Now this is interesting...

Postby Czhorat on Tue Apr 02, 2002 11:11 am

Shattered Tower,

I'm sorry, but "You're lucky that your wife is dying" is just SUCH an offensive remark that, especially from a member who's already offended just about everyone else. There DOES have to be a line somewhere. I believe that Stu crossed it.

Look at it another way; in front of Alisin, Stu commented on how lucky Rikk was that she is dying.
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Postby Shatteredtower on Tue Apr 02, 2002 1:16 pm

On 2002-04-02 11:11, Czhorat wrote:
Shattered Tower,

I'm sorry, but "You're lucky that your wife is dying" is just SUCH an offensive remark that, especially from a member who's already offended just about everyone else.


Except that was not what was said.

"That lucky bastard! Yew mean he scores every day, an' gets t'be a free man again afore he's twenny-five?"

I see a big difference in what is written and how you interpret it.

There DOES have to be a line somewhere. I believe that Stu crossed it.

Look at it another way; in front of Alisin, Stu commented on how lucky Rikk was that she is dying.


Sure, from that perspective, it's terrible - and it is a terrible thing to say even if that was not the case.

But he did not make that statement with the intention of them hearing it. This was a man reeling from shock. He was asking questions, because this was a new concept to him.

His mind was in a surprisingly open position at that moment - and they closed theirs.

If he'd been a bit more prudent, the remark would only have been heard by its intended audience, Tim. And if anyone could have enlightened him to why that was wrong, it was Tim. Instead, his surprise lead to what was probably a poor choice of words, and nothing more.

(I find it surprising that anyone thinks he's thought this through beyond a fantasy level. If you were to ask him, "Are you saying it would be a good thing if she died?" do you think he'd give a matching answer? I don't - and there's been nothing to indicate to me that he has that callous an attitude towards human life.)

His next comment was defensive, because he really couldn't see why it offended the others. And even then, it was apparent that he wasn't aware that Rikk had heard it.

So it doesn't make the sentiment any more right. Civilized behaviour involves making the party committing a wrong see the error before passing judgment, if at all possible.

No such effort was made.

A friend of mine once said, "Good thing she miscarried," about a woman we knew - which was no less reprehensible a statement. We made him understand that, without threats and without dismissing him from our company. He is a better person for it.

How much smaller we'd have been if we had denied him that! (To be fair, I have been smaller than that before. I've been lucky enough to get to admit it, sometimes, too. I hope Rikk gets that same chance.)

So I have every reason to disagree, even with the statement as (and context in which) you expressed it. It's an unacceptable sentiment, but the reaction to it was more unacceptable.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Shatteredtower on 2002-04-02 13:17 ]</font>
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Postby Shatteredtower on Tue Apr 02, 2002 1:22 pm

On 2002-04-02 04:37, SKJAM! wrote:
Now, what did Stu mean by "hypocrites?"

Did he mean the Fans' tolerance of other viewpoints--as long as those viewpoints don't personally offend them?

Or is Stu still thinking that secretly they agree with him and are just kicking him out because it's "politically incorrect" to say that sort of thing out loud?


My own suspicion is that it's another way of saying, "You think you're better than me, don't you?"

To which some of them - and some of us - would instantly answer, "Yeah." To some, that would actually lend weight to his argument.
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Postby Muttley on Tue Apr 02, 2002 1:55 pm

Czhorat wrote:
I'm sorry, but "You're lucky that your wife is dying" is just SUCH an offensive remark that, especially from a member who's already offended just about everyone else. There DOES have to be a line somewhere. I believe that Stu crossed it.

Look at it another way; in front of Alisin, Stu commented on how lucky Rikk was that she is dying.


Czhorat, I agree with you that Stu's remark is truly offensive, and is impossible to ignore. But look at his expression - he really doesn't believe that he could be causing offence!

Stu's remark is dead on; the club is being hypocritical, in that they are applying to him the very standards that they appear to despise: - voting for their own comfort rather than applying due consideration to all sides. Yes, it is difficult to act dispassionately when fundamental emotions are aroused, but that is when it is most important to remember your principles.

I still say he hasn't been given a fair chance: warn him, tell him what he's done wrong, then vote for his expulsion if he re-offends.

Regards,
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