Gentle Fine?

Pennyangelos · Post by **Pennyangelos** » Sun Feb 24, 2002 8:59 pm

Sorry to be a nitpicker, but I'd have sworn the line is gentle *sin* . . .

KingLeon · Post by **KingLeon** » Sun Feb 24, 2002 9:08 pm

Heh, Will found something to say...

T Campbell · Post by **T Campbell** » Sun Feb 24, 2002 9:09 pm

http://www.classicreader.com/read.php/s ... 161/sec.7/

Doublespeak · Post by **Doublespeak** » Sun Feb 24, 2002 9:15 pm

He does not speak in the harsh tongue men call "english," he speaks Link, language of the Web.

Pennyangelos · Post by **Pennyangelos** » Sun Feb 24, 2002 9:20 pm

My copy, (Washington Square Press) says "sin." In old English, Fs were sometimes substituted for Ss. I suspect one or the other was a translation error. Such discrepancies occur often in Shakespeare. For example, the line from Hamlet "Oh, that this too, too sullied flesh would melt" is sometimes written as "solid flesh" instead. Crazy to think that a person's handwriting skills could have such an effect on literary history . . .

{edit}Super spiffy site, BTW!

[ This Message was edited by: pennyangelos on 2002-02-24 21:29 ]

Catz Bartlett · Post by **Catz Bartlett** » Sun Feb 24, 2002 9:41 pm

*shudders in horror*

Yeeeeeerg...I HATED Hamlet when we read it a few weeks ago...gimme A Midsummer Night's Dream any day. Give me ANYTHING except Ethan Frome, for that matter! That's the only more depressing thing I've read...

And my version of R&J said 'sin', but fine fits as well...it's not a boner like 'solid' and 'sullied' (or 'sallied', like my version read, for some reason...)

Tom the Fanboy · Post by **Tom the Fanboy** » Sun Feb 24, 2002 10:07 pm

On 2002-02-24 21:15, Doublespeak wrote:
He does not speak in the harsh tongue men call "english," he speaks Link, language of the Web.

C'mon, T know more languages than that!
He only deigns to use the typed word when others have not spake his message before.

He also speaks in comicrit and Olde Novelle.
When we see an actual message typed out it's not really him, but a servant typing at the keyboard. For if he were to type his "word" to us directly 'twould surely destroy our fragile human...........monitors.

Anyway, I was going to try a comment on todays comic but the only thing I could think of was joke about Will going for "Older Women", you know, since Kath was older too.

Pennyangelos · Post by **Pennyangelos** » Mon Feb 25, 2002 7:47 am

Yeeeeeerg...I HATED Hamlet when we read it a few weeks ago...

I hated it when I had to read it, too, but it has proven one of the most useful and quotable things I've ever read. I've come to adore it. Midsummer is fun, but fluffy; and it's much better preformed. Hamlet is a better one to read, I think, since a staging of the entire thing would be so accursed long.

Czhorat · Post by **Czhorat** » Mon Feb 25, 2002 7:52 am

Hamlet is certainly one of those things that everyone should read just because it's quoted so darned much and there are allusions to it everywhere. One probably should read the Bible for the same reasons (and no, I haven't read the Bible. I preach better than I practice).

Besides, NOT having read it just gives too much ammunition for intellectualist snobs who want to prove you unedumuhcated because you only read skiffy stuff. Personally, my favorite WS play was King Lear, but I'm a sucker for a wise fool....

T Campbell · Post by **T Campbell** » Mon Feb 25, 2002 8:10 am

http://www.bartleby.com/215/1114.html

"Gentle fine" sounds better to Will. He's into atonement.

Tom the Fanboy · Post by **Tom the Fanboy** » Mon Feb 25, 2002 9:03 am

On 2002-02-25 08:10, T Campbell wrote:
http://www.bartleby.com/215/1114.html

"Gentle fine" sounds better to Will. He's into atonement.

See, it's kind of like modern Bibles where the words of Jesus are red. The whole book is the word of God but those are direct quotes.

Dang, I wish we had the post smilies so I could put a big

on my post's header. It takes the ease out of joking around.

Anyway, I can understand swapping those little words in this case.

The only Shakespear play I hate is Timon of Athens. Why? It was put together from script notes that were recovered when Shakespear died. Why is it not a good play? Because when he wrote it he took all the GOOD ideas and developped them more fully in other plays! Plus it's the only play at the Oregon Shakesper Festival in Ashland that my drama club couldn't scalp tickets to, NO ONE wanted in there!

Doublespeak · Post by **Doublespeak** » Mon Feb 25, 2002 7:39 pm

I never read hamlet. But if we are talking favorites, I would say it is a close race between Othello and Macbeth, but Macbeth wins. Well, Macbeth without that scene concerning Hecate (sp?) and the witches. If supernatural forces are really influencing Macbeth, then the whole point of the damn play is dashed to sunder.

Stupid Scottish King.

Bevan · Post by **Bevan** » Mon Feb 25, 2002 8:19 pm

The witches don't control Macbeth, they simply gave him prophesies, which he misunderstood.

I think that the scenes with the witches are some of the more evocative parts in all of Shakespear.

Vitriol · Post by **Vitriol** » Tue Feb 26, 2002 5:22 am

But if the Witches hadn't told him the prophesies, then they wouldn't have come true anyway. This suggests that there are a number of possible futures, and the wiches are able to steer history by picking the ones they like; if they had prophesied that Duncan would die of old age in a few years and name Macbeth successor on his death-bed then the whole sordid affair would never have happened (and we would have missed out on a funky play)

Grifter · Post by **Grifter** » Tue Feb 26, 2002 7:26 am

See, it's kind of like modern Bibles where the words of Jesus are red. The whole book is the word of God but those are direct quotes.

I'm curious what bible that's from, because it's really not true. At best, about 1/3 of the things Jesus says in the bible are anywhere near actual quotes. Most of his comments were put in for reasons specific to each author.

Plus it's the only play at the Oregon Shakesper Festival in Ashland that my drama club couldn't scalp tickets to, NO ONE wanted in there!

Why would you scalp tickets to the OSF? I've been there twice and it's pretty darn good. What part of Oregon are you from?

[ This Message was edited by: Grifter on 2002-02-26 07:27 ]

*Kludge* · Post by ***Kludge*** » Tue Feb 26, 2002 8:42 am

On 2002-02-26 07:26, Grifter wrote:
See, it's kind of like modern Bibles where the words of Jesus are red. The whole book is the word of God but those are direct quotes.
I'm curious what bible that's from, because it's really not true. At best, about 1/3 of the things Jesus says in the bible are anywhere near actual quotes. Most of his comments were put in for reasons specific to each author.

Err, I think Tom was being sarcastic.

Tom the Fanboy · Post by **Tom the Fanboy** » Tue Feb 26, 2002 10:35 am

On 2002-02-26 07:26, Grifter wrote:

I'm curious what bible that's from, because it's really not true. At best, about 1/3 of the things Jesus says in the bible are anywhere near actual quotes. Most of his comments were put in for reasons specific to each author.

Why would you scalp tickets to the OSF? I've been there twice and it's pretty darn good. What part of Oregon are you from?

OK, first of all, I know what I mean when I talk about the Bible. I understand what Mark, Matthew, and Luke (but mostly Mark) were doing when they recorded the gospels. I understand why they all have different stories from the mouth of Jesus and what they used his words for. That's not the point though. The point is that while the Bible on the whole is called "God's Word" The parts where Jesus is talking (usually in red) is actually God (or his son, or his avatar depending on your sect) talking. I was making a connection between that and the way that Fans! could be seen as the "Word of T" and his links be considered what he actually says.

Capiche?

OK, the scalping thing is a little lighter.
See, my drama group went down there and two people had to cancel on us. So every show we went to we had two extra tickets. Some of the shows we could get reimbersed but the ones for the Elizabethan we had to scalp thetickets out front. My drama teacher was so cool, she let me and my "partner" keep a share of the sales.

I'm from the Portland area by the way. West Side. Forest Grove in fact. Last stop on the bus. Home of the Game Vault![shameless plug tm]

Oh, and I wasn't being sarcastic.

Matrygg · Post by **Matrygg** » Wed Feb 27, 2002 2:05 am

Really, sin makes a lot more sense logically than fine, if you look at the context of their conversation -- since it's a play on prayer versus kissing...

Personally, I never much liked Romeo and Juliet...I always liked Twelth Night. Although if you buy the notion of pastoralism as a trope in Shakespeares comedies (that is to say, that there is always a journey outside of societal confines to allow changes that aren't allowed within society, before a reintegration into that society) Romeo and Juliet shows what happens when that journey doesn't work out the way it's supposed to.

As far as the Bible goes, the stuff in red, in my understanding, are things that Jesus actually said. The divergent stories are because of divergent goals for each Gospel. Asmiov's Guide to the Bible has a very good historical gloss of this, and I'm too tired to do it justice at this hour.

Last question -- anybody out there in the Orange County, Ca. area?

T Campbell · Post by **T Campbell** » Wed Feb 27, 2002 4:38 am

I work with a magazine called Parenting Orange County. Does that count?

Raiden2 · Post by **Raiden2** » Wed Feb 27, 2002 9:05 am

Tom the Fanboy and I are both in/around the Portland area Grifter.

And I suspect they just had extra tickets....