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It must be really comforting to have a mom that's so open-minded. I hope one day I can meet you guys (and your awesome Mom!)

Keep up the great work, Kat! Thank you for giving me such great reading and thought material, and for being a good friend.

And Shirlee, YOU keep up the awesome work too! Your stuff on VCL rocks, and I STILL love the pic you did for me! You're a great friend.

teekachu wrote:It must be really comforting to have a mom that's so open-minded. I hope one day I can meet you guys (and your awesome Mom!)

Keep up the great work, Kat! Thank you for giving me such great reading and thought material, and for being a good friend.

And Shirlee, YOU keep up the awesome work too! Your stuff on VCL rocks, and I STILL love the pic you did for me! You're a great friend.

Man, I wish she'd been my mom iRL - I'd have gone through a LOT less
depression in my life if she had been ^_^

And wow... you guys are going to be moving to the Spokane WA area,
right? If we relocate there too, you'll defintely get the chance to meet
Shirlee's mom and us too! ^______^

Gosh... It seems unreal that a mom would be that ultimately cool, especially thinking about how uptight my own mother is with things. You're one lucky cat, no doubt about it.

It is nice to see someone without Puritan views on everything.

But it would be nice to talk to Shirlee's mom or something to find out how she avoided such ideas. Given an estimation of her being born from the late 40s to the mid fifties, to maybe even the early 60s, I'm not sure.

But that was quite a bit of, quote unquote, "Moral indotrination" she had to over come or avoid...

Gildedtongue wrote:It is nice to see someone without Puritan views on everything.

But it would be nice to talk to Shirlee's mom or something to find out how she avoided such ideas. Given an estimation of her being born from the late 40s to the mid fifties, to maybe even the early 60s, I'm not sure.

But that was quite a bit of, quote unquote, "Moral indotrination" she had to over come or avoid...

Shirlee's mom was the only daughter of a military couple (I hesitiate to say "Army brat" but the description is not too far off) and she remembers seeing a lot of places in the world as she grew up. The social mores that are overwhelming in our part of the world don't exist in other countries,
and even though her upbringing was strict in a lot of ways, she was
encouraged to use her own judgement about what really constituted right
and wrong. She told me about some of the places her father was stationed
at where life was lived with a lot less pressure, and the natives were much
less inhibited than people in the US. That probably has a good deal to do
with it. But really, she's just a very wonderful person who loves her
daughter (and me too, now ^_^)

KatEllis wrote:Shirlee's mom was the only daughter of a military couple (I hesitiate to say "Army brat" but the description is not too far off) and she remembers seeing a lot of places in the world as she grew up. ...

Cosmopolitanism beats provincialism every single time

This is why anthropology is such a fun course of study... the ways in which some human cultures differ from our own is amazing, and it really gives the lie to those who would believe that our society is the pinnacle of civilization. (It's rather amusing to imagine what you would get if you cherry-picked the best attributes of all the societies/cultures that have been studied, into a new one comprising the finest that human experience has to offer.)

I like this little vignette because, in many ways, it's like one of those mind-blowing anthropological studies. It makes you so very conscious of where the walls of the box are---and this, often more than anything else, gives you the power to think outside it.

Ahh, thanks, KatEllis, wasn't putting her down or anything, just very curious at how people think and how people got to thinking as such.

It's odd, in England you can have a woman bare chested on prime time television and no one would care or cover their kid's eyes. You have half a millisecond of what may or may not be a nipple here in the United States, and people are up in arms.

Back when we were kids, we've always been told that the Pilgrims that went to America on the Mayflower left because of Religious persecution... they never did say WHO was doing the persecuting.

Things are definately changing in America, though... Many TV shows now seem to try to push the limits... to see how much they can get away with.

Oh, that Janet Jackson thing was about a year ago, wasn't it? Seems like it was only yesterday. How time flies...

skunk wrote: I like this little vignette because, in many ways, it's like one of those mind-blowing anthropological studies. It makes you so very conscious of where the walls of the box are---and this, often more than anything else, gives you the power to think outside it.

It's a major reason that I wanted to do this story. I do regard myself as a
very lucky person for knowing Shirlee's mother, and the readers get to
see one of the biggest reasons why.

Gildedtongue wrote:
Ahh, thanks, KatEllis, wasn't putting her down or anything, just very curious at how people think and how people got to thinking as such.

Oh, I didn't think you were putting her down! She's a marvelous person
and she makes for a marvelous story.

Gildedtongue wrote:
It's odd, in England you can have a woman bare chested on prime time television and no one would care or cover their kid's eyes. You have half a millisecond of what may or may not be a nipple here in the United States, and people are up in arms.

Exactly. It can be quite a enlightening experience to know someone who
is both every bit the warm loving mom that one would expect her to be
and at the same time completely unrepressed and non-straitlaced about
sexuality.

KatEllis wrote:Exactly. It can be quite a enlightening experience to know someone who
is both every bit the warm loving mom that one would expect her to be
and at the same time completely unrepressed and non-straitlaced about
sexuality.

If I may ask... how aware was Shirlee of the latter part, before you came into her life?

(I get the impression that, since meeting you, she's learned quite a bit about her mother as well....)

Celia Vuline wrote:Things are definately changing in America, though... Many TV shows now seem to try to push the limits... to see how much they can get away with.

Oh, that Janet Jackson thing was about a year ago, wasn't it? Seems like it was only yesterday. How time flies...

just about every newspaper had some kind of article about how different
this super bowl was from last year. ^.^

skunk wrote:If I may ask... how aware was Shirlee of the latter part, before you came into her life?

(I get the impression that, since meeting you, she's learned quite a bit about her mother as well....)

well, nothing quite like this ever happened while i was still living with my
mom! but she has always, always been the one i could talk to about
anything. really! anything whatsoever! ^.^ i remember very clearly when
i was just in my teens - i would occasionally do a little too much of... o.o;;

(well, much like right here, although it was before i met richard:)
http://us-p.vclart.net/vcl/Artists/shir ... _alone.jpg

and my mom asked me one day if that was a problem for me! i hadn't
even said anything about it but apparently something gave me away! and
she knew because, as she told me, she did the same thing herself when
she was my age. so, you can tell i've always had a very cool mom! ^.^

shirleemouse wrote: and my mom asked me one day if that was a problem for me! i hadn't
even said anything about it but apparently something gave me away! and
she knew because, as she told me, she did the same thing herself when
she was my age. so, you can tell i've always had a very cool mom! ^.^

Oh, I could never talk to my mother about that sort of thing... I envy your luck. Curses on you people who hoard all the luck from the rest of us .

By the way, Shirlee, I must say that the colouring/shading in your art is absolutely spectacular. I wish I could draw/colour/shade as you can.

shirleemouse wrote:

skunk wrote:If I may ask... how aware was Shirlee of the latter part, before you came into her life?

(I get the impression that, since meeting you, she's learned quite a bit about her mother as well....)

well, nothing quite like this ever happened while i was still living with my
mom! but she has always, always been the one i could talk to about
anything. really! anything whatsoever! ^.^ i remember very clearly when
i was just in my teens - i would occasionally do a little too much of... o.o;;

(well, much like right here, although it was before i met richard:)
http://us-p.vclart.net/vcl/Artists/shir ... _alone.jpg

and my mom asked me one day if that was a problem for me! i hadn't
even said anything about it but apparently something gave me away! and
she knew because, as she told me, she did the same thing herself when
she was my age. so, you can tell i've always had a very cool mom! ^.^

I wish I had that kind of openness! I still feel very tense about just being myself, IRL, with her, and that's considering I take after her in terms of liberalism. Being both strongly sexual (but sadly, not open about it, so for me, dealing with my sexual tension is kept rather private- In part because as attracted as I am to females, I have always thought of them as far more than merely sexual objects, but as people with feelings, so...) and different from the accepted norm (IRL, effeminate male, crossdresser, yet quite straught- I don't even look masxculine even without trying- Makes finding a mate difficult, especially when I can't see beyond a few feet), I know what it's like to be closed up, bottled up inside and utterly helpless.

What the three of you have is beyond the "sexual fantasy" aspect most would think of what's going on, and is something most people dearly wish they had- Family they could be open to, and an honest, unadulterated love that transcends the sex.

The three of you are very lucky people. You and Rich have each other in something that's beyond measure, and add to that, a mother (for Rich, future mother-in-law that is far more "Mom" than his mom ever was or could be) that you are open with and able to share things.

When the three of you are together again, IRL, give yourselves a BIG HUG and thank each other for the sheer blessing each one of you have with another.

You are lucky. Far too many aren't so lucky.

Too bad there are people that, because of that kind of lack of such a happy and lucky life, feel they have to destroy those that do.

Don't ever let them.

Shirlee, you and Richard belong together, and both of you are blessings to each other, and are just as blessed to have your mother.

Never let go, because you have something so special.

And me? Someone, some day, will break through my shell, and maybe I could be lucky, too. But for now, I belong with no-one, and I make no claims of anyone belonging with me. I have no-one in my life, not even in my dreams, but only in old, faded memories that predate my very long presense on the internet, of someone whose life has drifted far away from my life through the years so there is no chance.

I could use a new beginning, a new hope....

Shine on, Kat and mouse, and be the shining beacon for the rest of us who could only dream of what you have.

(Oh, if you could only be cloned!)

Amy. <:3 )~~8~
(Sorry for the long posts- Just having another one of those days.)

And for what it's worth, shirlee- The sentiment in the pic... Yes, being alone sucks!

And I really only have myself to blame, because I'm too scared, more often than not, to open up, and never really had a chance to.

And, also- Again, for what it's worth- It's OK to masturbate. You shouldn't ever have to feel ashamed of enjoying yourself. It's OK to fantasise. And above all, it's a stress reliever. But it is no substitute, as I'm sure you already know. However, it also doesn't mean you have to stop touching yourself BECAUSE you have Rich. Just enjoy it. Enjoy it with him (as I think you have).

It's good to have an understanding mom as you have.

Amy. <:3 )~~8~
(Just a mouse in a corner...)

One last one for the night, if I may...

Shirlee, can I ask a stupid question?

Are you left-pawed?

Looks like it from the pic.....

Why do I ask? I am.

Amy. <:3 )~~8~
(Leftie mousie...)

Celia Vuline wrote:Oh, I could never talk to my mother about that sort of thing... I envy your luck. Curses on you people who hoard all the luck from the rest of us .

eeep! please don't envy us! ^.^ I know my mom is cool, but my kat
had a mother who was just the exact opposite. she still doesn't approve
of us.

(actually, it's me she doesn't like. i think she doesn't want her son to be
happy. -.-)

but yes, my mom's always been someone who i could trust and who
never let me act out of ignorance. as soon as i was old enough to
know about things like pregnancy and menstrual cycles, mom would
teach me everything i needed to know. ^.^

Celia Vuline wrote:By the way, Shirlee, I must say that the colouring/shading in your art is absolutely spectacular. I wish I could draw/colour/shade as you can.

i really should get back into the practice of hand-coloring my art!
doggone computers make it too simple... ^.^

AmyStereo wrote:Shirlee, you and Richard belong together, and both of you are blessings to each other, and are just as blessed to have your mother.

Never let go, because you have something so special.

oh, don't worry. my kat's a keeper! ^.^

AmyStereo wrote:One last one for the night, if I may...

Shirlee, can I ask a stupid question?

Are you left-pawed?

actually, i'm somewhat ambidextrous! i draw with my right paw but
i dial my phone, operate the vcr remote and brush my teeth with
my left! i've done that ever since i was little. for awhile i even tried
to draw with my left, but i seem to be able to use my right more
effectively for that. ^.^

shirleemouse wrote:

AmyStereo wrote:One last one for the night, if I may...

Shirlee, can I ask a stupid question?

Are you left-pawed?

actually, i'm somewhat ambidextrous! i draw with my right paw but
i dial my phone, operate the vcr remote and brush my teeth with
my left! i've done that ever since i was little. for awhile i even tried
to draw with my left, but i seem to be able to use my right more
effectively for that. ^.^

Well, the dominance of one hand over the other varies from person to person- In my case, I'm almost severely leftpawed, but yes, you are left-dominant. It's an easy thing to tell, usually. For many, wearing a watch is usually on the opposite wrist. And then there's "dialing"... Pleasuring one's self just doesn't work as well with the opposite hand.

And might I say, you have a unique, but very pleasurable style of drawing- Always been a treat since you first came onto VCL, all the way to your strip here on Keenspace.

Tasty fingers and happy squeeks, mousie...

Amy. <:3 )~~8~