And the Icy Finger of Death Points To...

SKJAM!
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Post by SKJAM! »

I like to be methodical, so let's look at the list of possible victims, and their probabilities of being killed off (as I see them.)

ALISIN: Very high. She is, after all, terminally ill, and prone to self-destructive behavior. The only thing against it is that she's *too* obvious.

GUTHRIE: Low. He's not the type to put himself in physical danger, and he lasted longer in the General's future. However, the very fact of him being important in the future makes him a possible target.

HARRY: Medium. It's likely he's fought in at least one war before, and it's often the grizzled veteran who buys it in war pictures. Plus, he's the Fan who's had the most life lived, and thus might regret dying least.

JACKIE: Very low. She's obviously a new favorite, and the triangle with Will and Shanna has just begun. About the only thing that could doom her is if she says "I'm too young to die."

KATHERINE: Medium. She's planning to leave the club, and short-timers are always at risk in war and cop films. Also, some of her role could now be filled by Meighan and Jackie.

MEIGHAN: Low. We haven't really gotten into her head yet, and she's another one who seems unlikely to put herself in peril. However, she does have "impulses", and those could doom her.

RIKK: Low. Few series survive the death of the "hero." On the other hand, he is known for getting in way over his combat ability.

RUMY: Medium. Yes, she was alive in "Phantoms," but that was only a possible future. And she's a front-line fighter, which exposes her to danger.

SHANNA: Low. Her place in the Fans as the resident "realist" is unique, and would be difficult to restaff. However, the direct threat to her mother suggests that Shanna is really important.

STU: High. Especially if he suddenly develops heroic tendencies or has an extremely sympathetic moment.

TIM: Medium. First, there's now a second Tim, and when there's two of anything in a comics team, the older one shouldn't start any long novels. Also, there's that "seizure"...(what kind of seizure, Fanboy?)

TIM THE FANBOY: Medium. There's two Tims. And killing the youngest, most wide-eyed member of the Fans would be a shocker.

WILL: Medium. The Frodo thing could have been foreshadowing, and he's another front line fighter.


Any comments?

SKJAM!
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FrustratedPilot
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Post by FrustratedPilot »

You know, I'd set Guth's risk a little higher...maybe about the same as Stu. Last time we saw him, we saw how vulnerable he is in a fight. He's about as vulnerable as Shanna--perhaps even moreso, unless he's somehow built a secret weapon into his holdout slide-rule.

(Proud owner of two slide-rules and an E6B navigation disk calculator...)

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Post by Catz Bartlett »

Way I see it:

Alisin would be just TOO obvious.
Ditto with TimI, now that he's had that seizure...but I could be wrong.
TimII...I dunno.
Rikk I seriously doubt is gonna die, unless we get an alternate version of him or something...
Kath is the kind of person you NEVER think can die...but then again, that's T's way, isn't it?
Rumy...no. just no.

On the whole, my money's on Stu or Katherine dying...(much as I hate to say it) preferably Stu.
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Post by Silversmoke »

with Guth *ahem* gone, Stu might have a chance of staying on, whether Kath likes it or not.. because, "Guth would have wanted it that way".

i can seriously see the boys of the club banding against Katherine to keep a member of Guth's family around to keep him alive. Any objections jackie might voice about Guth's real feelings towards Stu could easily be passed off as her own dislike... i can just see "Shore we tussled now and then, but what cousins don't? Deep down i thought of Guth like my brother, i wish i coulda told him so"

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Post by Berandor »

Stu will die in a heroic fashion.

I hope.

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Post by KingLeon »

Just a point, but you point out for instance that Rumy was alive in the alternate universe... but that universe split (ya know, the trousers of time...) from the 'real' universe a far time ago... that Arlen trial was in the seventies...

Of course, it Tim died, then the club would require some sort of video gamer to even things out on the computer-side of fandom...

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Post by RebLaw »

Rumy's the one... I can see how T planned it now... she loves rikk but doesn't want to interfere between him and alisin, she might end up dying, saving rikk or alisin since she says she wants to help save them, talk about irony there... i mean look here http://www.faans.com/d/20020228.html
anything she can do to save alisin, a vow she made to boy she loves, but what if it costs her her life?

RL



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Post by J. »

Remember, T said (twice) that "AT LEAST" one member of the club won't survive this storyline. We could be looking at multiple casualties.

On the other hand... I can never tell when T's being sarcastic. In the original message he said the impending doom was a "minor story detail." A few lines later he wrote that it hurts to even talk about it. Is he pulling our legs? Are setting ourselves up for some major drama that isn't going to happen?

I love playin' Devil's Advocate.

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Post by Gormenghastly »

I'd say if anything "minor story detail" was an intentional understatement.

As to who's gonna die, I'm for eliminating any of the newer characters right off the bat. One of them dying lacks the same impact on the readers as one of the "old timers" dying, and T seems to go for reader impact.

Of the old timers, my money's on Kath. If she dies Shanna loses her beard, and has to face things she's been avoiding facing, thus propelling the story forward in a direction it's already moving.

Killing Rikk, Rumy, or Will forces various storylines to take a drastic turn in direction, which makes them less likely deaths.

Alisin is an outside chance, but she's a fan favorite, and it really doesn't pay off in the love triangle to kill her this soon. Much better to save it nearer the end and keep the tension up.

Tim, I dunno. He doesn't seem to have a big place in any of the larger stories being told, which perhaps makes him more expendable story-wise.

I'm lumping Guth in with the newer characters because even though he's been around for a while, he's only recently moved from recurring character to a full part of the ensemble.

Of course I've always thought that one mark of a great writer was to give you all the clues you needed to see what would happen, but still leave you guessing wrong. Which of course means that most likely I am completely wrong.

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Post by Roscoe »

I read somewhere that the ideal number of main characters is somewhere near 7 (one of the reasons I didn't like LOTR was the sheer number of characters).

There's Rikk, Tim, Rumi, Alisin, Kath, Will, Shanna, and now Jackie, Harry, Guth, Stu, and Tim the Fanboy.

I'm betting that T's thinking to himself, "I'm at this stage of the story, I've used up most of the material I have about these particular characters, and I have replacements" so I'm guessing that most of the Old Guard (I'm guessing Tim, Rumi, Shanna, possibly Alisin) will bite it, each in dramatic but tastefully underdone ways.
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Post by FlyingFish »

I'm getting this awful feeling that it's going to be Rikk. He's been getting so determined lately that "no one dies on my watch" that I could easily see him sacrificing himself to prevent the loss of anyone else. Actually, I could see him doing that from the moment he became the leader of the club. He considers everyone in the group his resposibility. And T's just evil enough to try it...

Of course, T could also decide to put Rikk through the tragedy of losing someone else. Give the poor guy another crisis of faith, "why am I leading if I can't protect those around me?" moment. In which case it would have a lot more impact on him (and us) if it were one of the other veterans.

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KingLeon
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Post by KingLeon »

The thing about Rikk is that he blames himself for everyone's death... even those two agents, whatisherface and whatishisname, are part of his guilt... and then, he falls in love with a not only self-destructive person, but a person who is already insured to die (although, he didn't know that till later)... The guy fears death. Clara's survival was like someone had broken a rule in his life- a person that is going to die is going to die (well, it's a guideline in alot of people's lives. Everyone else was showing it, too. Try to save someone and you'll end up even more heart broken when they die.) TimtF, the grand miracle worker, (Say! Now HE could be an interesting replacement for Rikk, couldn't he?) realized it when Rikk's weakness with death stopped him from doing his usual (well, for HIM.), charasmatic thing, FIND HOPE IN THE SITUATION. Rikk even considered it a personal failure on his part. And it caused him to instead put himself the other way, 'I need not fear death, we can save people'.

Question is... if someone is meant to die, Rikk will go back to his old fear and weakness, only adhere to it even more strongly. He'll refuse to be president if it's related to any of the Club things; he'll refuse to ever love again if it's Alisin, he'll probably commit suicide if Rumy dies for Alisin (somehow) and passes on the fact that she was always in love with Rikk (Rikk would have seen his friend die, on his responsibility, when his stupidity to see how he affected caused her to sacriface herself for his own lover...).

Yep. I'm running on empty now. Better go write my English essay on Pratchett...

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Post by Tom the Fanboy »

My theory on who is not going to make it past Times of War is that T is going to shock his readers in the most unexpected way possible.

Maccabee will be killed.

Yes that right! T is going to shoot Greg Eatroff in the head and get himself a new editor. I can think of nothing that would impact the Fansverse more than the loss of half his input.

Greg, if you're still reading this. Watch your back.
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Post by Maccabee »

Relax, Tom. I'm better armed than T and a whole lot meaner.

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Post by Rognik »

You know, the more I read this, the more I think it will be Guth. He's been around long enough to get a character outline given, but he's underdeveloped enough to keep storylines intact. Having Stu replace him also seems logical. Of course, it could be many people. I say that it can't be Rikk, Rumi, Shanna and probably not Alisin (obvious, as said before). I'm ready to write the death note for anyone else. I didn't even think about Katherine dying, which is probable.

As for the "what type of seisure, Tim?" question, just what do you mean? Do you want him to identify it as a "petit mal" or "grand mal"? Anyone who's taken enough first aid courses to care for seizures would be able to do that. That had to be what you meant, though, since a seizure is a seizure. So there. :razz:

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Post by Amorph »

I have to wonder if the brain isn't going after technologically inclined fen specifically: Tim has a seizure, then we next see the big brain gazing into a computer lab (Jackie would be an unintended casualty).

With the technologically adept disabled, the remaining fen are at a distinct disadvantage against the General.

Depending on whether the big brain's effects are permanent, we've already lost two (effectively) and possibly three if Tim isn't saved. After them I'd worry about leaders (Rikk) and front-line types (Will, Rumy), and specifically Will now that Shanna's in danger.

The way things are set up it looks like Rikk is going to be forced to choose between tending a dying Alisin and doing battle, which might paralyze him with guilt either way, or fatally divide his attention.

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Post by Jmarquis »

JACKIE: Very low. She's obviously a new favorite, and the triangle with Will and Shanna has just begun. About the only thing that could doom her is if she says "I'm too young to die."

I love how, in comics, "She's the new favorite" is a perfectly legit method to figure out whether or not they're actually going to die.

Course...

Doesn't matter...

If the new favorite DOES die, they're usually brought back to life in extremely ridiculous ways - or they're replaced by their extradimensional selves.
Johnny M.

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Post by Judy »

As for the "what type of seisure, Tim?" question, just what do you mean? Do you want him to identify it as a "petit mal" or "grand mal"? Anyone who's taken enough first aid courses to care for seizures would be able to do that. That had to be what you meant, though, since a seizure is a seizure. So there. :razz:
One can always break them down by etiology: metabolic (e.g. hepatic encephalopathy) vs. structural lesion (e.g. brain tumor) vs. idiopathic (e.g. epilepsy). Not that anyone could tell without a pertinent clinical history, a serum chemistry panel, and a CT scan.

Judy

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Tom the Fanboy
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Post by Tom the Fanboy »

OK, after reading that medical analysis....

....I think I understand what Guth feels like right now.

.........
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Post by Atreyu »

I love how, in comics, "She's the new favorite" is a perfectly legit method to figure out whether or not they're actually going to die.
...
If the new favorite DOES die, they're usually brought back to life in extremely ridiculous ways - or they're replaced by their extradimensional selves.
Not necessarily...
My favorite example of this is JLA #5 (current series)

Tomorrow Woman is introduced, becomes a well-rounded character and an accepted member of the cast, and heroically sacrifices herself all in <i>half an issue.</i>

She appeared twice since. Her one-shot was a separate story that occurred during issue #5, and in her appearance in Hourman she knew she would only live for an hour. She hasn't been seen since, but... she has an action figure! *sigh*

Oh well... what was my point again?

Oh yeah, I was saying that death is sometimes permanent in comics, even with "new fan favorites."

Atreyu out.

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