The morality of suicide.

El SillY · Post by **El SillY** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 2:46 pm

On 2002-03-20 14:34, Arcaton wrote:
He doen't seem from his book to be a particularly pleasant person....perhaps others would be interested?

Who would be after years of seeing people dying at your hands?

Vazagi · Post by **Vazagi** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 2:53 pm

A lot of these people... :|

-Penance- · Post by **-Penance-** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 4:19 pm

As someone who's attempted as frequently as I have for the same reason every time, it boils down to this:

"Do you believe in the nobility of suicide?"

Don't ask me what that's supposed to mean. ^_^

El SillY · Post by **El SillY** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 4:24 pm

On 2002-03-20 14:53, Vazagi wrote:
A lot of these people... :|

Well, perhaps, but they do have a different outlook on things. They believe what they are doing is right.

-El SillY, everything is right from some ones point of view.

Arcaton · Post by **Arcaton** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 4:30 pm

"No matter how strait the gate
Or how charged the scroll
I am the captain of my fate
the master of my soul"
If there is any nobility in suicide it would seem to be in the idea of the individual wresting control of his fate from unyielding fate........
The problem with suicide is that it can inadvertently involve others....as with the individual who jumped from a motorway bridge and survived, but killed the truck driver whose windscreen he went through....or the traumatic effect on those who have to pick up the bits of suicide from the trackside; and what about the effects on the driver of the train?.

Elliot N. Golunda · Post by **Elliot N. Golunda** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 4:43 pm

On 2002-03-20 16:19, -Penance- wrote:
As someone who's attempted as frequently as I have for the same reason every time, it boils down to this:

"Do you believe in the nobility of suicide?"

Don't ask me what that's supposed to mean. ^_^

I could be very much mistaken, but I doubt that most suicides really want to just die, period. More likely, they genuinely want something better than they have, usually a life without the guilt, grief, pain, or prospect of a hideous (or hopeless) future, that they currently endure. From what I've heard, a great many suicide attempts (especially by teenagers) are meant as a cry for help, not a determined effort to snuff oneself.
_________________
Just point me towards the nearest Starbucks. Preferably one that hasn't been trashed by anarchists.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Elliot N. Golunda on 2002-03-20 16:53 ]</font>

Krikkit · Post by **Krikkit** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 6:11 pm

It is said that those who truly want to die get a gun(or call Kevorkian) and do it, without chance of survival, no pills, no razors, no heads in the oven.
I believe the rest of them are exactly as you say. It was so with me, I felt like I was under a thousand layers of shit and didnt see a way out.
That was alonglongtimeago, sall good now.

ThingfromtheDeep · Post by **ThingfromtheDeep** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 6:46 pm

Lobo... from Discworld MUD? It's Puzzle.

Later...

( if not, forget it)

Kibbles · Post by **Kibbles** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 7:23 pm

I believe there are different terminologies for the various self destructive acts.

Suicidal gestures is different that suicidal tendancies. A gesture is non lethal and made with the intent not to die (if that is an awareness or not on the side of the one doing it I dont know). Someone with suicidal tendancies is the sort to actually go through with it.

Kibbles · Post by **Kibbles** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 7:29 pm

On 2002-03-20 16:30, Arcaton wrote:
"No matter how strait the gate
Or how charged the scroll
I am the captain of my fate
the master of my soul"
If there is any nobility in suicide it would seem to be in the idea of the individual wresting control of his fate from unyielding fate........
The problem with suicide is that it can inadvertently involve others....as with the individual who jumped from a motorway bridge and survived, but killed the truck driver whose windscreen he went through....or the traumatic effect on those who have to pick up the bits of suicide from the trackside; and what about the effects on the driver of the train?.

Sometimes suicide is meant to DIRECTLY involve others, who may not deserve it. (I would say probably don't but I don't want to be charged at by angsty people who feel that their happiness rests on the lives of others, fodder for another thread I suppose and dont even know if this forum has those sorts residing in it. Its usually those of the 'my parents/girl/boyfriend/teacher RUINED MY LIFE' types. AHEM.) That is those like the person who kills his family and then himself, or who kills themselves in front of the person they are angry with, or makes sure they are in a place where their mother would find their body (and at the risk of sounding so snooty, its true, nothing worse that I can think of than your child dying. Even seeing your child in PAIN is horrible). Stuff like that. Or the friends at school who are stuck crying and wondering "Why" and the guilt of what they could have done to change things.

Suicide is selfish, and you know what? And I dont mean this disrespectfully but in a way even in the WTC situation, suicide is selfish because it was choosing THEIR way. But that was selfish in a good way (I do believe selfish can be good, sometimes).

I probably stopped making sense after the QUOTE, so I'll sign off for now. 2 days with hardly any sleep. WHEEEEEEE!

Life is fun with a newborn!

Cypress · Post by **Cypress** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 7:44 pm

*Smiles* You can't possibly have done anything worse than I have done in a sleep deprived state, don't sweat it.

Now as far as suicide goes, it sucks! Why bother comit an act of submission when your meer presence can pester your tormentors? Mweheheheee! Can't get rid of me THAT easily!

Now, WTC... I consider the jumpers in a grey area. Think about it: Whatever they did they where gonna die right? just letting the flames kill you or let something fall down on you would be letting it happen so in a way it is a very pale shade of suicide. It does not count though since they where forced into that situation by "Evil" (for lack of a better word.) forces so they took their chances in a minute attempt to survive...

The ones who leapt where taking their own chances of a possibility to survive, maybe land on something/someone crippling themselves but ultimatly coming out of it alive, or at least try. So, in a sense the leapers did what was beyond human capabilities to survive... can't really blame them for trying.

Makes any sense?

Cypress · Post by **Cypress** » Wed Mar 20, 2002 7:47 pm

The rules can't be broken, but they can be bent a little.

Babies are so damn adorable when they smile! Gah! can't believe I just said that!

Kibbles · Post by **Kibbles** » Fri Mar 22, 2002 3:30 am

On 2002-03-20 19:47, Cypress wrote:
The rules can't be broken, but they can be bent a little.

Babies are so damn adorable when they smile! Gah! can't believe I just said that!

Don't make me put up pictures! (Actually he was in NICU so the only pictures I have right now are of MECHABABY covered in wires and tubes. . .and he's too lil to smile. But I have other cute ones! You can tell I was raised Catholic, I'm really popping the babies out!

)

Arcaton · Post by **Arcaton** » Fri Mar 22, 2002 5:18 am

Ahhh SWEET!
Good luck!

Xzadfor · Post by **Xzadfor** » Fri Mar 22, 2002 6:35 am

The people who jumped, did so because of the intense heat and smoke that was filling the upper levels. With no way to get to the roof and hope for even a news helicopter to pick them up, the must have been in extreme panic.

As the flames, heat and smoke rose up the stairwells and elevator shafts there was no way to go anywhere and the fire was climbing up floor by floor.

I'm sure the jumpers waited as long as they could, breaking out the windows in the hopes of fresh, cool air.

Eventually it became unbearable and while some stayed and probably passed out due to the conditions, others may have obeyed instincts to get out, or they choose.

It's impossible to imagine the reactions of a human in those extreme and terrible conditions. For all we know the jumpers were the only ones alive on those floors and had no choice. I know I would jump before I burned to death. In some extreme odds it's somehow possible to survive a jump like that. It may be like winning the lottery but someone has to win someday.

As for God, I'm sure it's the intent and not the act that judges us.

_________________
-Xzadfor
"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason."
- Jack Handey

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Xzadfor on 2002-03-22 06:36 ]</font>

Michael Ezaiany · Post by **Michael Ezaiany** » Fri Mar 22, 2002 9:45 am

Like I said, we are not allowed to ease our pain, even if that's OUR life we end for that purpose. God's a mean bastard.

Xzadfor · Post by **Xzadfor** » Fri Mar 22, 2002 11:49 am

On 2002-03-22 09:45, Michael Ezaiany wrote:
Like I said, we are not allowed to ease our pain, even if that's OUR life we end for that purpose. God's a mean bastard.

Mike, I know God and I asked him about you. He's really not so bad but he warns that if you don't stop rubbing your cat's fur backwards, he's going to give you to Drip.

Michael Ezaiany · Post by **Michael Ezaiany** » Fri Mar 22, 2002 11:56 am

I don't have a cat.

El SillY · Post by **El SillY** » Fri Mar 22, 2002 12:09 pm

On 2002-03-22 11:49, Xzadfor wrote:
On 2002-03-22 09:45, Michael Ezaiany wrote:
Like I said, we are not allowed to ease our pain, even if that's OUR life we end for that purpose. God's a mean bastard.

Mike, I know God and I asked him about you. He's really not so bad but he warns that if you don't stop rubbing your cat's fur backwards, he's going to give you to Drip.

What did he say about me? No wait, I don't want to know...

Cypress · Post by **Cypress** » Fri Mar 22, 2002 12:11 pm

He saw what you did in the bathroom last night... How dare you use more than 20 squares of TP!!!