You tell me what's fucked up

[Swordsman3003]

This pro-vegetarian video turned me on. Sexually. What the fuck people, what the fuck.

[Seth Marati]

Probably an effect of prolonged exposure to 4chan and its ilk, where suffering and degradation are unabashedly sexualized.

[WangyJohn]

Relevant.

[Lulujayne]

..... I got as far as the chicken falling over because it's weak little legs couldn't support its own body weight, then I had to turn it off. It made me feel ill.

*puts on her Alfred Kinsey lab coat*

I am, however, deeply interested as to what was about that film which turned you on, Swordsie.

[PopeMac]

..... I got as far as the chicken falling over because it's weak little legs couldn't support its own body weight, then I had to turn it off. It made me feel ill.

That's about how far I got, though it was mostly because of my attention span running out. That, and I got the feeling that I would find the rest of the video extremely unpleasant, since I really don't enjoy seeing that sort of thing. Having said that, there is nothing unpleasant enough to make me give up my love of steak and bacon.

Anyway, Swordsie, I am going to have to advocate the Freudian viewpoint and assume that the video reminds you of your mother in some way, who you obviously want to sleep with. Seriously, though, Freud must have really wanted to sleep with his mom. All that stuff he said about guys in general wanting to sleep with their mothers was just a way for him to make himself feel normal.

[Lulujayne]

Swordsie's mother is a chicken?

[Swordsman3003]

*puts on her Alfred Kinsey lab coat*

I am, however, deeply interested as to what was about that film which turned you on, Swordsie.

I don't know.....that's what I'm trying to figure out.

[PopeMac]

Swordsie's mother is a chicken?

She must be. The only other explanation is that Freud was batshit insane, and that just can't be true.

[Aeridus]

Freud wanted to sleep with his father, his mother was just a diversion.

[Xnapalmxmorningx]

well you did write that bed time story about rounding people up, shipping them off to an assembly line and then turning them into something new....

anyhoo... somehow I made it though the video with out batting an eye. Although I kept thinking about how if you worked in a slaughter house you could never get rid of the smell.

[Honor]

*puts on her Alfred Kinsey lab coat*

I am, however, deeply interested as to what was about that film which turned you on, Swordsie.

I don't know.....that's what I'm trying to figure out.

Aw, fer christ's sake... why'd you have to go and say that...?

Now I have to watch the damned thing, so I can answer.

[Hydrajak]

Its irritating to me to see people that have a really good point screw it up with sloppy logic.

The chickens we raise today have been "genetically manipulated" only if you consider cross breeding specialties for the traits you want "genetic manipulation".

Everything else they said was true... factory farms are evil. Buy your meat from a farmer you know, where you can visit the farm..... or don't eat it. If you can't handle the way it is killed, you should go without.

We farm, we raise chickens. Leg injuries are a sign of bad care. Long sheds filled with 1000s of chickens are just asking for a disaster.

[Ghastly]

Yeah I grew up in a small rural town so a lot of my friends in school had parents who were farmers. It was generally not in their interest to lose animals to disease an ill health so keeping the animals in conditions that promoted either was not an option.

As for the clubbing sick turkeys to death. Those turkeys are dead the moment club hits egg-like skull. The "flapping around on the ground in pain until they slowly die" is the same as chickens running around after their heads have been cut off. Adrenaline causing posthumous muscle spasms. Nothing more.

PeTA (an organization I despise since they're nothing but attention whores using the gullible to make money) finds bad farms and then paints them as being an example of every farmer out there.

[Detective Clem]

*puts on her Alfred Kinsey lab coat*

I am, however, deeply interested as to what was about that film which turned you on, Swordsie.

I don't know.....that's what I'm trying to figure out.

Aw, fer christ's sake... why'd you have to go and say that...?

Now I have to watch the damned thing, so I can answer.

I propose a reaction style solo pornographic video starring Honor... For science, of course.
commence the shlicking!

[Lulujayne]

This might be coming out of left field, and I know your idea is awesome in theory, but somehow I just can't picture our Resident Glorious Valkyrie getting her groove on to the squwaks of dying chickens.

However, I've been wrong before...

[Seth Marati]

Those turkeys are dead the moment club hits egg-like skull. The "flapping around on the ground in pain until they slowly die" is the same as chickens running around after their heads have been cut off. Adrenaline causing posthumous muscle spasms. Nothing more.

It's just another example of people imposing human characteristics on other species. If we saw a human spasming and convulsing after such brutal treatment, we'd think they were putting up a struggle or were in intense pain. I may be mistaken about this, but most human bodies don't spasm and convulse after the head is destroyed; they just go limp. However, even if I am mistaken, and spasms can occur, most people wouldn't be aware of that fact, and so the propaganda works on the conception that the human body will go limp once it's "100% dead". In either case, we certainly don't run around once our heads have been lopped off, so the implication is that anything that does must still be alive to a degree that it can feel pain. They take what is, in the case of the birds, an entirely automatic response and attribute meaning to it based on what it would signify if a person were doing the same thing, as a result of the poorly thought-out personification which they apply to the animals in a larger sense.

Also, this personification is what I think allowed for the video to have the effect on swordsman that it did. It sets the animals up as no different from us in terms of what they can think and feel, so their pain becomes meaningful for us as if it were people being treated that way, but it still retains a level of separation between us and them that prevents full-blown disgust and moral outrage.

The chickens we raise today have been "genetically manipulated" only if you consider cross breeding specialties for the traits you want "genetic manipulation".

Genetic engineering is simply the next step in plant and animal husbandry. PETA needs to pull their heads out of their asses and realize that, but of course they won't, since they wouldn't be PETA if they could think in terms outside of moral absolutism. Without any degree of "manipulating nature" for our own purposes, we wouldn't have many of the animals or even plants that we use for food and other materials today. Corn, for instance, is our most widely used crop, and also our most domesticated. Wild corn has tiny ears filled with kernels that are individually cased in hard shells, making it unsuitable for eating. I can't imagine most PETA members or PETA-minded individuals would be willing to give up all foodstuffs that have been altered by humans in some way and go back to living as we did before agriculture. Of course, I've met a few who claim to feel that way, along with feeling like we should experience the tremendous drop in population (read: billions of deaths) that would result, because humans are "destroying the planet"; I think they're just misanthropes who have found a relatively socially acceptable outlet for their hatred.

I still want to know what PETA thinks about animals who eat other animals.

[Swordsman3003]

Overall, I feel like the video is an argument for improved animal welfare laws, not an argument to go vegetarian.

The one thing that I didn't already know that they said in the video, though, was that pigs go insane from the lack of mental stimulation in the factory farms. I don't think that's propaganda; pigs are among the top ten or fifteen smartest animals on the planet. It's not going to stop me from eating pork....but I do think the poor things could use some better treatment.

[Seth Marati]

I watched it with the sound off when I went all the way through, so I missed a lot of what was actually said in the video. When it got to pigs, I did wonder about the effects factory farm conditions have on them, since I know they're smart animals (I saw a list excluding humans that ranked them 10th, but it was kind of old and I don't know how they ranked them or what they might have left out). I guess I would have gotten an answer if I'd had the sound on, though I don't know how much stock I'd have put in it. But it seems plausible, given their intelligence. And I feel bad for them, too, if that's the case. The indignation demonstrated above has to do with PETA's reasoning and methods more than anything else.

An emerging ambition/dream of mine is to identify the biological and physical mechanics of sentience and sapience to a degree of exactness that hasn't yet been achieved. I want to know where consciousness comes from, and what exactly has to form in order for it to emerge. If the knowledge could be applied to animal ethics, it would do a lot to affect the flow of the discourse.

[Hydrajak]

The one thing that I didn't already know that they said in the video, though, was that pigs go insane from the lack of mental stimulation in the factory farms. I don't think that's propaganda; pigs are among the top ten or fifteen smartest animals on the planet. It's not going to stop me from eating pork....but I do think the poor things could use some better treatment.

"I mean yeah.... so those death camps are rough on the Jews, but look at all the good things the Nazi's have brought us."

Sorry, your ethics is weak. Either its wrong or its not. If its wrong and you support it, you are wrong.

[Lulujayne]

I think that's retarded. Are you actually trying to start an argument? If you are, you blew your wad early, it's always best to leave the Nazi schtick 'till your second to last post for a grand finale.

I don't understand what that has to do with anything, unless you didn't eat enough protien today