The dark side of truth

[Rico Underwood]

I'm having less effect with my little doses of opposing viewpoints. Maybe I'll have to actually have to do research now... But that would take time, lol, and I'm to lazy to try to force people to think like I do. Besides, its easier to believe that someone else up there will protect and guide us.

[W.M.Y.L.G. Joe]

I dunno... I put a lot of REALLY subtle aymbolism and stuff into the comic, and very few people notice it... that's why recently I've made all my hidden themes pretty obvious. And why my writing style has gone downhill.

I also will say there is something to be said for good storytelling. Sometimes just a good tale is what the doctor ordered. And personally, I think it's a talent you posess, Glor. When I first got into Untitled, I couldn't find a stopping point. I was always wanting to go a little further, read a little more. THAT is a sign of a good storyteller. To me at least. So as many underlying themes there may be or symbolism imbedded, it means pretty much squat without a good storyteller, because frankly, people have to WANT to read it, right? So don't get discouraged. There will always be people who miss out on some of the symbolism.

Besides, its easier to believe that someone else up there will protect and guide us.

Amen to that! I'd rather have an uplifting view of life, than one that makes me think, "gee, life really sucks." Call it delusionary, but hey, I'd rather be stuck in my own happy-world like a Snitter, than bound to the dissappointments of the real world like a Keer.

[Rcawley8]

If you have read my old posts you would realize that I tend to write very flow-of-conciousness, so I apologize for the sometimes confusing structure.


Hmmm... Without a theme what is a story? Without Charactor development, do we actually care about them? Without symbolism are you telling the same story over and over again or are you original? What dictates originality and is it something that you even wish to achieve?

Theme is the message that you are trying to send to the reader. Theme is very important because it gives a story relevence.

Charactors are more than the people who wander around in your story doing stuff. They have to be able to learn and grow as individuals... Start with a sterotype if you must but the charactor has be unique if I am going to care. Example, the recent movie the "Time Machine" I thought it was a lot of pretty images with all the story of a falling car and sterotypes so painful that I could not even muster up the strength to mock it.

Symbolism is more tricky. I like symbolism. I used to catch most of Gloria's symbolism and it was what made her comic unique. Go to http://www.belfry.com and look at all of the webcomics... There is a lot of em, huh. Some last about 6 months, others will last years before the creator grows bored. But the vast majority are kinda repeative:

Kevin and Kell, preachy and pretty straight forward.
Sluggy Freelance, not preachy at all and very good storytelling but all the symbolism of rock.
Penny Arcade, no story.
Real Life, a weak story that really doesnt go anywhere but the title does say it all.
Jack, odd symbolism mixed with a storyline that verges on the pornagraphic but has some very uplifting themes.

My point is that there are a lot of webcomics and you do need something to attract readers... Why "Untitled" over "Sluggy Freelance" (other than the compelling title.) For me it was because of Symbolism. I could see that Gloria was really going somewhere with this and I enjoyed it.

Of course you don't need symbolism. Hell you dont need theme, charactors, or even a plot. Read Ray Bradbury, he did fine without these things. Maybe the elements are more like spices.

Mix one good story with:
1 tsp. of plot hook
2 cups of theme
2 cups of conflict
3 tbs. of charactor motivation and development
1 tsp. of symbolism.

Churn until done.

and voila' wee hav a fine story for vou today.

That just happens to be my opinion.

Moving to Sac. to those who care.

[Rcawley8]

That`s what explained to me why we`ve always talked about books in school that were written by people long dead already. Noone could proove the teacher that way that he`s telling us a lot of stupidity and that the author wanted to say something completely different - or that the author didn`t want to say anything with it at all, and just tells a story.

I hated it when teachers asked us to come up with a thesis about a book, but use OTHER author's critiques/thesis's to support or explain ours. What? Where' not aloud to come up with an original idea of our own? I can see support, but what if you come up with something that no one else has thought of? Something no one's written anything about that could be of any use to include in your essay/critical analysis?

So TDS, you are saying that just because someone is dead, they don't have anything useful to say.

Wait, I will get back to that.

Joe, I had a similar experience. She (or he) is having you analyze a story (duh) and develop a critique that someone else has done. I also had an instructor at College who was also telling us how we should write and told me that I could go nowhere writing Science Fiction. Truthbetold, I was just in that class for my own amusement and not so that she can impress me with her credentials (a topic dear to her heart.) When I told her of my viewpoints and how much I disagreed with her she asked if I had ever written for one of the finest storytellers in Hollywood and if my script had ever been on TV.
(I did not realize that Aaron Spelling was a great storyteller and that Models Inc. (a spin off of 90210) was great TV.)

Now on to the meat of my ramble that I call a post. Maybe, Joe, you are over reacting and your teacher would accept a critque that you did that included how you agreed or disagreed with the other critque. (Because otherwise you are not doing work but regurgitating information.)

On to TDS, alot of what dead people have to say does have value today. Heck, a lot of Science Fiction is becoming Science Fact. OK, it is not the exact same details as the author envisioned, sure, but the ideas are there, and many social issues that have to be dealt with today stem from long ago, and there were some smart poeple in the past who wrote down their opinions about these things. What better way to talk about social issues but through stories?

If it was illegal, for example, to disagree with the kings decisions, your story could be about an emperor his policies (of course, that does not always protect you, people arent that dumb but I am making a point.)

[ZOMBIE USER 10925]

I dunno... I put a lot of REALLY subtle aymbolism and stuff into the comic, and very few people notice it... that's why recently I've made all my hidden themes pretty obvious. And why my writing style has gone downhill.

Downhill? no! You've been doing this for about 3 years and haven't resorted to time travel. The characters are still evolving, growing, staying along believable paths you set in the beginning.

And, to top it off, we aren't inundated with a 4-page cast list like one furry comic I read.


rcawley8, I think you missed one thing here, Art.
It's one of the factors I consider with webcomics. A comic may have plot, humor, and story, but if the art is a 3-year old's scrawling, it won't hold my attention as long as something as fine as Untitled. Even Unicorn & Butterfly was unique in its media!

[Gloria]

Another thing.... sometimes other people will find symbolism in a person's work that wasn't necessarily intentional... Actually, I find things like this in my OWN stuff that I didn't realize were there, or that didn't necessarily have the same meaning at the time I put them there.

Of course, I've forgotten what most of them are.d :)

[Rcawley8]

rcawley8, I think you missed one thing here, Art.
It's one of the factors I consider with webcomics. A comic may have plot, humor, and story, but if the art is a 3-year old's scrawling, it won't hold my attention as long as something as fine as Untitled. Even Unicorn & Butterfly was unique in its media!

I certainly would not debate you on that, but I hardly missed it. I thought that would be self-evident .
Art is very important, I have seen a few that looked like they would have great stories, but the art.. She looka like, as you say, a hyperactive, riddelin depraved toddler let loose with his mothers lipstick and, myfriend, it is no good.

Ahem, sorry, played too much GTA3.

Fernando Martinez can give YOU... a new beginning.

[ZOMBIE USER 10068]

Amen to that! I'd rather have an uplifting view of life, than one that makes me think, "gee, life really sucks." Call it delusionary, but hey, I'd rather be stuck in my own happy-world like a Snitter, than bound to the dissappointments of the real world like a Keer.

What?! You mean that ya don't want to join me and Keer in the occational depressive belief that we are truly alone in a cold, brutal and godless universe? *L*

Penny Arcade, no story.

Ya, but they make with the funny. Without fail.

[W.M.Y.L.G. Joe]

Even though I know I have to think like this if I hope to make good movies some day, one thing I will always try to keep in mind is TO ENJOY MYSELF. Sure everything that's been said here is important to literature and storytelling in any form, but don't become an english teacher about it! Just appreciate the story for what it is: entertainment! Okay, I'm done here.

[Rcawley8]

Yes, yes they do. Wang.


From our abortive attempt in making an amatuer movie is dont try to be too "arty" and having fun is the most important thing; however, once you make the big time and have a nice fat budget. People are going to expect more from ya.

[W.M.Y.L.G. Joe]

Yes they will. But if I have a nice fat budget, I can go and make my own skatevideos finally.

[Gloria]

Okay, I realize the topic has gone away from the topic of comics, but I'm the big shot cartoonist here, so I'm allowed to take liberties. ;)

An added dimension in the writing of comics, as opposed to stories or graphic novels, is the gag.... Untitled! doesn't really have the greatest jokes, but I've always tried to at least have some kind of punchline... probably just to keep things from getting too boring or serious, as much as anything. The thing is, I'm not very good at humour. The best I can usually manage is a cheap bit of sarcasm or irony, which has been done to death in comics already. For the sake of originality, therefore, there are certain obscure little running gags, little bits of recurring irony and such....

Okay, the above paragraph actually made some kind of sense 2 hours ago when I thought of it, but now it's gibberish. please disregard....

[ZOMBIE USER 10925]

Your universe's nature is pretty serious, not like Looney Toons'. Characters can't keep walking in the "normal" universe and not fall.


You have interesting characters who don't all have the knowledge you do. Some are na

[TwoDifferentSox]

Okay, the above paragraph actually made some kind of sense 2 hours ago when I thought of it, but now it's gibberish. please disregard....

Oh, don`t worry, it does make sense. To me, at least.
And what you`re saying actually is, that Untitled is not so much of a one-gag-a-day comic, but is more epic, with *gasp* content!
Not all comics got that, and for sure even more not that well covered.
A reason why I like Untitled, even when I`m not always agreeing completely with the morale of the story, I like them, yepyep.
It also makes the characters more in-depth and likeable, doesn`t it?

[Gloria]

Yes. It helps keep Twapa from REALLY seeming like a heartless monster. ;)