New Crew

Postby SteveB on Mon Apr 01, 2002 2:03 pm

I was running down all the people who have no better claim (or not much better) than Stu, and I realized that there is something wonky about EVERY ONE of the new members, in terms of their fandom status. The only exception was blackmailed into joining.

Harry: he's the exception, of course, apparently a First Fandom guy (from the license plate reference and apparent age), but one who's turned his back on organized fandom and had to be blackmailed by Rikk into joining the club.

Jackie: She's an actress more than a fan, she's there because role playing is like acting and she's got a big huge crush on Will.

Tim the Fanboy: OK, I guess he's a real fan, like Harry, but that's not why he's a member. That is, he didn't join the skiffy club because he's a sf/fantasy fan, he joined the skiffy club because he's a fan of the skiffy club. He got into Harvard, but decided to go to Bilderberg (sp?) just so he could rub shoulders with Rikk and Will and especially The Great Tim Mitts.

Meighan: Interesting that non of the Stu-haters have noticed her much more subtle but nonetheless self-serving manipulations. Or, for that matter, her scornful attitude toward the other skiffies. Stu has contempt for the others? At her first meeting, during her introduction, she said she was "just busy," and a thought balloon said "Busier than you guys, I'd wager, no offense." Only people who know they're being offense ever say "No offense."

Stu: Oh, no, you're not going to get me to open that can of worms again. See the other thread.

Steve Bolhafner
SteveB
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO, USA

Postby Maccabee on Mon Apr 01, 2002 2:36 pm

Jackie told Will right off that she was a fan of Doctor Why, Blue Dwarf (or whatever verkakte color we picked), and Bleak's 7.

Meighan is a longtime member of the SCA, and there tends to be a lot of cross-membership in those two groups. She's also a friend of Kath's.

Just for the record.

Maccabee
Risus est telum ultimum contra tyrranidem. Nullus dictator exercitibus totiis ridiculem vulgi longe resistere potest.
Maccabee
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 683
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
Location: Portsmouth, VA, United States

Postby Tom the Fanboy on Mon Apr 01, 2002 2:48 pm

Hmmm.... No defense from Maccabee for tim the Fanboy or Stu. Hmmmmm..... Don't start wish.
Tom the Fanboy
Enthusiasm over Accuracy!

"You should totally put that in your signature Tom. You drain 1d10 investigators per round." -Dustman
User avatar
Tom the Fanboy
Cartoon Hero
 
Posts: 2250
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
Location: Beaverton, OR, USA

Postby SteveB on Mon Apr 01, 2002 3:11 pm

On 2002-04-01 14:36, Maccabee wrote:
Jackie told Will right off that she was a fan of Doctor Why, Blue Dwarf (or whatever verkakte color we picked), and Bleak's 7.


Yep. I missed that (Jackie got introduced earlier than the others; I was starting with the "Start this Storyline from the beginning" link). I still say she's mainly there because she wants to be close to Will, just like Stu originally joined to get close to her.

Meighan is a longtime member of the SCA, and there tends to be a lot of cross-membership in those two groups. She's also a friend of Kath's.


Oooh, I'm MUCH more guilty on this one, since I quoted the same panel that says "with SCA." Mea culpa. That's certainly fannish.

On the other hand, while naturally I can't find it now, I'm almost positive that she said something (to Kath?) about using the skiffy club to beef up the "interests" part of her resume, or something like that, and she does definitely think scornful thoughts about her fellow skiffies. Her motives are not pure. Not that anyone's ever are.

"If you have an interest in any of these things, you belong here. we're an accepting bunch," said Rikk. And they all pass. Even Stu.

I probably overstated the case as to whether or not they were "real" fans, but I still say the new group all have reasons other than being fans of sf/fantasy/role playing/whatever for being in the club. And in fact for each of them I believe the other reason is the more important one.

Steve Bolhafner
SteveB
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO, USA

Postby KingLeon on Mon Apr 01, 2002 4:01 pm

I have to wonder... Jackie isn't British... No wonder Will likes her... it's like she's playing one enormous role... That of a Brit.

Anyway, connections to scifi itself don't seem exactly neccessary...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: KingLeon on 2002-04-01 16:02 ]</font>
User avatar
KingLeon
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 221
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
Location: Tropical-Heat Buffalo

Postby Meganeguard on Mon Apr 01, 2002 6:23 pm

Meighan made that statement on this page
http://www.faans.com/d/20011119.html
Meganeguard
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 4:00 pm

Postby Zippthorn on Mon Apr 01, 2002 7:18 pm

<NONE of the new members are "real fans"!>


. . .

This is a club.

These are people who got together to hang out with like-minded people to share interests with others who share their interests.

Once you get past the "fan" stuff, you get into the real reason people start clubs: To Hang Out With People They Like.

Zippthorn
--
I don't want genital herpes to interfere with *my* social life.<P><A HREF="http://delinquents.keenspace.com/d/20010703.html" TARGET=_blank>Bitches 'n hoes, bitches 'n hoes</A><P><A HREF="http://sinner.keenspace.com/" TARGET=_blank>SINNER (Coming so
Zippthorn
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm

Postby RalphP on Mon Apr 01, 2002 7:40 pm

On 2002-04-01 14:03, SteveB wrote:
I was running down all the people who have no better claim (or not much better) than Stu, and I realized that there is something wonky about EVERY ONE of the new members, in terms of their fandom status. The only exception was blackmailed into joining.

Meighan: Interesting that non of the Stu-haters have noticed her much more subtle but nonetheless self-serving manipulations. Or, for that matter, her scornful attitude toward the other skiffies. Stu has contempt for the others? At her first meeting, during her introduction, she said she was "just busy," and a thought balloon said "Busier than you guys, I'd wager, no offense." Only people who know they're being offense ever say "No offense."

Steve Bolhafner



WAS that her first meeting? Consider http://www.faans.com/d/20000613.html - where I was first aware of Meighan (yes, that's her - follow the story line down some, she walks Shanna home after the spiked drinks Kath fed her (Shanna) got Shanna snookered.

In any case, her first meeting (that is recorded) with Rikk wasn't exactly the best meeting either could have had ...

RwP
RalphP
Newbie
 
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
Location: Elm Grove,LA,USA

Postby SteveB on Mon Apr 01, 2002 8:05 pm

On 2002-04-01 19:40, RalphP wrote:
WAS that her first meeting? Consider http://www.faans.com/d/20000613.html - where I was first aware of Meighan (yes, that's her - follow the story line down some, she walks Shanna home after the spiked drinks Kath fed her (Shanna) got Shanna snookered.



Wow! I'd forgotten all about that. Maybe I shouldn't even be counting Meighan with the newbies.

That does it. I just finished rereading from the "Start at the beginning of this storyline" and it's just not enough. I'm going to have to read the whole thing over again. . .

Steve Bolhafner
SteveB
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO, USA

Postby Meganeguard on Mon Apr 01, 2002 8:22 pm

I guess I just never considered her part of the club at first. I thought of her more as a friend ohf Katherine's and not a member of the club
Meganeguard
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 4:00 pm

Postby Ray Radlein on Mon Apr 01, 2002 10:56 pm

On 2002-04-01 14:03, SteveB wrote:
I was running down all the people who have no better claim (or not much better) than Stu, and I realized that there is something wonky about EVERY ONE of the new members, in terms of their fandom status. The only exception was blackmailed into joining.

Harry: he's the exception, of course, apparently a First Fandom guy (from the license plate reference and apparent age), but one who's turned his back on organized fandom and had to be blackmailed by Rikk into joining the club.


Do we know that he was not still involved with organized Fandom at all? All we really know is that he wasn't part of the Billberg U. SF Club. For all we know, he could still be an active member of, say, WSFA; or he could be active in fanzine fandom (which is, after all, the root territory of First Fandom); or he could be a full-time APAhack. I can easily see him as the OE of an APAZine whose members are all mostly his own age, for instance.

Tim the Fanboy: OK, I guess he's a real fan, like Harry, but that's not why he's a member. That is, he didn't join the skiffy club because he's a sf/fantasy fan, he joined the skiffy club because he's a fan of the skiffy club.


But that's also a quite traditional part of fandom. Some of the great giants of Fandom past were much more interested in Fandom itself than in the SF that was the nominal object of that fandom.


Which reminds me: I have seen a lot of people saying that Alisin isn't really a fan, and I can't for the life of me figure it out. We first saw her at a convention (heck, she's standing right next to T!); we've seen her reading comics and LARPing (albeit badly); she even has erotic Star Trek dreams!

Maybe she's not as fannish as Rikk, but then, who is?

It's a fuzzy thing, of course. To pick an example, there's my mother. She has probably been to at least twice as many cons as I have. The first time I ever met Jeff Smith, she was with me, and it turned out that she had known him for several years already, since back when he was desperately trying to attract an audience for Bone, which was then at something like issue #3 or so. When she found out that David Cherry (prominent SF artist, and C. J. Cherryh's brother) had never met Peter David, she ran off immediately to correct that oversight. She seems at time to know everybody. Is she a fan?

On the other hand, she has almost certainly never read an SF novel; she doesn't read comics; she doesn't watch SF movies; and she only watches TV SF if she's watching along with someone else who was watching it. Is she a fan?

On the gripping hand, she has RPG'ed before.

Oh well. I think there was a point to this message once, but I canna' remember it now ae all. :grin:



_________________

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Strom Thurmond Congress wagh'nagl fhtagn.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ray Radlein on 2002-04-01 23:37 ]</font>
User avatar
Ray Radlein
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2002 4:00 pm
Location: Atlanta

Postby Catz Bartlett on Mon Apr 01, 2002 11:29 pm

On 2002-04-01 14:36, Maccabee wrote:
Jackie told Will right off that she was a fan of Doctor Why, Blue Dwarf (or whatever verkakte color we picked), and Bleak's 7.


Pink. It was Pink Dwarf. I'm too lazy to find the exact quote, though... -_-;;
Catz Bartlett, CI
Order of the Knights of Jubal<P>"Hello, Sydney..." "Hey, Scream-guy, this's Clarice. Wrong movie, doofus."
Catz Bartlett
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 134
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm

Postby SteveB on Tue Apr 02, 2002 7:08 am

On 2002-04-01 22:56, Ray Radlein wrote:
It's a fuzzy thing, of course. To pick an example, there's my mother. She has probably been to at least twice as many cons as I have. The first time I ever met Jeff Smith, she was with me, and it turned out that she had known him for several years already, since back when he was desperately trying to attract an audience for Bone, which was then at something like issue #3 or so. When she found out that David Cherry (prominent SF artist, and C. J. Cherryh's brother) had never met Peter David, she ran off immediately to correct that oversight. She seems at time to know everybody. Is she a fan?

On the other hand, she has almost certainly never read an SF novel; she doesn't read comics; she doesn't watch SF movies; and she only watches TV SF if she's watching along with someone else who was watching it. Is she a fan?


You're quite right, of course. My wife's a good example. We met at a con, but neither of us had ever been to one before, despite the fact that I was over 30 and she was nearly so, and she'd been dragged there by her much more fannish stepmom who thought it would be a good place to meet an intelligent guy (she was right :wink:).

My wife has read a few sf and fantasy novels, and she does like a lot of sf movies & TV shows, but her primary leisure reading genre is True Crime, and she probably watches more true crime TV than she does sf/fantasy. So is she a fan?

On the other hand, she's the Art Show director for a fairly major con (Archon -- we just had our 25th Annual, and the last few have had about 2,000 people attending), and we're both on the Con Committee. So, is she a fan?

As I said, I probably overstated the case about whether or not they were fans, but there does seem to me to be a pretty clear line between the "older" skiffies" and the newer ones (older is in quotes at least partly because of Harry, who is obviously older than any of them, and because I don't think Rikk, Guth, etc. are all that much older than the rest).

Which brings up an interesting point: Will (and many others) are acting like he's practically lusting after his daughter, but how much older is he, really, than Jackie?

Steve Bolhafner
SteveB
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO, USA

Postby Meganeguard on Tue Apr 02, 2002 7:16 am

Jackie is 17, or maybe 18 by this point, Will is only 21, so i really don't see what the problem is with a rrelationship if they want to have one.

As for the Fan thing. I am not a big fan of Science Fiction. I don't read Science Fiction novels. I use to read Fantasy, but hardly ever anymore. I use to watch alot of anime, but don't watch it much anymore. I do love manga, however, and webcomics. I also do play lots of Role playing games: AD&D, Vampire, Star Wars, and self and friend m,and games. So am I a fan or a fringe fan?
Meganeguard
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 4:00 pm

Postby Maccabee on Tue Apr 02, 2002 9:46 am

I'd say of course you're (your wife's, your mother's, etc.) a fan. You don't have to be interested in every aspect of fandom -- I'm not. I hardly ever play video games, I tend to hold recent sf movies and TV shows in contempt, I don't remember the last time I bought a superhero comic (or any print comic not drawn by someone who worked on Fans!! for that matter -- see how special you are, Maritza?). On the other hand I attend cons as often as I can, sometimes costume, watch anime, roleplay, and have run out of space on yet another bookshelf devoted to SF/Fantasy hardcovers.

Put me in a room full of video-gamers and I'll come off looking like a total mundane. Put me on an Alternate History discussion panel and I can avoid looking totally out of place next to real live authors.

It's not Stu's taste in subgenres that caused the clubs reaction, it's his behavior towards other members.

Maccabee
Risus est telum ultimum contra tyrranidem. Nullus dictator exercitibus totiis ridiculem vulgi longe resistere potest.
Maccabee
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 683
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
Location: Portsmouth, VA, United States

Postby Shatteredtower on Tue Apr 02, 2002 10:20 am

On 2002-04-01 19:18, zippthorn wrote:

Once you get past the "fan" stuff, you get into the real reason people start clubs: To Hang Out With People They Like.



I disagree. I didn't join the local chess club because I liked its members - I joined for the chess. Most of the members are fine, but I don't hang out with any of them.

And I'd still go even if they were as bad as the worst offenders at a chess politics site.

Not everybody feels the same way, of course, but sometimes the interest is - and perhaps should be - more important that those with whom you share it.
Shatteredtower
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 201
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Postby SteveB on Tue Apr 02, 2002 10:48 am

On 2002-04-02 10:20, Shatteredtower wrote:
On 2002-04-01 19:18, zippthorn wrote:

Once you get past the "fan" stuff, you get into the real reason people start clubs: To Hang Out With People They Like.



I disagree. I didn't join the local chess club because I liked its members - I joined for the chess. Most of the members are fine, but I don't hang out with any of them.

And I'd still go even if they were as bad as the worst offenders at a chess politics site.

Not everybody feels the same way, of course, but sometimes the interest is - and perhaps should be - more important that those with whom you share it.


Apples and oranges. You can play chess with someone you don't like; you can't play chess with someone who doesn't know how. The purpose of the chess club is to play chess.

Most of the things the skiffy club is dedicated to can be done alone (except roleplaying games, and the club meetings aren't devoted to that). There is a very real sense in which skiffy clubs in general exist to give a sense of belonging to people who feel they don't belong anywhere else.

Which is why I voted for Stu to stay. On the other hand, it is also true that for such a club to succeed, members have to feel comfortable with each other -- even if they don't necessarily like each other. If the level of discomfort gets to high, the club will fall apart, which is a point made by someone else earlier.

Either way, it's a very different thing from a chess club.

Steve Bolhafner
SteveB
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 90
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
Location: St. Louis, MO, USA

Postby Zippthorn on Tue Apr 02, 2002 10:51 am

On 2002-04-02 10:20, Shatteredtower wrote:
On 2002-04-01 19:18, zippthorn wrote:

Once you get past the "fan" stuff, you get into the real reason people start clubs: To Hang Out With People They Like.



I disagree. I didn't join the local chess club because I liked its members - I joined for the chess.


Did you start the club?

Once a club gets started, people who the starters might not hang out with normally join. Then you get to the second reason most people start clubs: to meet new people, most of whom should not be jerks, or they'll get kicked out of the club.

Zippthorn
--
I don't want genital herpes to interfere with *my* social life.<P><A HREF="http://delinquents.keenspace.com/d/20010703.html" TARGET=_blank>Bitches 'n hoes, bitches 'n hoes</A><P><A HREF="http://sinner.keenspace.com/" TARGET=_blank>SINNER (Coming so
Zippthorn
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm

Postby Khavren on Tue Apr 02, 2002 11:40 am

On 2002-04-01 22:56, Ray Radlein wrote:

It's a fuzzy thing, of course. To pick an example, there's my mother. She has probably been to at least twice as many cons as I have. The first time I ever met Jeff Smith, she was with me, and it turned out that she had known him for several years already, since back when he was desperately trying to attract an audience for Bone, which was then at something like issue #3 or so. When she found out that David Cherry (prominent SF artist, and C. J. Cherryh's brother) had never met Peter David, she ran off immediately to correct that oversight. She seems at time to know everybody. Is she a fan?

On the other hand, she has almost certainly never read an SF novel; she doesn't read comics; she doesn't watch SF movies; and she only watches TV SF if she's watching along with someone else who was watching it. Is she a fan?

On the gripping hand, she has RPG'ed before.

Oh well. I think there was a point to this message once, but I canna' remember it now ae all. :grin:



I think the point is that your mom is cool! See if she would enjoy reading the comic and introduce us at cons! Slightly more on topic, I can see Alison starting the same way, just being around people when they get started and ending up being closely connected to famous creators and game masters.
Khavren
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 118
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
Location: Anywhere in the US where I know people

Postby Meganeguard on Tue Apr 02, 2002 1:36 pm

Hello, this deals with liking members of a club. I attened Uganime at the University of Georgia a couple of times, and eveen though i was friends with the President, the librarian, and vice president, we had Japanese classes together, I was completely turned off from the club because of sevarl other members. I mean I enjoy anime, but I don't care to watch anime when every male in the place hoots and hollers every time there is a shot of panties. What point does this make? Well, it means if you are interested in your hobby you might have to make some sacrifices being around morons. Geez, but it seems like Thack's plan: making fans look like idiots. Why did I write this the salt shaker told me to
Meganeguard
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 4:00 pm

Next

 

Return to FANS!



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron