The TV/Film Thread

T Campbell · Post by **T Campbell** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 9:12 am

(Here we go, folks. I make no apologies whatsoever for length. I

Bevan · Post by **Bevan** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 9:50 am

Let's see, advantages if Fans manages to become a movie or TV show:1) More Fans
2) T. Campbell gets some money he richly deserves.
3) If he gets more money off Fans, he might be willing to pay for more articles.
4) I would conceivibly have a contact in the media business I might be able to tap into if I ever came up with a movie or TV proposal.Disadvantages
1) T. Campbell might have less time for the webcomic and Webcomics World. Though he hopefully wouldn't drop them all-together, the quality of his work might slip.
2) He might suffer from Karoushi (I believe that's the term, Japanese for dying of overwork).
3) He might lose creative control on Fans and have it warped out of shape.Hmm. 4 reasons fore and 3 against. Looks pretty good. Besides, the people who would be interested in doing something with Fans would be fellow fanboys, who would probably respect T.'s work a little more.I say go for it. If you die of overwork, I promise I'll attend your funeral.

Matrygg · Post by **Matrygg** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 10:07 am

There's always the possibility of pitching Fans! to one of the smaller print comics companies -- I think with the art and story you have so far, plus new material, you could probably go pretty far. Maybe do it as a KODT type affair, but geared more specifically to sci-fi fandom, rather than to gamers.--matt

Zalabar · Post by **Zalabar** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 10:07 am

Blast. No chin scratchy smilies. Ah well.
The transition from webcomic with small but loyal following, to a medium that could grab the masses attention. Mm... even ignoring the brightest burning candle metaphor, that's a big jump.
Speaking as one of the loyal lurkers, my biggest concern is how I'll manage to keep up. Being a lowly college student eats a lot of cash, after all.
But speaking as a still learning writer... if you think you should, then give it a shot. Never know until you try, and all that.
And since it's entirely possible I'll just fade away after this message, I just want to say that find Fans! to be one of the best sequential art pieces I read. The storylines are imaginative, the cameo's, well done, and the artwork handled with impeccible style. Zalabar
"Don't mind me. I'm just an extra."

The Retrospectre · Post by **The Retrospectre** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 10:18 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by T Campbell:
Should FANS pursue the film and television markets?Discuss.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I guess it all depends on how it's handled (though I think we've already seen enough hands for now <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif">).
Live action? Cartoon? CGI?
And how close would it be to the original? Would it be exactly the same as the comic? Changed in places? Changed completely and started from scratch?
I can see a film/television version of FANS as being good or bad, depending on how it's done.
I have some experience with this kind of thing, though as a fan and not a creator. I was once a rabid fan of a book series called "Animorphs," and it eventually became a TV series. I gave the show a chance, while continuing to read the books, but found that I really and truely did NOT like the TV version. Other people though, people who had never read or heard of the books, loved it! So the fandom got more fans because of the show. Granted, it was kind of annoying to start reading Animorphs fanfiction and be completely confused until I realized it was based on the TV show, but it still meant that more people were interested in the general fandom. Some people who started on the show started reading the books, some who started on the books started watching the show. It's all a matter of taste, I guess.
My point is, regardless of how much like the original comic it is, it's a way to make the fandom available to more people.
Personally, though, I would be kind of disappointed if a film/TV version was handled poorly (back to the hands again! Yeesh! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif">).
On another note (no more hands!), I would most likely enjoy a FANS book. Text book, not a comic book. Not that I don't enjoy the prettyshiny visual spiffiness of FANS as it is now, I'm just a big reader. A text book with a few illustrations here and there would be even spiffier!
Well, that's just my opinion as a FANS fan. Whatever you do and whichever direction FANS goes in, I wish you the bestest of luck! *smile* And thanks for creating such a spiffy fandom.
(Okay, done rambling, hope I made some sense and didn't sound too stupid. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">)------------------
~*~I wanna be KISSED!!!~*~
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Bodger · Post by **Bodger** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 10:40 am

Hi, devoted reader, new poster?All I can say is that if you do decide to take it to television, ANIMATE IT. Get it on Cartoon Network's Adult Swim or something. Just don't let it become another live-action show, because you KNOW something like this will end up on the WB or something. [Read: home of the white teenage angst shows.] It was MADE for animation.Bodger
"Of course, the only thing I watch these days is cartoons."------------------
The cow isn't anywhere. He's in my mind.-- Legend of Mana

Pirate Dave · Post by **Pirate Dave** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 11:09 am

A good 50% of the reason I like FANS is Jason Waltrip's art.
I'm in favor of a film or television version only if it's animated -AND- Jason Waltrip is in charge of art direction and/or character designs.

Roscoe · Post by **Roscoe** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 11:42 am

Explore other avenues and media, but keep in mind your roots and that THIS is where your core audience remains.And consult Chasing Amy. Specifically, the scene with Banky and Holden doing business with the TV people. When in doubt, ask Kevin Smith.------------------
<A HREF="http://go.to/onvideo" TARGET=_blank>O N Video</A>
If you have to get your privacy invaded, at least it's by three cute chicks.

WildMartin · Post by **WildMartin** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 11:43 am

I had no idea how much something like FANS!cost. I was in utter shock. If you can make some well deserved cash in the film/TV industry then go for it. Although, I think I like the idea of animation over live action myself.

Shatteredtower · Post by **Shatteredtower** » Fri Dec 07, 2001 11:47 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Bodger:
Hi, devoted reader, new poster?All I can say is that if you do decide to take it to television, ANIMATE IT.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Remember what happened to the animated version of The Tick? And the troubles Clerks had with their animation house (as well as ABC/Disney) are still fairly recent. WARNING Stream of consciousness ahead - ford at your own risk! Also, it's mostly questions - but I'm hoping I at least found a useful one for you, Mr. Campbell.Now as for a broader discussion of the future, the first question, as I see it, is what are you willing or able to risk? I know you've sacrificed plenty for this endeavour, but let's examine specifics. Money? How much, and can you find sponsors to provide it? Dignity? Integrity? Creative control? Sleep (or more sleep)? Are you willing to deal with people you might quickly learn to hate, every hour of every day for years or decades? Time, especially if it's the futile time of four years of production down the tubes because a change of executive resulted in a less sympathetic backer for your project? Are you willing to be made to jump through hoops for someone who says, "This is all very nice, but we want you to develop a series that stars a quadrapelegic dolphin and the marketing too... er, team of colle-... er, the pixie-like creatures that help him?Are you willing to risk having your entire female cast rendered by Gainax, with all of the physical adjustments that will entail?(Okay, boys, your fan service moment is over - Gainax will have nothing to do with this project, and we all know it. Their loss, our reason to breathe a sigh of relief. And stop visualizing their rendering of Rumy already! Ladies, I apologize for this intermission - now, where were we?) The second question, though perhaps it should have been the first, is how far would you like to go with this, or maybe, what have you always wanted to try?Come to think of it, that is the first question, because I suspect that it's a mathematical formula that looks like this:Future plans = ambitions/risksBut back to the question. Don't think about it, Mr. Campbell, just answer the question: What do you want from this? First answer, right off the top of your head. After that, then you can modify it, but write that first one down - too many chessplayers have lost because they doubted their first instinct. (Yes, they've also lost because they moved on it without considering it - but always examine the first thought.)I'm glad that you've found a receptive audience here, and I wish this endeavour was also more lucrative financially for you. (Yours is a project that I would support with cash anywhere but online - irrational or not, I can't bring myself to pay for things this way. Attempts to point out how foolish or misguided that is will be futile, even if they are correct, and I will thank people for not wasting their time in trying.)But what are you willing to risk throwing it away to gain, and how much of a risk are you willing to make of it? And will you be able to be satisfied if the risk is all for naught, and you lose what you have wagered?Is it worth the price of failure as well as the price of success? And is it worth paying that price over and over again?You can't do it because it will work - you have to do it because you want to do it, and because you believe it's worth doing, even if nothing comes of it at the end. That it is a dream worth carrying past every nay-sayer, bureaucrat, con man, and threat of litigation, damnation, or defenestration.[This message has been edited by Shatteredtower (edited 12-07-2001).]

Gormenghastly · Post by **Gormenghastly** » Sat Dec 08, 2001 1:07 am

It's only natural to want to see how far your talents can take you. The thing is to do so with your eyes open.I'd personally love to see Fans ported to any and all media: dead tree comics, novels, short stories, Shrinky Dinks, posters, board games, action figures, ViewMaster slides, carved into the sides of mountains, Colorforms, radio plays, television, movies, even television movies.The question to ask yourself before jumping into any of those formats is whether what you gain is worth what you give up. And before getting involved with Hollywood, ask yourself that question many times. The archives of any good Hollywood / Sci-Fi news website are full of articles about creators of shows who've been forced off the series they created. The people like Joss Whedon, Chris Carter, and J. Michael Straczynski who manage to create something and keep control of it seem to be the fortunate exceptions.But if that's a gamble you're willing to take, and a consequence you can live with, by all means go for it.Whatever decisions you make, may you be blessed with success and happiness.BTW, I am *SO* glad to hear that Fans will finish it's five year run. Too often when someone posts a notice about the future of something, it means it doesn't have one.

FlyingFish · Post by **FlyingFish** » Sat Dec 08, 2001 1:20 am

Hey, T, how many hands you got anyway? <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">Okay, seriously:Live-action TV is probably out of the question at the moment. The special effects required to do some of the events in the comic could approach that of your average Trek episode (that's $1 million an episode even for the first season TNGs). As much as we love the strip ourselves, you've got to admit that it'll be a complete unknown in Hollywood. Producers are usually willing to try out a few unknowns, but not for that kind of money.Animation could bypass most of the budgetary concerns, and preserve a lot of the familiarity (the drawn format). However, cartoons generally aren't taken as seriously as other TV shows, at least not in America. Also, as most anime fans will tell you, good English voice actors are a rare commodity. (On the plus side, they're also cheaper than regular actors.) And there's the question of who's going to do the drawing itself. Jason? Can he handle the load? Will a professional-yet-stranger-to-the-series be able to pick up the essence that is Fans?I see the book option as the most promising. It's relatively cheap, can be done on a small scale at first and worked up to bigger publishers as success improves, and can still lead to either of the other two options later if you really hit it big. Plus you've already proven your talent for writing. I say go for it.Incidentally, where would this series/novel start in the story? At the very beginning of the action? After the point where you (God forbid) plan to end the comic? Or will it be a tale that occured in the middle of the timeline but which we never saw?

Xiane · Post by **Xiane** » Sat Dec 08, 2001 1:33 am

Here's a hands up for either:a) Printed comicPErsonally I'd love to see Fans in color.b) Animated series on TV.Like another suggested aim for cartoon networks (teletoon or cartoon network) with "adult" sections (ie show anime, real anime not the modified us crap). Teletoon for example shows a series called Undergrads depicting the life of a group of friends in thier first year of college...and the mayhem a tech geek, a preppy, a drunkard and your joe average can have.and this is the tamer of the four risque shows it airs (Quads, Mission Hill, and The Oblongs being the other three)While fan's isn't really risque (though those two girls jamming with the bottles might qualify as might alison in general)
it would belong there rather than a fox kids saturday morning line up.
Anyways as long as some money gets to the hands of those that make this great web comic. A+ all the way! <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">------------------
This senseless blurb brought to you by the letter....X

ThreeLetterAcronym · Post by **ThreeLetterAcronym** » Sat Dec 08, 2001 2:12 am

I think an animated version of Fans! would obviously be closer to its current image. However, there are still some problems with this. First of all, in the U.S. animated series and movies are rarely taken seriously. Almost all viewers (with some exceptions, such as anime fans, which many of the fans of Fans! are, admittedly) view anything animated as being meant for kids, which when looking only at American made cartoons is for the most part true. I think even those who make American cartoons do not take them seriously. I worry that those in charge of any Fans! animated series, particularly if T's control were to become limited, could take it and make it unintelligent, unserious, and/or unsophisticated.And then, even if it were well made, there's still the problem of reaching viewers. Potential viewers might hear about it, and discover that its animated and be immediately uninterested due to their natural prejudice against cartoons. Even if it were advertised as an "adult cartoon", many would view this as an oxymoron, and others might just think that that means that its porno.Given that the point of making a TV show is to reach a greater audience, an animated series is rather risky. On the other hand, live action has problems as well. Its more likely to be taken seriously by the rest of the populace, but has just as much potential to be poorly made. Also, live action is less capable of keeping the artistic image of Fans! and being true to its source material. While its more likely to draw in a new audience, its also quite likely that it could turn away alot of the long time readers of the comic who may be upset that our favorite characters don't look quite the way they do as we know and love them.In either version there's also the problem of copyright problems. While all the names are changed, it's still obvious what all of them are supposed to be. A small scale webcomic with only a few thousand readers may not draw enough attention to bring on the lawyers, but references in a tv show almost certainly would, particularly those references that are in the form of a parady. The FIB would be safe, but Miller and Sully, even though their characters are very different from their well known sources, are obviously not going to fly. Many of the creatures present in the FIB HQ are well known from various media and also could not be included. If these issues could be resolved, it would be great, but without that I think Fans! loses alot.I think Fans! has great potential to be a fantastic tv series (of course, so do alot of things and many of them don't work out, but still...). Unfortunatly, given the nature of television in this country, it also has great ponential to be an unheralded flop, or even worse, be rejected and never even get a chance. I say go for it, T, but be cautious and don't let it get away from your creative vision.And that's it for your daily dose of pessimism from yours truly, ThreeLetterAcronym

Nicolas Juzda · Post by **Nicolas Juzda** » Sat Dec 08, 2001 2:41 am

Hi,I admit to just skimming this thread, so someone may have said this already, but...You do not- repeat DO NOT- get a TV show just by deciding that you're willing to make one.T's liabilities: He has no experience in the TV business that I am aware of. He has no connections that I am aware of. He has a concept that is extremely niche, would demand a moderate-to-large special effects budget (or, if you'd prefer an animated series that didn't look like an old Hanna Barbara cartoon, a moderate-to-large animation budget), and court copyright problems regularly.T's assets: A concept he wants to film (just like a million other guys have). A built-in audience of a couple thousand people (shows get cancelled regularly with far more viewers that that). A demonstrated ability to write in another medium entirely.And movies? Multiply the above by a thousand.Bottom line: I really do not see this going anywhere.Nicolas

Catz Bartlett · Post by **Catz Bartlett** » Sat Dec 08, 2001 3:07 am

At first, I must admit I was a bit leery of the idea of you porting Fans!...But after reading what everyone here had to say, I gotta say that I changed my mind. As long as you manage to keep a stranglehold on Fans! (keep it true, no matter what!), and don't make a live-action *shudder* series of it, I think you've got a good chance of a good outcome.Maybe, as some said, trying to make it to a print application first might be best, but I don't really know enough about the 'real world' to judge - but rest assured, if you make a Fans! novel, here's one assured sell, and if you make it into TV, here's gonna be one dedicated viewer ^_^One thing that I dunno if it'll work or not...Can't copyrighted characters be reproduced with written permission from those who hold the copyright? Maybe, if asked, you wouldn't have to change Fans! for the small screen, so you could keep the two best two non-main characters in it! *loved the FIB Miller and Sully story arc*Peace out and good luck with whatever you decide ^_^------------------
Catz Bartlett, CI
Order of the Knights of JubalBe Virtuous and Cool!"It is better to deserve honors and not have them than to have them and not deserve them." -- Mark Twain"Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear, not absence of fear." -- Mark Twain"People who hate cats, will come back as mice in their next life." --Faith Resnick"I have studied many philosophers and many cats. The wisdom of cats is infinitely superior." --Hippolyte Taine"It is better to guard thy honor than thy pocket - money is a fleeting thing, but honor lasts a lifetime." - Me ^_^

Orko · Post by **Orko** » Sat Dec 08, 2001 4:27 am

Well, I have to say that I think the idea of you being able to take this comic and parlay it into real personal success (beyond the satisfaction that I hope you get from what I consider a job VERY well done) is really grand. My firmest and first advice that I will give is, do exactly what you want to do with this. As much as the readers of the comic will have a lot to say on the matter, keep in mind that this is YOUR vision and you don't really need to justify your decisions to anyone but yourself.Keeping that in mind, I'd love to see a live action version of the comic! Most of the events that take place in the strip could easily be covered by good costuming, set design and cinematography. The only exceptions that I can really think of are Rumy's aliens and the superhero storyline. As sad as it would be, I also think you would have to cut Cookie Monster and the various other trademarked characters out of the FIB compound storyline, and goodby to The Count in the Miller and sully storyline!As successful as I could see an animated series being, I just enjoy live action series more, and as a drama major myself, I love to see new opportunities for unknown actors. The great thing about all of this? Not only does it not preclude the possiblity of novel or print comics, but it makes it more likely! to use the popular modern example, look at what has happened with Buffy: TVS, commercial success in television has led to publication of novels and print comics. Unless you see serious potential for turning the comic into a movie, which I could see, (look at Ghost World!) but is probably risky, (look at Preacher <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/frown.gif">) it seems like TV is the medium that can give the others the boost to get off the ground, and is likely to be most lucrative for you.Thanks, sorry for rambling so much.aaron

Drooling Fan Girl · Post by **Drooling Fan Girl** » Sat Dec 08, 2001 4:30 am

O.k. I've created a channel on nightstar.
<A HREF="http://www.nightstar.net/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.nightstar.net/</A> Can give you all the info to get onto nightstar's IRC network.The channel name is #fans!Take Care
DFG

Amorph · Post by **Amorph** » Sat Dec 08, 2001 4:42 am

Lampooning characters from other shows isn't impossible: The Simpsons get away with it all the time. Find out how they do it. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">Otherwise, it seems like a big jump. Especially if you aren't keen on fending off people who have all kinds of stupid ideas for making Fans! more commercially appealing, and whose funding and support are contingent on your adopting those ideas.I have to agree with an earlier poster that Jason's art is a big reasons I follow Fans! It'd lose a lot going to live action. Maybe if you invested in <A HREF="http://www.toonboomstudio.com" TARGET=_blank>Toon Boom Studio</A> and experimented with an animated Fans! - released on <A HREF="http://www.ifilm.com" TARGET=_blank>ifilm</A> or something - you could at least demonstrate (or not) that you can convert to an animated format.Before taking any big leaps, though, maybe you should look at smaller steps. Sure, Keenspace is free, but it can't produce revenue for you either. It looks like, for whatever reason, you won't get featured on Keenspot any time soon - and that hardly matters either, because it's not paying either, and after your interview in Webcomics World I have to wonder if the guys running it will still be able to once they're out of college.If you got your own hosting, it would cost (though not much), and you could set up your own advertizing, which is work, but which at least ensures that you get the proceeds. If you make enough from advertizing to cover the hosting costs (we pay $17/mo for a small business hosting solution for my band) then you're not doing any worse, at least, and you have the potential to actually earn a bit. However, you'd have to do the extra work of courting advertizers...Or maybe there are other webcomic publishers? I haven't heard of any others that would have any particular advantages over Keen*, though.Failing those, some of the Keenspot artists seem to get a little extra from auctions, shwag, and begging via PayPal.------------------
James"Without death there would be very little progress." - Steve Jobs[This message has been edited by Amorph (edited 12-08-2001).][This message has been edited by Amorph (edited 12-08-2001).]

Red Viking · Post by **Red Viking** » Sat Dec 08, 2001 5:14 am

TV show? Cool.You could also try PayPal. A lot of web cartoonists get a lot of money from those donations.
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PH33R 7H3 D4NC1NG M4G3!