellner]

I live near where that camp is, and I'm attending one of the protests that are being held there.

If you want, I'll bring a camera just to record whatever unfolds.

Give 'em one for me. If you are moved to carry a sign try this one:

Verily I say unto you, inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. (Matt. 25:35-40).

[Tellner]

Oh, and folks, if you have the time please go to this kid's blog and send him a supportive message. He's spent weeks alone and unsupported getting hit with the classic tools of psychological warfare, prisoner indoctrination and brainwashing by professionals. He's had his relationship with his parents torn to shreds. There's a good chance he's pre-suicidal. Just knowing there are people out there who support and care will mean the world to him.

[WhatMeWorry?]

You got me nervous with the thread subject. I thought "Oh isn't that just fucking great. Fundie trolls have found this forum and are going to stir up shit".

Bring 'em on. I think this board has MORE than enough people capable of handling any fundy invasion... lol would actually be pretty funny to watch. And who knows? Maybe they'd condemn your site as witchcraft, splatter your name all over the news and bring you popularity like you've never known... 8) silly fundies...

[TheGoobla]

You work in marketing, don't you?

Inciting protests is a good strategy for self promotion, and it's the sort of thing only the evil minds of marketing could invent.

[WhatMeWorry?]

There are people who claim that they have been that way since they were little kids, but what they fail to notice is that children really don't have a serious sexual orientation till they hit puberty.

Hmm.. I'd heard it was more or less fixed at about 2. Naturally I can't remember my source right now.

And let us not forget the evolutionary argument for the existence of homosexuality: More people to produce more resources, but fewer mating pairs to create more people to use more resources. It'd be interesting to see if there are higher rates of homosexuals born to mothers in crowded cities.

And if I weren't somewhat absolutely terrified of what such info could be used for by certain elements of society, I'd actually like to see such a study done.

Over the course of my life I've been heterosexual, homosexual and bisexual and never confused along the way. I also know plenty of people who switch sexual orientations *at least once* during the course of their lives. People try to make life more complicated so they can make it fit to their idea of the way it should be. shrug

[Toawa]

Over the course of my life I've been heterosexual, homosexual and bisexual and never confused along the way. I also know plenty of people who switch sexual orientations *at least once* during the course of their lives. People try to make life more complicated so they can make it fit to their idea of the way it should be. shrug

That is an interesting thing to ponder... Was there any transitional period between the switches?

(Please don't take offense; I ask for purely academic reasons. I don't mean to imply that the fact that you've changed before makes your current or previous state any less valid.

This may seem out of context here, but it fits into some of the research I've been doing lately; of course, mine is of a different aspect of the human mind. Precisely what aspect, I'd rather not say at this time. But for those who have been following me, this links into the previously mentioned DSM viewing. And I got the whiteboard up, too. )

[WhatMeWorry?]

That is an interesting thing to ponder... Was there any transitional period between the switches?

The biggest transtition was that from heterosexuality to homosexuality because it required that I go from a violent homophobe (my response to a homosexual advance was immediate physical violence) heterosexual to a homosexual. That took about 6 months in college, my first 6 months of college in fact...

Homosexual to bisexual was either a gradual transition so subtle I never noticed or it was a simple one moment of transference.

Other people that I have spoken to about such things seem to fall under a similar scenario where homophobia is what plays the greatest role in a slow transtition between sexual preferences.

My own theory: as oddball as it sounds to modern ears (and as convinced as I am it will be the sort of "well duh" knowledge a good century from now):...

Abridged and fast version of my theory:

Heterosexuality, Homosexuality, Bisexuality, Othersexuality, etc. - all a bunch of bullshit.

Truth - Sexuality. From there we pick what we won't do / don't want to do / not interested in. Some choices are conscious, some are not, and some we make for ourselves and some others make for us.

Much longer/detailed versions of my theory are available for discussion, just not right this moment. 8)

[Toawa]

Truth - Sexuality. From there we pick what we won't do / don't want to do / not interested in. Some choices are conscious, some are not, and some we make for ourselves and some others make for us.

That sounds like my simple, easy to use classification system that had several billion labels in it. A pity I never got around to developing it further.

[Moo Cow]

*twitches angrily* I hate, Hate, HATE the way of thinking that makes those camps and correction facilities and how people just go along with it as though it was all wonderful! It just pisses me off so much that they're allowed to do that. Fuck. But I don't really have much else to add to that.


Also, the semi-argument that's going on here has validity of course. There are different beliefs to why people have certain sexual orientations, and what will happen in the future. But please, try not to be accusatory or cruel to each other. Because I know we all are fairly accepting people, and fighting over mispercieved ideas or true beliefs won't get us anywhere. Of course we can dissagree. But we should not become angry with each other simply because we are on diffferent wavelengths./

~Sara

[Sweet or Sour]

Of course its not really possible, seeing as the opportunity is long since lost, but what would have been really interesting is to see if your chemical response systems changed durring these 'transitions'.. or if you always responded favorably to both, and were simply imposed on in a social way to favor one over the other, [which would explain the anger, at least in my experience, which tends to be more a reaction to the inner feelings and such conflicts, than a reaction to the situation itself.... such as not wanting to be attracted, thus getting angry.]

also would sort of explain the pendulum swing from [hetero -> homo]sexual, being a sort of self-imposed restriction [the though of ethre one or the other]

perhaps our brain chemistry allows us more sway than most of us would like to admit [though likely those in this forum are quite comfortable swaying wherever thier brain chemistry lets them.... seems like a comfortable group] from a fellow bisexual, i can tell you that i went through a similar thing, only never swung into the strictly homosexual, but looking back from an objective stance, i can see the attraction in my past, that was met just with rage....Though i also went through the 'one or the other' mindset

[WhatMeWorry?]

Of course its not really possible, seeing as the opportunity is long since lost, but what would have been really interesting is to see if your chemical response systems changed durring these 'transitions'..

A simple problem is present with such studies and the assumptions that one would make by doing such studies and it goes as follows: You are assuming that chemical change in the brain is causing the "change in preference". You are not accounting for the probability that it is the "change in preference" that causes the chemical change. Studies on such a thing would not actually tell you anything really, other than perhaps falsely bolster an assumption.

Studies are good, scientific experientation is why the animals that should be able to eat us are being made extinct by us. These things catapulted a pretty fragile and poorly built mammal to the top of this planet's food chain. That being said, thinking that a study will give you proof once and for all about X is naive. sorry to call you that, but hey... Just take it as a friendly pat on the back from another esoterist.

8)

[WhatMeWorry?]

Truth - Sexuality. From there we pick what we won't do / don't want to do / not interested in. Some choices are conscious, some are not, and some we make for ourselves and some others make for us.

That sounds like my simple, easy to use classification system that had several billion labels in it. A pity I never got around to developing it further.

A followup for you, part of the reason I call the rest bullshit is because it is so inadequate in describing one's actual preference. My preferences run more along the lines of "athletic, caring, genuine smile, confident, feminine, loyal, intelligent, fun-loving, attractive". Whatever equipment they use for sex I could care less about. Besides, penetrative sex is only one very small niche of sex overall, and not always the best tool for the job... 8)

And if you add to the mix that such a extreme stereotyping of sexual preference is quite recent in mankind's history, I have a hard time respecting such absurd labels other than for the purposes of communications with those who don't know any better.

[Sweet or Sour]

Not so much that it would conclude completely, just that if a trend could be noticed, just that it would be interesting [at least to me.] Mostly it would just be for the sake of noticing if it didn't change, and the various sexualities were just expressions from within the bounds of what our brain decided was acceptable....

or if a change did occure, not that its source is ___ or that it was the cause of ___, just that it does change and isn't static.

Oh well, not pretending to know conclusively what i'm talking about right now, so perhaps its just making me sound grossly uninformed, just that its an interesting subject for me and good writings on it are hard to come by.[writings that if anyone has good links to concerning the subjects at hand, would be greatly appreciated forming a line in my private message box]

[Wilmo]

yeah, well, this is the kind of nonsense that will get those parents blocked out of his life later-on.

[CJBurgandy]

You got me nervous with the thread subject. I thought "Oh isn't that just fucking great. Fundie trolls have found this forum and are going to stir up shit".

well in all honestly Ghastly it does appear that a troll has found your forum, he's just not a fundie nor did he start the thread.

[Subhuman]

Yowza. How did I miss this thread?

First of all, that brainwashing camp....oy on a plate. Don't even get me started.

Secondly, I genuinely don't think "nurture" has anything to do with whether someone turns out gay or not. I don't think there is a "gay gene" per se, but it must be included somewhere in the brain chemistry, like the way some people are better at drawing than math. If that makes any sense. I had crushes on girls when I first hit puberty (I'm a guy, fyi), but after a couple of years I started realizing that I was never attracted to them sexually. And it had nothing to do with my upbringing - it just came about. Poof, I'd rather have a cock, thanks.

So as for "nature vs. nurture"....ehh. Both sides are faulty, but "nature" is probably closer to the reality, IMO.

[Major Maxillary]

i'm thinking both have a hand in it.

don't tell the army, but i could be classified as bisexual. however, i just never saw any real difference between guys and dames beyond the obvious. however, i've alsways been told that "homosexuality is an abomination in the eyes of God."

i remember one time, when my sister was on this Bon Jovi kick that she said she was bi, and she was all like "yeah, being bi is sooo great and watnot." so, true to my nature, i looked into it to see what the big deal was. and i figured, this makes sense. so i was like, yeah, i'm bi, too. at least until i made the mistake of actually saying that.

"you mean you like to have sex with A MAN!?"

yeah. anyway, i've never been one to follow trends, and i've tended to get excluded alot for that, so i figured, why give people one more reason to spit on me.

i don't claim to reprisent anyone but myself, but i think that may be the case for most people. i read someplace(that first site i linked to) that not alot of people are really just straight or gay. but it's a matter of social toleance that allow people to express their sexuality.

like the greeks, they had this saying; Women for babies, Men for fun, Boys for pleasure. practically all of them were flaming fags and pedophiles. it was just their preference, they didn't see someone who preferred med over women as a deviant anymore than someone today would be labelled a deviant for preferring football to hockey. it just wasn't a cactegory for judgement. however, then you had the prudish Jews, Christians, and Muslims demonizing homosexuality(somehow i get the feeling the Roman Empire had something to do with their view on this subject), and that has lived on to today. where hard-liners talk about how you're somehow sub-human if you preffer the hard, throbbing man-rod over the moist, warm lady-hole. kids get brought up being indoctrinated into this mentality, and so they naturally hate non-heterosexuals. this is where the nurture comes in. society doesn't like deviation, especially closed societies like a religious theocracy. anyway, this is the kind of "nurture" that is relevant to this situation; "fundies" trying to "pray out the gay." acting like it's some sodomite plague on the land.

i guess i'm fortunate for having a family that was either non-practicing, or mormon. you know who told me that "homosexuality is an abomination in the eyes of God?" my Mormon mother. and she's the only person who's actually never turned her back on me. i'm not sayng my family abandoned me the moment they found out of my preferences, it was never really a secret. my dad just doesn't care, ut he's had a habit of lying to me, and breaking promises, my sister and I are like heyena cubs regardless of whatever, but my mother, who straight up says that that i'm committing a religious atrocity, has been more supportive of me than anyone in my entire life, despite the fact that she's only been around for about five of the past twelve years. how could an admittedly fundamentalist still be that supportive, simple, it depends on the religion. my mother was tought to "Hate the sin, love the sinner" and that "God gave us free will to do with what we choose." so although she doesn't like what I do, she knows that it's my choice to make, and even though i comit sins of the flesh, it's the sins of the soul that are what matters. i mean, King David, the slayer of Goliath, was a bleeding letcher who sent a man off to the front lines (and then ordered a full retreat, leaving that one man to face the enemy alone) so he could sleep with the poor smuck's wife, then you have Noah, who was a filthy drunkard, and lots of other sinners who were still louded as heroes. the regular christans don't talk about the flaws, because they like to talk about how perfect they are. like these fundie bastards.


anyway, my point is that it's not just nature or nurture, but bot to different degrees.

[MNsane]

"The world is a tragedy to those who feel, and a comedy to those who think."

that being said, [bastard mode]HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

heh, germantown. pffft! "PRAY OUT TEH GHAY! BELIVE IN JAYSUS! HE WILL CURE YOUR LUST FOR OTHER MEN!"

"JAYSUS CURED MAH LUST FER OTHER MEN!"



hey, you know what can cure one's lust, my crotch.

that's right, my crotch was touched by the almighty God himself! IT HAS PERFORMED MIRACLES BEFORE, AND IT WILL PERFORM MIRACLES AGAIN! ACCEPT THE GLORY THAT IS MY CROTCH, BRING IT INSIDE OF YOU, AND YOU WILL KNOW TRUE INNER PEACE AND JOY! GLORY BE TO GOD AND MY CROTCH!

[/bastard mode]

sounds like that kid's dad is "Homophobe Jones" from Loserz