Comic Genesis Forums

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Roscoe:
<B>See, in the US, it's different. We know damn well that whatever the government wants our military to do, they'll comply mindlessly. It's part of the training, the elimination of concience</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Roscoe is right, I've heard ex-military friends of my father say that if ordered to kill their mother, that they would have done so without hesitation. Never-the-less, I do support the military, what happened to the soldiers who returned from Vietnam was shameful. Despite my support of the troops, I will continue to question the President as long as he keeps making questionable decisions both abroad and at home.

Unfortantatly if there a country does without an army in order to stop thier corrupt politcions from imposing thier will on others then someone else's corrupt politicions will use thier army to impose will on the defensless.<P>As to the mindless obedience trainging, that is true and I object to it as well, I understand te reasons behind it in that it may be necassry to get a large number of people to do something that is very very stupid for them to do from a selfish standpoint. For instance, in order to save 10,000 men 500 must expose themselves to a brutal ambush. Unfortanatly we have lost the concept of noble self sacrifice. Even in popular culture we are being driven into looking at things from a purely personal perspective and not from a larger view of which we are a part.

I will take a sabbatical after this. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/redface.gif"><P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Quinch:
<B> The main difference between the two is that policemen, firemen and so on directly act to protect others...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>As much as I respect the police, I know that it's an occupation ideal for a hardened criminal. I've known a lot of good officers, but every so often a smuggler or thug finds his way into a system that makes illicit practices so much easier to perform.<P>It's not about the occupation - it's about authority, and the ability to abuse it.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>... whilst the military has no other purpose but to be the extension of the politicians running the country... </B> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Do the words "military coup" mean anything to you? Yes, the concept makes me shiver too. I can't say that such a coup is always bad, though - if the elected government is intent on ethnic cleansing, I think I might prefer to take my chances with a military that says, "No, you won't be doing that" if all else fails.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>... and unfotunately, when excercised, those actions have more to do with exerting influence upon other spheres then actually protecting your fellow citizens. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Still, I've never met a bully who could pass up a kid who could and would defend himself -why should I expect nations to be different?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> Furthermore, there are many who join the military not for the sense of duty, or honor, or the need to defend others, but simply out of personal gain, or darker still, the love of killing. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The military is far from having a monopoly on members out solely for personal gain or worse. Vocations such as medicine and the clergy have also seen too many of their ilk. But I will not condemn every priest, doctor, nurse, police officer, or school teacher for that - why then should I blame every soldier?

Hmmm...I was in the service, and left the service listed as a "conscienscious objector" -- I guess that gives me a unique view.<P>I think it's possible to be a highly intelligent and moral person in the military, and a good parent.<P>BUT I think that this would be in SPITE of the system. I went through the brainwashing -- knowing it was brainwashing probably made it work less on me than on some of my company mates. *shrug* They seem to be recruiting them for stupid these days.<P>------------------
<B>Scott Maddix</B>
<A HREF="http://pdi.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>Psychic Dyslexia Institute</A>
<A HREF="http://spoon.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>Fire on the Mountain</A>

One of the smartest men I know was a marine in vietnam. When we started school he didn't know how to even use a command prompt. At the end he was tutoring me in subnet masking, IP network configuration and on the finer points of CISCO's ISDN PPP facts. Graduated with a 3.8 his first job out of college pays 100K a year. Not too shabby for a community college trainee!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Roscoe:
<B>See, in the US, it's different. We know damn well that whatever the government wants our military to do, they'll comply mindlessly. It's part of the training, the elimination of concience, and I speak so as someone who's watched compassionate men and women turned into hardened soldiers.<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Maybe the friends you had turned out that way, but not all did. I'm proud to have served my country for four years 1 1/2 in Germany 2 years in Ft. Campbell Ky (101 Airborne) True I knew a lot of hard cases but each one knew deep down that they were the final judge of their actions and the fact they would still be held responsible for their actions at a military review.<P>The old following orders bushwah does not work in the US military anymore. Anybody that believes otherwise is fooling themselves. <P>As for the emotional stoning you mention, I think of all the soldiers I knew who fell in love and raised happy, more or less normal families and I still must disagree with your view. Granted military marriages have quite a few more challenges than a regular marraige, but that goes with the turf. After all how many insurance salesmen had to up and leave their families for an indeterminate amount of time to go to the Afghani dustbowl?<P>True I went through a lot of mental conditioning in basic and AIT. But being a Trufan I was well prepared with the novels mentioned earlier, Starship Troopers-Told me why the instructors would be so precise in the actions they wanted me to do.
Forever War-Told me not to expect to understand what was going on, that the people in control of my calendar were long ago and far away-and to be ready to take control if the sitation warrants and to be ready to back up my actions with reasons. Not whiny half thoughts and excuses.
Bill the Galactic Hero-Well, taught me not to be too near to sparks wearing polyester.<P>
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>
And this government is advising us to buy more stuff while embroiled in dealing with a very suspicious business death with tendrils into the President himself, who wasn't so much elected as won a lawsuit, and is an incompetent boob. And before you say so, yes, he's well aware of his incompetence and has put very intelligent people around him. Doesn't make me like Ashcroft, he who can declare any domestic organization terrorists, any more.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well my thoughts on the presidental race are pretty much "There was a difference?" I know all those recount reports keep saying Bush still won, but keep the faith baby!
BTW would you really want a president elected by people too dumb to put a stick through paper? Oh wait, we got one, never mind.
I'm happier with a president that selects staff by mental ability than by oral skills. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>
I'm sorry, I rant. Especially on military ethics and freedom of speech, both of which are going in directions I very much do not like at the moment.<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Then you are doing the proper thing by keeping the right by using it. That's why I went in.
I know it's cliched but I went through milspec so the folks around me could keep doing what they wanted to do. My parents always said I had a problem accepting authority. I came to realize what I had was a problem accepting automatic authority. Prove to me you are leader material and I'll storm the gates of hell on your word alone. Presume to be my leader and have no ability, you'll find the only way I follow you is out of curiosity.<P>
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If life were meant to be fair,
we would never be thirsty and have to pee at the same time.<p>[This message has been edited by Dusty668 (edited 02-14-2002).]

Harry and Will represent two very different views of military service, both of which I subscribe to at different times. I'm quite conflicted about this issue, as I am on many different things...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T Campbell:
<B>Harry and Will represent two very different views of military service, both of which I subscribe to at different times. I'm quite conflicted about this issue, as I am on many different things...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is something I've been looking forward to since we learned about Scott's military past. Hmmmm, I brought up Jones before but what if Scott knew Will's dad. ooooh.........<P>------------------
Tom the Fanboy
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Scott??<P>Has my memory forgotten someone? Who's Scott?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KingLeon:
<B>Scott??<P>Has my memory forgotten someone? Who's Scott?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Me?<P>------------------
<B>Scott Maddix</B>
<A HREF="http://pdi.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>Psychic Dyslexia Institute</A>
<A HREF="http://spoon.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>Fire on the Mountain</A>

Lieutenant Harry Scott, I think he means.

Oh... I always think of the characters by first names...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T Campbell:
<B>Harry and Will represent two very different views of military service, both of which I subscribe to at different times. I'm quite conflicted about this issue, as I am on many different things...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Welp, the military is made up of people, so of course it's contradictory.<P>I think of all the times in training, in Germany, and in the 101 that folks kept saying "Just remember this isn't the <B><I>REAL</B> Army</I>." <P>No one knows what the truth of the army is, certainly not the dopes that came up with the "Army of one" crap.<P>------------------
If life were meant to be fair,
we would never be thirsty and have to pee at the same time.

Sorry, I should have said Lt. Scott.<P>Truth is I couldn't remember his first name and I was too lazy to look it up. By calling him Scott I could be accurate and obscure enough to fish out the name, thank you T and PDI! <P>All my dumb secrets revealed! Ooooh!<P>
Oh, we call Jones by HIS last name.... <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif"><P>------------------
Tom the Fanboy
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