Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand Scene.

Wildcard9 · Post by **Wildcard9** » Tue May 10, 2005 5:39 pm

While I agree that Chapter 1 is not the greatest thing since Umlaut House

, it was not bad. Some things needed to expanded out more, or else I missed a few strips and got confused on the action. It was still a good story and I want to see it continue.

Allan_ecker · Post by **Allan_ecker** » Wed May 11, 2005 10:21 am

Due to the truly MIND WARPING degree of work (pun probably intended) involved in getting my MS, the "Beating a Dead Comic" segment now in progress will go on for another two updates. Thorry for the inconvenienth.

(The lithp malfunction hath been reported to the thcutterth.)

Cinni · Post by **Cinni** » Wed May 11, 2005 7:22 pm

The voices and I liked it. There was a certain degree of that 'Gimme more information, dammit!' feeling to it, but I feel like I know what is going on.

3 from me. But if there were more if it, I might rate it higher because there would be a greater sense of comprehension.

Cinni

Cyril_Dran · Post by **Cyril_Dran** » Thu May 12, 2005 7:13 am

I agree with Cinni to a degree... I mean, how would you rate the first 30 minutes of Star Wars, A New Hope? It'd be bland and disjointed. I think part of the frustration that a lot of people had was that they saw a developing world, and were looking for more information, but the pacing of the updates, and the lack of actual material, in the end, prevented it from coming through.

I think that after you get a few more chapters done, Allan, you should set aside a kind of separate archive for U0 somewhere, and have everything re read the whole thing start to finish, and see how it looks.

Maybe we should go back and kinda evaluate the strips as a kind of trailer or tease for the comic, rather than as a full work in and of itself, because, as of yet, U0 isn't a full work. It's a work in progress.

Andrick · Post by **Andrick** » Thu May 12, 2005 8:59 am

A New Hope was a really lousy story as a stand alone movie. Elements for major character foci were left hanging and unresolved, character stories were incomplete and there were some parts that just didn't seem to have any true relevence without the following movies. The original Star Wars sold on its special effects and puppeteering.

*waves a hand in front of Cyril* This is not the comparison you are looking for.

Allan_ecker · Post by **Allan_ecker** » Thu May 12, 2005 2:36 pm

This is pretty much what I have in mind doing; but I'm also seriously considering re-doing the whole first chapter so I can clean up, straighten, and lengthen the parts that need it. I also want to get this snippet of dialogue into the opening sequence:

"What do you want?"
"Let's start over, your line was 'what can I do for you, Viceroy?'"
"That's what I said, but you'll have to translate it into bullshit-ese for yourself."

Incidentially, I have a quick formula George Lucas can use to fix episodes one and two when he goes over them with dig-i-correct as he no doubt will in ten years:

Episode I:

* Give JarJar SOMETHING he's actually good at. Let him save someone, help someone, or in some way redeem his worthlessness.

* Shorten the podrace scene by about 15 minutes and add incidental music.

Episode II:

* Give Anakin SOMETHING not to be a dick about. Anything. Hell, I'd be happy if he even seemed a little more freaked out about the Tuskan Light Sabre Masacre he went on.

* Shorten the storm trooper clusterfuck to nearly nill.

And seriously, both movies would then be nearly Star Wars worthy.

Cyril_Dran · Post by **Cyril_Dran** » Thu May 12, 2005 5:20 pm

I personally thought New Hope was fine as a stand alone movie. But still, the example DOES work if you consider just the part of the movie before they got off of Tattooine as opposed to the whole film. You learn the basic personalities of nearly all of the main characters by that point, but you still have no freaking clue exactly what the heck is going on.

If you want a different comparison, I guess I could compare it to watching the first Harry Potter movie without reading the book, though... Really, if you want to understand the movies, you need to have read at least the first half of the first book, IMO. But, that's a rant for another day...

Also, I guess if you compared New Hope as an entire movie to the entire trilogy you can make the same comparison, but it's not as stark a contrast to me.

Finally: I never said New Hope explained everything. Hell, I came away from the entire trilogy thinking "What the hell was that blue thing Han shot in the first movie any damn ways?", so I wasn't really looking for a perfect end point. I just wanted to point out the difference between the two points... I'm focusing on delta X, not X1 or X2, I guess.

Anyways, I'm getting long winded, so I'll leave off before I start beating a dead horse..

Andrick · Post by **Andrick** » Sat May 14, 2005 8:50 am

I'd counter by saying that we do know what is going on by the time everyone loads up onto the Millenium Falcon.

Obi-wan, Old Ben, is some type of secret agent hiding out, a jedi knight. He was known to the princess as a general whom served her father and he is commissioned by her to get the stolen plans to Alderaan. He also knows something about Luke's father and offers to train him as a jedi.
Luke is a farmboy and pilot that yearns for a life away from the farm. His Aunt Purue and Uncle Owen both see this restlessness, one commenting that Luke is like his father while the other saying that is what he fears. Luke desperately wants to know about his father, but was tied down by the farm until it was wiped out by the Empire. Luke is enamored with the princess since R2 showed the video and he had pledged to Old Ben that he would learn to be a jedi.
Han is a laconic freighter pilot cum smuggler that is in deep to Jabba the Hut. Han needs money fast which lands him with the "old fossil" and kid as paying passengers. Greedo showed up as one of Jabba's bully-boys to emphasize that Jabba would be just as happy to see Han dead as to get his money. Han mentions his skill and his ship's speed by way of mentioning the Imperial fleet for comparison.
Not much is made of Chewbacca, just that he's Solo's first mate and the one Obi-wan talked to about getting passage off of Tattooine.
R2-D2 & C3PO are droids, comic relief and formerly belonging to the princess. They were to deliver the message the princess gave for Obi-wan. Mission accomplished, but they still belong to Luke (purchased at the Jawa Shopping Network) and still have the plans to "a new battlestation". R2 is the football which needs to get to the Rebel endzone; C3PO is along for the ride.
Darth Vader: the big bad-ass of the movie. Ruthless, evil, angry and powerful, Vader shows inhuman strength by single-handedly picking up a grown man by the throat and crushing his neck before throwing the lifeless body aside. It was also revealed that Vader is a jedi, has frightening "sorcerous ways" and answers to Grand Moff Tarkin. Oh yeah, and he wiped out the jedi.
Tarkin - HNIC. His introduction reveals just how vast the Empire is, that there is an emperor above him and that the Deathstar is his to command. The other admirals in the room also indicate the bredth and power of the Imperial fleet. 'nuff said.
Leia, by this point, has already passed off the McGuffin. She still knows where the Rebel base is, as she has demonstrably proved to be an ally of their cause, and is being plied for that information. The princess, however, proves to be resilient.

All of this information is known before we've even sees the Millenium Falcon. The characters and movie clearly have direction. The jedi were an ancient order with the Old Republic. There is a civil war and the Death Star represents a powerful weapon to crush the rebellion according to the Emperor's plans. It is a coherent story at this point and we know what is going on. Everything appropriate has been explained or demonstrated.

*waves a hand in front of Cyril... again* This is not the comparison you are looking for.

Hat-Kun · Post by **Hat-Kun** » Sat May 14, 2005 10:46 am

I still don't get how the Death Star can move. It has no visible engines....

RandomScribe · Post by **RandomScribe** » Sat May 14, 2005 11:01 am

Well, then maybe it has invisible engines.

Next question!

Allan_ecker · Post by **Allan_ecker** » Sat May 14, 2005 11:10 am

Well, presumably it doesn't move very FAST.

We've seen TIE fighters move quite nimbly with only a few very small ports sticking out of them, so maybe those ion engines are compact enough to have a lot of thrust and not look like giant engines.

Possibly the death star has, rather than a few big engines, many, many small engines, which on something the size of a small moon could easily get lost to the seemingly cueball-like surface.

Or, to be all geekified:

Warp engines do not require nacells in this universe. In the Star Trek universe, bending space requires that you do it off to the side of your main ship body (goodness only knows why) and all warp capable ships, with the singluar exception of the Borg, require little dangly bits on either side. (Borg cubes are using something different from ordinary warp drive, as was established later.) But at any rate, "space bending" technologies do not here require off-board motor-like ship extensions, and therefore could be wholly invisible. A space-bendy engine does not need to be lightspeed capable, so it seems plausible that the Death Star actually moves by "leaning" on space, rolling around on the trampoline-surface that is spacetime by internally shifting its gravitational profile.

Alfador · Post by **Alfador** » Sat May 14, 2005 1:20 pm

I think in the Star Trek universe, warp nacelles are as far away from the main crew section as possible, because they're really dangerous if they explode. It's considered easier to survive without a warp engine because you chucked it before it exploded, than to survive said explosion if it's still attached to your ship. Given that their faster-than-light communication doesn't seem to depend on an operational drive system, this is plausible.

In Star Wars, on the other paw, you've got an immense space station with top-of-the-line weapons technology. Their drive system could be made very, very safe. Why not put it right in the center, where its vulnerability to enemy fire is minimized? And hey, this universe, it might be the type where if it gets knocked out, only that system gets knocked out, instead of a massive explosion.

Their power reactor, on the gripping hand, is also right at the center--as seen in Part VI...

Allan_ecker · Post by **Allan_ecker** » Mon May 23, 2005 12:59 pm

However, I haven't ever seen (or heard of) a Star Trek ship jettisoning its nacells. They will eject the "warp core" on occasion, but the warp core is (presumably) not the same thing as the gravity drive, which is on the nacells. Also note, Zephram Cochran's warp ship has nacells, and his devotion to safety wasn't exactly up to Star Fleet standards, if you get my drift.

Also, if you take a look at the Romulan configuration, they have thier nacells at a distance, but they don't look at all like they could be jettisoned. Plus, can you -imagine- a Klingon giving the order to jettison the engines (leaving the ship utterly helpless) rather than blow up in a glorious fireball? Klingon engineers would, guaranteed, put nacells inside the ship if they could get away with it.

God I'm a nerd.

Alfador · Post by **Alfador** » Tue May 24, 2005 6:36 am

allan_ecker wrote:However, I haven't ever seen (or heard of) a Star Trek ship jettisoning its nacells. They will eject the "warp core" on occasion, but the warp core is (presumably) not the same thing as the gravity drive, which is on the nacells. Also note, Zephram Cochran's warp ship has nacells, and his devotion to safety wasn't exactly up to Star Fleet standards, if you get my drift.

Also, if you take a look at the Romulan configuration, they have thier nacells at a distance, but they don't look at all like they could be jettisoned. Plus, can you -imagine- a Klingon giving the order to jettison the engines (leaving the ship utterly helpless) rather than blow up in a glorious fireball? Klingon engineers would, guaranteed, put nacells inside the ship if they could get away with it.

God I'm a nerd.

Very good points. I guess they have to be a certain distance away from the center of mass for optimum performance, dependent on the total mass.

Although...look at the Klingon "Bird of Prey" design, notably seen in Star Trek III, IV, VI, and Generations. (I list movies because they're easier for most people to get ahold of than specific episodes...and because I'm not enough of a Star Trek geek to list said episodes) The things at the ends of the wings are too small to be warp nacelles; I think they're just guns.

Perhaps the Klingons did find a way to put the engines entirely inside. Blaze of glory, baby. Hoorah!

Comic Genesis Forums

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand Scene.

So... what did you think of Unit Zero Chapter One?