Some RTD observations...

Postby Striker on Tue Apr 16, 2002 12:15 pm

Since the forum is rather slow today, I thought I'd post a discussion starter that's even, to some extent, on-topic...


A few friends of mine have recently been reading the RTD series, and we've had a little chat about that while extremely tired and on a major sugar high (an all too common condition among roleplayers...damn junk food)...several interesting points surfaced.

-In a story such as this, everybody who isn't a 'main character' (who get special treatment) or a faceless extra (who may not be important enough to get killed on-camera) is doomed to a grisly death. Main characters are immortal until about three pages before the end of the story, where they may die in a heroic death scene. Thus, it might be possible, by figuring out who the 'main characters' are to predict their survival chances in RTD3. So far, we've only managed to pinpoint two definite 'mains': Sox and Buster Charlie. Large parts of RTD1 are focused on Sox, and RTD2 has him rise to a position of authority. He's hero material. Buster Charlie on the other hand is the 'grizzled war veteran' type who's too tough to die unless it's in the last few minutes of the story and he's doing it in a majorly heroic way. Kompy is another possibility, Riff's survival, on the other hand, is unlikely because of the 'prophecy effect'.

-Speaking of which...it basically means that, if something is foreshadowed by any means such as strange dreams, odd visions, fortune tellers or similar in a dramatic story such as this one, it will happen. Thus, because of the dream Dr. Inhandra Riff has in front of the 'hive' creature, she's pretty much dead, and so is Isomorph. A wolf and a 'hedgehog girl' are also mentioned, the wolf (Silver, the character of one Tiffany Soto) dies messily in RTD2 (are there any non-messy deaths in the RTD series? :grin: ). I haven't been able to spot a hedgehog character whose creator is called 'Sara' so far, and my best guess is the character 'Missy' who has the right hairstyle and doesn't show up in the credits.

-'Sidekick' type characters have an increased chance of survival as well simply by close association with a main character. Ron seems to fall into that category by association with Sox.

-Cuteness wins. Pug, the resident enigmatic but hopelessly cute fuzzy critter, will probably turn out to be quite important in RTD3. By a similar rule, humorously insane characters like Stormy also have a high probability of having a destiny.

-When Sox says 'We will win', he's probably right from a strategic point of view. The knowledge of the 'virus factories' gives the FI neat, well-defined targets, and with the Horde down, there's nothing to prevent them from retaking the W.O.G. and using it to wipe out those targets (which could be located by measuring virus density in the air).

-The RTD soundtrack should be done by Basil Poledouris.


-Lastly, - and this has a high chance of being misinterpreted, it is in no way an attempt to insult the graphic novel or its creator, just a load of cerebral toxic waste released into the environment by a few twisted minds - the general consensus was that while it's great storytelling and drama, the FI makes a few glaring tactical and strategical errors...to quote a friend with considerable military knowledge: 'No wonder they got their asses kicked'.
-The airdrop in RTD2 was suicidal. Dropping unprotected troops into unknown and highly dangerous territory by parachute is something that's simply not done. Airdrops usually take place several miles from any possible target, as paratroops are sitting ducks during and immediately after the landing. Dropping the power armors in first might have done the trick, as they could have pulled out again using their jump jets.
-Speaking of the armors, their automatic weapons are described as being 'armor-piercing'. Now, if you're fighting something like a 'work, armor-piercing weaponry is the last thing you want. AP ammo is notoriously bad at transferring its kinetic energy to a target, so, if you shoot a charging rework and don't score a headshot, chances are high that the shot will go straight thtough without causing any major damage and it'll still be coming at you. With a non-penetrating bullet (hollow-point, for example), that rework would at least be off-balance and stopped for a second due to the sheer kinetic energy of the impact.
-If the implant technology is far enough for fully functional artificial limbs, what's to prevent somebody from drilling a hole in the base of each FI trooper's skull, filling it with a shape-charge explosive firing inward and linking the trigger to a vital sign monitor? Just another RPG-influenced idea, I guess :grin:.
-No helmets. Hello, ricochet, hello shrapnel :grin:.


Any other thoughts? I need something to talk about, dammit *grin*.





(Again, no offense meant by the last part. If it does offend, it's as good as removed the moment I hear about it.)
Striker
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 388
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2002 4:00 pm
Location: Vienna, Austria

Postby Max Damage on Tue Apr 16, 2002 12:29 pm

This is the Jack forums.. Home of Musical Holes. I doubt anyone will be too offended by anything.
We may be pirates, but we're not barbarians. We'll let them keep the toilet paper.
- Tiesel Bonne, Megaman Legends.
Max Damage
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2002 4:00 pm
Location: The darker recesses of The Wired

Postby DeByrus on Tue Apr 16, 2002 12:42 pm

I have no opinions whatsoever
True terror is waking up and realizing that your high school class is running the country.
DeByrus
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2002 4:00 pm
Location: 20 miles Below the Surface of the Earth

Postby Paul_Pinewood on Tue Apr 16, 2002 12:43 pm

Good points. Me neither want to insult anybody, but at the paradrop I immediately thought: "Eep. Where is the strategic napalm when you need it". Some those things are though more propably missing just because of the lack of recourses. Besize as handy as the bomb in skull is, I wouldn't want such for me, because technology is always vulnerable for errors"

#1: "What are those explosions outside? Are the troops training with explosives?"
#2: "That could be put so. But the explosions come from random failures of vital sensors. We have less troops every minute".
#1: "Damn".
Paul_Pinewood
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 162
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
Location: Cold north

Postby -Penance- on Tue Apr 16, 2002 1:11 pm

Seeing as the city was already lost, it might have been wise for the FI to source up all the BLU-82 Daisy Cutter/Commando Vault bombs or similar high-powered bombs.

To begin with, napalm would be a bad idea because of its duration effect - the gasoline/polystyrene/benzene (33%, 41%, and 21%, respectively, as used in the Mk77 incendiary bomb) gel [of which a Mk77 bomb has room for about 75 gallons] burns for a long time... How long, I'm not sure, but dropping soldiers on it calls for a company with tough boots.

The BLU-82 was used in Vietnam to clear out 'commando vaults;' basically gigantic circles of charred black jungle in the 600-900 foot destructive radius of the bomb. Then, soldiers could be moved into that zone and set up a fortification. Something like that, anyways...

You'd think that Military intelligence would be a lot better off. If you have an orbital station with sort of a particle projection cannon thing on it, why not have a couple of satellites taking pictures of stuff up there?

Hmm... As for troop equipment, it makes me wonder that you see no soldiers equipped for medium assault or demolitions, there is no [substantial] armor support, negligible air support [although I understand that they are flying cargo/transport helicopters - but most transports carry at least a machine gun, really].

I found RTD reminded me a lot of Starship Troopers - dump some soldiers somewhere with no support, no unit variance ["Yeah, we found a nuke launcher ... somewhere. Other than that, we're all carrying the 5.56x45mm Morita rifle."]. The 'block infantry' tactic of ST and RTD only works well [and it's currently in the works with the Land Warrior 2003 and Objective Force Warrior systems] if the infantry are equipped with a modular weapons system which allows them the capability of operating in varied roles. My modification in RTD: Valiant [I think I'm just going to write it up as a story now, instead of making a comic] to the Pathmaker weapons line was not only to spawn a whole plethora of other weapons [specific to soldier roles, i.e. a light rifle for scouts, standard assault rifle, multirole assault platform, single-soldier anti-armor systems, blah blah] but also to make the 'Pathmaker Rifle' of RTD into such a modular weapons system.

This also means I'm a loser... And I'm done. x.x
With you, I stand in hope
That God will save us from ourselves.
-Penance-
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
Location: Rockford, IL, USA

Postby TheRedWolf on Tue Apr 16, 2002 1:27 pm

where can I find RTD?
TheRedWolf
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 186
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm

Postby Mr. HappyPants on Tue Apr 16, 2002 3:16 pm

Mr. HappyPants
Newbie
 
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2002 4:00 pm

Postby Max Damage on Tue Apr 16, 2002 3:39 pm

Okay, it's almost 2am here, but those little 'character comments' at the bottom of most pages are, IMHO, just plain hilarious.

May the flaming commence :grin:
We may be pirates, but we're not barbarians. We'll let them keep the toilet paper.
- Tiesel Bonne, Megaman Legends.
Max Damage
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2002 4:00 pm
Location: The darker recesses of The Wired

Postby Demawox on Tue Apr 16, 2002 4:19 pm

Paratroopers wouldn't work as such in that situation, period. Now, if you had special APC's, maybe. Quite simply, you'd need to drop with heavy armor going in first to clear up the area. I don't mean just heavy tanks. Well armored APC's equipped with multi-directional machine guns mounts (armored turrets) would work far more effeciently in anti-personel roles. You'd have to worry about cross-fire, so the ammuntion that should be used better be useless against the APC's armor but very effective on the soft rotting flesh of a rework. Lead .308 hollow points should be fine to use around an APC with depleted uranium armor (also would be a damn tough hide for a rework to slash thru, infact impossible without some very odd mutation). Several APC's should have rockets instead of machineguns incase some of the really bigass reworks come around. Definatley you'd want them few and far to the outside.

Since we're dealing with future tech, why not some battlemechs? Higher up and more maneuverable. If you take the standard light mech, they can carry an array of .30 and .50 caliber machine guns as well as a few rocket hardpoints. Don't wanna get too far into energy weapons since I'm not sure what would be available. A good laser could cut massive holes in a horde rush (not a blaster laser, but a continuously energized one, like from the move Congo.) PPC's would let loose some nice splash damage. Flamers, used on zombies that are damaged by fire, could be a cheap, short range means of cutting paths thru the horde to allow infantry to take up position. A limber tank could do the same, but they'd fire straight forward instead of in a downward angle, leaving anyone forward but out of site in some serious trouble. A mech with jump jets could be invaluable in getting in and out of a swarm. Also the mechwarrior would have the option of ejecting to safety if their mech was overtaken. A tank crew would pretty much be stuck.

Another thing to think about is what sort of artillery support would you use in an assault. Dropping a few experienced crews in Howitzers (tank-like artillery pieces) could allow you for quick strikes against an advancing swarm of zombies. They'd also be convienent in dropping buildings or creating other slowing terrain.
I remember now. I remember how it started.
I can't remember yesterday, I just remember doing... what they told me...
Demawox
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2002 4:00 pm
Location: Ohio

Postby Max Damage on Tue Apr 16, 2002 4:25 pm

Sheeesh! By now, everyone should know that the ultimate anti-zombie vehicle is a combine harvester - rotating blades of doom ahoy!

As for personnel-based anti-zombie weaponry.. Back to basics, and taking the harvester idea a little smaller - how bout a power-mower? Nobody here ever seen Brain Dead? :wink:
We may be pirates, but we're not barbarians. We'll let them keep the toilet paper.
- Tiesel Bonne, Megaman Legends.
Max Damage
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2002 4:00 pm
Location: The darker recesses of The Wired

Postby Demawox on Tue Apr 16, 2002 4:37 pm

The problem would be with that technique would be that you'd have to make the harvester combat ready. Farm equipment isn't designed to be airlifted and chucked around from battlefield to battlefield. You'd also have to make the "cockpit" and vital areas safe from the zombies that would hit you from the sides and behind.
I remember now. I remember how it started.
I can't remember yesterday, I just remember doing... what they told me...
Demawox
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2002 4:00 pm
Location: Ohio

Postby Cypress on Tue Apr 16, 2002 5:09 pm

Unn... Tor want sandwich.
Arena Master
_________________
What happens when you die? Flip the switch and find out!
Cypress
Cartoon Hero
 
Posts: 1153
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
Location: Canada, thats all youll get!

Postby Max Damage on Tue Apr 16, 2002 5:12 pm

It's sci-fi. You'd figure that they'd work out some way of adapting a harvester for long-term battlefield zombie-chopping duty.

Simple is always best - why use something as complicated as a super high-tech gun when you can just use big pointy sticks, knives or swords? :razz:

Plus, you don't have to worry about running out of ammo with swords.
We may be pirates, but we're not barbarians. We'll let them keep the toilet paper.
- Tiesel Bonne, Megaman Legends.
Max Damage
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2002 4:00 pm
Location: The darker recesses of The Wired

Postby Demawox on Tue Apr 16, 2002 5:21 pm

A power suit armed with a large sword would be very cost effective, as long as the suits come back.
I remember now. I remember how it started.
I can't remember yesterday, I just remember doing... what they told me...
Demawox
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2002 4:00 pm
Location: Ohio

Postby Cypress on Tue Apr 16, 2002 5:30 pm

If you haven't noticed in RTD 1, there are power suits, but they work on a limited enerfy suply... swords would be effective, but the would have to be made of a special alloy to kill the mofos. Nah, screw swords, a rifle with exploding heads would do the job, add a bayonet on the thing to get the bastards off of you when they get to close.

What they do need though is a small whiper to remove excess blood that would have a tendency to splatter on the visor of the helmet, one rhino dude croaked when his vision was impaired and he took off the helmet.

I have the entirety of RTD 1, now I want RTD 2, but it's enormous size is a freaky download... erf, anyone know of a reliable site I can get it off of?
Arena Master
_________________
What happens when you die? Flip the switch and find out!
Cypress
Cartoon Hero
 
Posts: 1153
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
Location: Canada, thats all youll get!

Postby Demawox on Tue Apr 16, 2002 5:35 pm

A vibroblade perhaps? that would make cutting thru bodies far easier. Or the good ol chainsaw.

A built-up power suit armed with a special cutting weapon, modular arm cannon, and possibly rocket hardpoints or other hardware on either side of the head could make for a very powerful mechanized infantry unit. Think Elementals from battletech.
I remember now. I remember how it started.
I can't remember yesterday, I just remember doing... what they told me...
Demawox
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 123
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2002 4:00 pm
Location: Ohio

Postby Lobo on Tue Apr 16, 2002 8:37 pm

APC with depleted uranium armor (also would be a damn tough hide for a rework to slash thru, infact impossible without some very odd mutation).

Depleted uranium releases toxic fumes and even ignites ( :grin: ) when struck with enough kinetic energy, which is why it is so good for non explosive tank-killing rounds, but not so good for tank (or APC) armor.

Has anyone here seen Gasaraki? Best and most realistic combat mecha I've seen in anime. Speaking of which (to take the gist of Striker's original post completely off topic), I've noticed a recent trend in anime: if you have silver hair, you're pretty much doomed, but you won't die untill the very end of the episode/series. It's a recurring trend in Cowboy Bebop, Evangelion, and Noir, just to name a few.

And I still think 'Tor Johnson: Hollywood Superstar' is way cooler than the vogon poetry society, or whatever it's called ( :razz: ).

_________________
Behold, Spooky! the thing what SQUEEKS!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Lobo on 2002-04-16 21:38 ]</font>
Lobo
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2002 4:00 pm
Location: spooksville, spookonia

Postby Garoshy on Tue Apr 16, 2002 9:26 pm

On 2002-04-16 13:15, Striker wrote:


-In a story such as this, everybody who isn't a 'main character' (who get special treatment) or a faceless extra (who may not be important enough to get killed on-camera) is doomed to a grisly death. Main characters are immortal until about three pages before the end of the story, where they may die in a heroic death scene. Thus, it might be possible, by figuring out who the 'main characters' are to predict their survival chances in RTD3. So far, we've only managed to pinpoint two definite 'mains': Sox and Buster Charlie. Large parts of RTD1 are focused on Sox, and RTD2 has him rise to a position of authority. He's hero material. Buster Charlie on the other hand is the 'grizzled war veteran' type who's too tough to die unless it's in the last few minutes of the story and he's doing it in a majorly heroic way. Kompy is another possibility, Riff's survival, on the other hand, is unlikely because of the 'prophecy effect'.


I disagree with the part that the main characters die heroicly.
Cliff was one of the main characters in RTD2 and he didn't die heroicly! Gutted before he could shoot back and died after sayng some words.
Ludey, (Sox's friend), died heroicly in RTD1. He died saving his friends by blowing him self up.
If that isn't heroic death, then I don't have a clue what heroic is...

_________________
People who don't know me see a shy and quite person
People who know me see a playfull and talkactive Lynx.
What do you see?

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Garoshy on 2002-04-16 22:29 ]</font>
Garoshy
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
Location: Grimstad, Aust-Agder, Norway

Postby -Penance- on Tue Apr 16, 2002 9:47 pm

Probably a good alternative to DU is the Chobham composite [it's believed to be a derivative ceramic] used in the British Challenger 2 and American M1A2 Abrams MBTs. Although I'm not sure about its weight load efficiency, it's damn good stuff.
With you, I stand in hope
That God will save us from ourselves.
-Penance-
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
Location: Rockford, IL, USA

Postby -Penance- on Tue Apr 16, 2002 10:06 pm

Though, you know, at close range [such as when they were stuck in that one building... umm] the FI could have done well to have Masterkey-type shotguns mounted under their Pathmaker rifles [I added a Masterkey-type shotgun to the RTD: Valiant universe Pathmaker TAK-W13]. Trying to drop a charging target with a volley of assault rifle-caliber rounds is tough shit.
With you, I stand in hope
That God will save us from ourselves.
-Penance-
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
Location: Rockford, IL, USA

Next

 

Return to Jack



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests