Episode II

Postby Maccabee on Sun Mar 10, 2002 7:38 pm

I saw the trailer for Attack Of The Clones on FOX tonight, and I have to admit -- it actually looks good. The horrible little twerp is gone, Ewan McGregor has a bit more of an edge to him, and it looks like it'll have more of the darkness that made The Empire Strikes Back the best of the original trilogy. For the first time since seeing Episode I, I'm genuinely looking forward to a Star Wars movie.

Party at my place opening night!! Skiffy people, you know the drill.

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Postby Alisin on Mon Mar 11, 2002 5:04 am

Honestly, AotC sounds like a really bad movie. Lucas was going to put n*sync in there, fer cryin' out loud!

Anyways, i'll go see it once, as I'm a <b>big</b> fan, but that's it... unless i get a good surprise.
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Postby Shatteredtower on Mon Mar 11, 2002 5:12 am

Well, yeah, but only long enough for them to rush out and die.

"Of course your precious boy band can appear in my movie, my children."

(Maniacal laughter)

"Revenge is mine! Oh, wait, I'm not supposed to use the word 'revenge.' Hmmm... ah, who cares?"
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Postby Nabiki_neumann on Mon Mar 11, 2002 2:33 pm

I don't know. I feel compelled to see it, whilst at the same time I am so totally repulsed by the cheesy b-movie title. At least 'The Phantom Menace' could have been some freaky type communist conspiracy movie (based on the title) and there was in fact a conspiracy and menace and all that. Okay yeah there'll be clones and attacks in this movie, but couldn't they have come up with something with a little more. . . Dignity or something for heaven's sake? Oh well I didn't see JarJar in the trailor (or did I just repress him?).

Oh, yeah, I didn't _Loathe_ the teeny Anikin. But I did wanna smack Yoda in his scene with him. DUH of course you sense MUCH FEAR! You're a freaky muppet dude and kiddo there's never been off of Hicksville (aka Tatooine). Also How bloody young do they have to be? "Sorry ma'am your child is no longer a fetus he's too old to begin using the force." okay 'nuff said.
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Postby Bushipunk on Mon Mar 11, 2002 8:41 pm

I just watched the most recent trailer... It looks alright. Uneven, like TPM, with some pretty cool parts and some pretty stupid stuff... I'll say that Christian Haydensen (or however his name is spelled) looks like a better actor in this one than he did in the more romance-focused one...

But all this is unimportant. It has Christopher Lee (Saruman in LotR, for those who didn't follow his earlier work) in it! I'll go see it, even though I don't much care for most of the trailer, even though I thought TPM was lame, even if N*Sync had been in it. He only has one line in the trailer, but he delivers it with more power than was in all of TPM combined...

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Postby Catz Bartlett on Tue Mar 12, 2002 9:32 am

I missed the trailer, myself...too bad for me -_-;;

AotC sounds like a dumb title without a doubt - why not just call it "Clone Wars"? That's what it's about, after all - but I'll give the movie a chance. At least the blond-haired freak isn't in it...

BTW, hopefully said freak will make a LITTLE better performance in the Ender's Game movie, which should come out in a year or so...

And Spider-Man is back on track! w00t!! I was afraid they were going to cancel it after 9/11...and it really stinks that trailer with the giant web 'twixt the Towers was COOL...
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Postby Zippthorn on Tue Mar 12, 2002 11:02 am

All I'm going to say about it (I could say a lot, most of it good, but all I *am* going to say is):

Aww . . . ain't dey cute? They so cuuute.

Zippthorn



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: zippthorn on 2002-03-12 11:05 ]</font>
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Postby Maccabee on Tue Mar 12, 2002 2:39 pm

On 2002-03-12 11:02, zippthorn wrote:
All I'm going to say about it (I could say a lot, most of it good, but all I *am* going to say is):

Aww . . . ain't dey cute? They so cuuute.

Zippthorn


So, N'Sync is in the movie after all. :wink:

Come on, can't you see those little larval people as a boy-band?

On to more serious matters: The Ender's Game movie.

On the one hand: about fucking time, people! This was a fantastic book, and the frequent combat scenes (I'm including the 3-D Zero-G lazer-tag, of course) lend themselves very well to screen treatment. I've wanted someone to take on this project ever since I read the book back in the '80s.

One the other hand: this is going to suck. Ender ages something like eight years during the main course of the story. So of course do the other child characters. Some are introduced later, but we're still talking a couple-three years for characters like Bean. There just aren't enough gifted child actors who look enough like each other in Hollywood to pull this off effectively. Also, the child nudity, which was completely appropriate and important to the story in the book, would be too disturbing for words onscreen. They'll have to cut all that, and that means changing some very important scenes in the book.

This should be done as an animated film. Not necessarily in anime style, but with anime's adult sensibility. The work must be treated with respect, and I don't see a studio like Disney doing that. Maybe Dreamworks could, if they'd stop trying to ape Disney so much, or Ralph Bakshi if he could get the backing and the budget...

I'll go see it, but (as with The Bicentennial Man I expect to walk out of the theater bitching about how thoroughly they ruined it.

Maccabee,
who's going to have nightmares about Kevin Costner trying to play Ender Wiggin now.
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Postby Vitriol on Tue Mar 12, 2002 4:21 pm

Mm, I think that a live-action film could potentially have more impact; I can see in my mind's eye ranks of small children standing beside grey steel walls, looking pale and insignificant.

My feeling is that they'll up the ages of the characters significantly, which will of course destroy much of the impact. It's difficult to imagine they'll show Ender doing everything he does otherwise, though.

They'll probably also scale down the role his siblings play; too much to explain about the world overview otherwise, too much distraction from Ender.

This could potentially be one of the greatest movies of all time, but I get the feeling that they'll have real problems sticking to the book without bringing down the censors and alienating much of the population.

edit: Then again, if the studios note how succesful Harry Potter was by simply sticking to the book as far as possible, and if Card manages to have a hand in the scripting, something of the original may survive.

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Postby Zippthorn on Tue Mar 12, 2002 5:43 pm

http://www.angelfire.com/mo/Wiggin/Ender.html

Unofficial Ender's Game The Movie

http://www.frescopictures.com/movies/ender/

Official Ender's Game The Movie

Zippthorn; in case anyone's interested . . .
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Postby Ray Radlein on Tue Mar 12, 2002 10:52 pm

On 2002-03-12 09:32, Catz Bartlett wrote:
AotC sounds like a dumb title without a doubt - why not just call it "Clone Wars"?


While I am also of the camp which feels that Attack of the Clones is a cheesy 40's B-Movie-like title, it should be noted that The Empire Strikes Back is, really, also a cheesy, 40's, B-Movie-like title (as would Revenge of the Jedi have been).
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Postby Khavren on Wed Mar 13, 2002 6:59 am

On 2002-03-12 22:52, Ray Radlein wrote:
On 2002-03-12 09:32, Catz Bartlett wrote:
AotC sounds like a dumb title without a doubt - why not just call it "Clone Wars"?


While I am also of the camp which feels that Attack of the Clones is a cheesy 40's B-Movie-like title, it should be noted that The Empire Strikes Back is, really, also a cheesy, 40's, B-Movie-like title (as would Revenge of the Jedi have been).




This is true, but as opposed to Attack of the Clones or other standered cheesy 40's, b-movie titles, Empire had an unusual feel. Empire Strikes back inplied that the bad guys were going to be dominating and possibly winning, an unusual propostion after the glorius victory of episode 4. Revenge of the Jedi would have been equally good as revenge isn't something good guys get to have usually, so it also has that level of fracture in the pop culture expectation.
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Postby Tom the Fanboy on Wed Mar 13, 2002 9:43 am

Attack of the clones brought me down with the name at first but then I remembered the whole point of Star Wars is to play off of the old western and sci-fi serials (not series philistines!) that Lucas watched as a kid. The first episode of those things is quick and fun and sloppy to get as many people into it as possible, the later ones get more involved dramatically and introduce more characters and more drawn out storylines.

I'm looking forward to the movie because it will be more like Empire in a lot of ways besides the romantic interest. It'll have vast (they're clones after all) armies and more varied space battles. Even better, you never know who might die and end up being cloned for Episode 3!

As far as the N*Sync thing goes I don't see what the problem is. Lucas was doing a favor for his daughters (and the band in my opinion) by letting them play extras. No speaking, no SINGING, and being jammed into a cgi mob and replicated hundreds of times through a battlefield. As far as I'm concerned Lucas could've put anyone into those scenes. Now if there was a Jedi Master Disco scene with N*Sync using the Force during their concert then I'd be just a tad pissed.

[edit]
Oh, I forgot the main thing that made me want to post here.
Greg said the "F-word".
Oooooh, he must be emphatic!


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Postby Maccabee on Wed Mar 13, 2002 11:13 am

On 2002-03-13 09:43, Tom the Fanboy wrote:

As far as the N*Sync thing goes I don't see what the problem is. Lucas was doing a favor for his daughters (and the band in my opinion) by letting them play extras. No speaking, no SINGING, and being jammed into a cgi mob and replicated hundreds of times through a battlefield. As far as I'm concerned Lucas could've put anyone into those scenes. Now if there was a Jedi Master Disco scene with N*Sync using the Force during their concert then I'd be just a tad pissed.

[edit]
Oh, I forgot the main thing that made me want to post here.
Greg said the "F-word".
Oooooh, he must be emphatic!



1) Cloning N*Sync? Now I really will have nightmares.

2) They did the Jedi disco thing on SNL when the boy-band rumors started flying.

3) I'm always emphatic.
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Postby KingLeon on Wed Mar 13, 2002 11:59 am

I ain't seen the trailer for Attack of the Clones yet, but at the moment, I'm looking forward to Jedi Outcast, the PC game...
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Postby Komodo on Thu Mar 14, 2002 11:37 pm

A friend of mine wrote the following. Warning. Not for the kids in the audience. You were warned.

***********
Movie Trailer...

Come one, come all(and just to clarify for Art Bibar,
I said 'come' not 'cum'. Please note the
clarification.), and see 'Star Wars: Episode II'!
It should be noted that, due to the lack of original
plot ideas coming from George Lucas that did not
already originate from the original Star Wars Trilogy,
and also due to the increasing demand from more and
more 'true' Star Wars fans, the storyline of Episode
II has been completely reformated and redesigned to
fit the movie-go-er's demand. The sequal to Episode I,
which has been redesignated, 'Episode II- The Random
Beating And Eventual Death Of Jar-Jar Binks', will
open in theaters March 22nd, or as soon as Josh Smith
or Sean McCabe have their next party- we all know how
popular these two underground celebrities are, after
all. In the beginning, movie critics around the globe
critisized Lucas on his new choice of title for the
up-coming continuation of Star Wars. When asked for
comment, Lucas replied, "Well.... we can go with this,
or stick with my original title." The critisism ended
abruptly after this interview, because 'The Attack of
the Clones' was way too cheezy to even reconsider.
So the film will open at it's normal release date,
and the plot has totally changed. The film opens with
a brief walk-on by Jar-Jar Binks, and the next hour is
filled the Lucas magic of visual and audio effects the
audiences grown to love and awe. Jar-Jar is suddenly
jumped by a jedi-gang, headed by Yoda and Obi-wan
Kenobi. Fingers, hair-folicals, eyes, and other
appendages are slowly ripped from the
computer-animated flesh as Jar-Jar is slowly torn
assunder lightsabor after lightsabor. Critics that
were invited to the private sneek-prieview were awed
by the visual display, including a new maneuver used
on Jar-Jar by Yoda, called 'the jedi bitch-slap!'.
Also included in the new film is a walk-on scene by
Anakin Skywalker and Princess Pademe. Since the film
was originally intended to show the stirring of
romance between the two, it is an hour into the
slow-death of Jar-Jar that the camera zooms in on a
landing dock in the background- this all takes place
on Coruscant, by the way- where Anakin is getting a
blow-job. Natalie Portman, when asked for comment on
the new ex-rated scene began to 'feel' herself and
replied simply,
"She's a diplimat, and like most diplomats, she has a
wicked tongue. And Anakin eventually turns into Darth
Vador, who is really an excentric gimp, so you know
he's a bad boy. Oh, Ane..... show me your
dark-side....yeah, oh yeah.... give me your
lightsabor...(and so she rambled.)"
So, drop whatever life you think you have, and come
see the ultimate sci-fi porno and alla round good
family fun of 'Star Wars: Episode II: The Beating and
Eventual Death of Jar-Jar Binks', and don't miss the
next installment, due to be in theaters next
year,'Star Wars: Episode III: The Beating and Eventual
Death of Mark Hamill'- which is said to open with
C-3PO and R2-D2 'coming out of the closet'......

***********
On a side note. The soundtrack to Harry Potter contains several Star Warsish sounding parts. Intentional or not, it works for the movie.
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Postby T Campbell on Fri Mar 15, 2002 3:52 am

Hardly surprising. John Williams scored both movies.
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Postby Vitriol on Fri Mar 15, 2002 9:24 am

Read this

http://www.mendax.org/article.php?article_id=50

then this:

http://www.mendax.org/article.php?article_id=51


edit: warning, these MAY contain spoilers for the next two movies.

How cool would this be? It doesn't seem likely, and the faans would probably hate it (every single book in the canon would go out the window) but it would certainly alter the feeling of 'why watch the movies? We know what's going to happen...'

Links stolen from Graveyard Greg

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Postby Catz Bartlett on Fri Mar 15, 2002 10:01 am

O.o

Much as I hate to admit it, this guy *really* makes a good case. The only flaw I could find was the line Vader said to Ben in Ep. 4 - but he showed the flaw in MY reasoning with the 'learner' clarification. I gotta admit, it makes it a lot easier to enjoy Ep. I using that theory...

Although there was one minor mistake - you *do* see Yoda in ghost-form, once, at the end of Return of the Jedi - when you see the three of 'em together.


On a similar note, I have an idea of why, perhaps, you're supposed to feel something for Vader's death - it's been established that, in a lightsaber duel between Anakin and Kenobi (when one of them began to turn to the dark side), one of them fell into a pit of lava. The other left, believing that his foe was dead, but Vader survived, although he needed the cybernetics, mask, etc. to survive afterwards.

Wouldn't that be more than enough to drive someone halfway insane - and, with the insidious powers of the Dark Side working in him, pushing him further away from reason, couldn't that have become full-blown psychosis? It's quite possible that, some of the time at least, Vader does believe that he is Anakin, and that he was betrayed by Obi-Wan and the other Jedi or some such. In that case, when he saves Luke, he would have finally realized some of the truth - that any betrayal was on his part, not that of the other Jedi - and that the Emperor was wrong.

Vader believed that he was irredeemable, and that in itself may have led him to become more evil...so when he chose to hurl Palpatine to his death, he realized that the good in him still remained. After his death, he probably regained his sanity...and, since he once felt fatherly towards Anakin, he might have felt grand-fatherly or whatever towards Luke - hence, his reference to Luke as "my son" in his dying speech.

*sorry to ramble on like this*

Finally, the switch doesn't really invalidate the books written after; Timothy Zahn's trilogy, for example (which I personally think deserves to become Episodes 7, 8 and 9), would still be valid. Leia doesn't feel positively towards Vader, dad or no (he *did* blow up her home, after all), and maybe, if Vader WASN'T her dad after all, that's why. Ben doesn't say anything to Luke, in his ghostly appearance, to invalidate his Anakin-hood...

Come on, this is too interesting an idea to not debate! Join in, everyone! ^_^
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Postby Vitriol on Fri Mar 15, 2002 11:54 am

There are problems with quite a few of the books if this works out; for instance, the furry assassin people (who's nqames I forget) consider themselves bound to Vader, and hence serve Leia as the 'daughter of Vader', which they determine by smell.


As Brin says, with the current interpretation of Star Wars, the Vader redemption scene is akin to Hitler being posthumously vindicated because he saved the life of his own son.
I don't really have a problem with the redemption bit in Ep6; it is up to the individual viewer to decide whether or not Vader truly redeemed himself.
But in Ep1, we are asked to consider Anakin Skywalker as the main hero. This is fine if you consider the movie on its own, but with knowledge of what happened in 4, 5 and 6 things become uncomfortabe.
Of course if the switch occurs, there's no longer a problem, and it would also explain why Obi Wan is given so little screen time in Ep1.
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