Comic Genesis Forums

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GodaiYuhsaku:
<B>Not going to co-operate?<P>Where is that evideent?<P>
"had me at "cannot allow the gov." is an agreement to help.<P>Its a play on "You had me at hello."</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hmm, you're right. Tim IS agreeing. But isn't Tim also saying that Thack is piling it a little thick? I can't say why I read that as Tim not going to cooperate or that he didn't believe Thack; I guess something about Tim's expression.<P>--Tuscahoma<p>[This message has been edited by Tuscahoma (edited 06-14-2001).]

...debate over which is better, Thack's brand of monarchical, monomaniacal, one-mind-driven style of "order" or the FIB's more soulless, pluralistic, shadow-government style of same...

You can't control something that doesn't really exist. You could no more use the Euopean Union as a shadow government than you could subvert Fandom in general. "Fandom" does not exist. It is a term like
"The Holy Roman Empire" used to classify a very large chaotic group with a few vaugely related traits. You can say that there are Star Treck fans, or even Space Sci-Fi Fans, but nobody likes EVERY kind of Fantasy (even if they would, nobody could possibly expose themselves to every imaginable type of Fantasy Media), differences in taste separate different "spheres" of fandom, each forming it's own subculture.
<p>[This message has been edited by Murasaki no Ryu (edited 06-14-2001).]

They both stink. <P>The advantage to being ruled by Thack is that there's an obvious leader and an obvious target for dissatisfied citizens. You know what you have, and know who to exert pressure against if you want change. The bad news is that the nature of society is highly dependant on Thack's whim. Even if he is an enlightened ruler, there's no way for this kind of structure to last after his death. Eventually you'll end up with a real loser in charge, and the whole thing will collapse - if it's not overthrown first.<P>The advantage to the shadow-government is that people have at least the illusion of freedom. Information may be hidden, but people CAN make choices based on what little they do see, and those who manage to glance beneath the surface can find various outlets in the entertainment industry. The problem is that the FiB is hidden from view and accountable to nobody. The population at large doesn't even KNOW that there are vampires, aliens, and other strange creatures walking the earth. This means they can't have informed opinions on these matters and would have a hard time trying to change or influence serious matters. The other problem is that the FiB is more self-sustaining. Jones is clearly the leader, but one gets the idea that the FiB bureacracy has a mind of its own, and would survive without him.<P>Thack scares me less that the FiB, but neither is very good for the world in general.

So, before we get to the debate, I guess it's pretty obvious that Thack DOES remember why he is in there, and Tim saw through that little lie. Now can Tim get out of Thack's little section of cyberspace with his mind intact, now that he's not going to cooperate?<P>Oh, and if I were being cynical, I would say that we (the US and others in the same Economic Space) are currently testing out the FIB-style of Order right now, with Big Money taking the place of FIB. And there are quite a few countries testing out Thack's style of Order. As to which is better, I can't even begin to speculate. How about Thack's, since with one man, he will die eventually and thus his reign come to an end, whereas a Shadow Cabinet is more like a Hydra; you have to kill all of the heads to kill the beast.<P>--Tuscahoma

Not going to co-operate?<P>Where is that evideent?<P>
"had me at "cannot allow the gov." is an agreement to help.<P>Its a play on "You had me at hello."<P>
And we can't be certain that thack is going to want to "Rule" the world. With his memmories only partially intact.<P>Anyway hadn't thack wanted to simply be THE shadow puppeteer.<P><P>------------------

Thack didn't want to rule the world, he wanted to rule fandom. Which would be an impossible dream as fans are perhaps the most unruly mob there has ever been since the flower children.<P>I wonder if Thack would rather be fandom's savior instead of its ruler.

I thought Thack wanted to rule the world by destroying fandom.. To be the only innovator in a world of deadheads was the rational, I believe. And I agree with Czhorat.. both of them stink, epsecially for fans. Thack wants them all killed, FiB wants them all under control.. maybe not directly in every case, but those who aren't dangerous enough to be silenced must be pacified into harmless pursuits.<P>-Wish
Cleaning out the car, oh cleaning out the car...

Tom, <P>I was hoping that 'C' would stand for 'Czhorat'! That's right - just give the whole world to me. Trust me, I'll try very hard not to damage it. <P>Also, welcome aboard to Murasaki no Ryu who seems to have slipped in unnoticed.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tuscahoma:
<B> Hmm, you're right. Tim IS agreeing. But isn't Tim also saying that Thack is piling it a little thick? I can't say why I read that as Tim not going to cooperate or that he didn't believe Thack; I guess something about Tim's expression.<P>--Tuscahoma<P>[This message has been edited by Tuscahoma (edited 06-14-2001).]</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Why? The Exclamation mark?<P>That could be Tim going. Oh shit he doesn't realize that I'm one of the reasons he's here.<P>As Tim was the one who basically knew who was doing the conrolling and that thack would be nearby. etc.<P>------------------

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GodaiYuhsaku:
<B> Why? The Exclamation mark?<P>That could be Tim going. Oh shit he doesn't realize that I'm one of the reasons he's here.<P>As Tim was the one who basically knew who was doing the conrolling and that thack would be nearby. etc.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It just seems like the usage implies, Thack had him at "cannot allow th' government", thus the rest of what he said was unnecessary, "what we knowledge-sharers have built." Thack is trying to say that he and Tim belong to some altruistic fellowship, and I think Tim believes Thack is just trying to flatter/cajole him into helping.<P>--Tuscahoma,
Unearthing Language Skills Made Rusty By Being A Programmer For Too Long

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maritza Campos:
<B>Hahahah! The only way to rule fandom is to become an icon like Shatner or Spielberg or Tolkien.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think we've been round this buoy before, in (I think) the "Who Owns Fandom" thread. As Murasaki implied, fandom is not a monolithic organisation, it is a collection of individuals who share a fanatical interest in SF (swerve - digression - I like Asimov's expansion of SF to "Surrealistic Fiction", as opposed to mainstream "realistic" fiction <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"> - back to the plot) The pro's are objects of worship by small factions of fans, and hold the interest of wider subsets of fandom, but I don't see them as leaders or rulers. Fandom is "self-modifying code", and will mutate to sidestep any attempts at ruling.<P>Back to T's original question. I find myself agreeing with Czhorat (what, again!). The lesser of the two evils is Thack; because he's visible, accountable. Dictatorships are not always a bad thing: the famous example of Kemel Ataturk springs to mind. But, being personality-lead, they rarely outlast the dictator, and the position tends to attract unsuitable candidates <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"> . <P>The "undergovernment" scenario is really quite sinister, because its existance is hidden. Accountable only to itself (if at all), it could swing from benevolent to evil, insulated by its god-like detachment. Free of the restraints of critical feedback, it would easily fall prey to the old saw: "absolute power corrupts absolutely". Conspiracy theorists start here!<P>Muttley
The real world is not user friendly
(Kelvin Throop)<p>[This message has been edited by Muttley (edited 06-15-2001).]

C!<P>No, not cookie, that's another thread!<P>C, as in the other option!<P>Out in the open world dictatorship that treats fandom like it wants to be treated! Just like everybody else! Fandom in "C" will be downtrodden and oppressed the same as every other category of humanity under the control of "C". <P>Just what is "C" you ask? Well, it is a unified world government under the solid rule of a solitary dictator, his name is unimportant (though Lyle, Charles, or Mark are all likely). He will simply be reffered to as The Overlord. <P>The Overlord will have become the The Overlord by first inventing a super efficient and easy to make alchohol fuel. The fossil-fuel alternative crazy market will buy it up and scrap the plans for the more costly fuel cell models in favor of his super fuel (which he created with the help of a High School friend he had Chemistry class with). The oil industry and the "Big Three" will attempt to shut Him down but they will be unable due to the efforts of a crafty lesbian free agent who will be sabotaging their plans. The agent, when/if caught, will be freed from legal trial's by her sister, a high powered lawyer. The lawyer was another friend of Him and represents him in the upcoming anti-trust trials. <P>After overcoming the anti-trust trials set up by the puny government he will use the current energy and economic crises to buy his way into power. Politically leapdfrogging from country to country using the fuel formula and the vehicles that it powers to quell any other resistance. After setting up a shuttle service to the moon he will take all of the world's nuclear weapons and place them in silos on the ear side of the moon while locating his super secret lair on the far side. this is where he can hide with his trusted second (that same friend from High School Chemistry) and the five year old plan monitor. He will not spend most of his time there however because the efficiently powered shuttles will enable him quick transit to anywhere on earth. <P>One of the first things done after he has secured world order will be the translocation of all lemurs on Madagascar (and anything else there that has been deemed "cool") to the African continent. After this there will be a large census during which anyone who is deemed an "a-hole" or "jerk" by the Overlord shall be sequestered on Madagascar. At this time, anyone who is though by the overlord to be a threat to his power shall also be put on the island of Madagascar. Once The Overlord's troops have finished the relocation, radiation safeguard units will be set up along the continental coastline as well as around that quadrant of the Indian Ocean. The Overlord will then NUKE the entire island of Madagascar into a smoking reef with the weapons he moved to the moon earlier. The radiation crewzs will then secure the island and seal it so that the dangerous waste and any living creatures do not escape.<P>At this point there will be mixed feelings about the mass murder that has occured but in the following days the general well being and good attitude that permeates the culled society will be appreciated and the Overlord will be embraced by his people. <P>The Overlord will institute a series of regional governors that answer directly to him. These people will be incharge of regions or even whole continents depending on their favor with the Overlord. For instance, the governor placed in charge of Quebec will be named Larry.<P>Another part of the Overlord's governmental change will be the transformation of the Los Angeles Megalopolis into it's own autonomous state and it's severing from the geographic body of California. The state of Los Angeles with then be an island seperated by the San Andreas Strait from the rest of California.<P>The Overlord will have many other new plans and inovations which will be implemented. Most important of these will be the cloning and mental recreation of himself every ten years. Thus we will never be any younger than 28 and never older than 38. This will keep the world safe from the control of a witless heir until a suitable one is found. The Overlord does not plan on living forever as that can get boring even if you do run the world.<P>So I say vote "C" for The Overlord and say goodbye to puppeteers! The Overlord won't control you, you'll just want to do what he says!<P>------------------
Tom the Fanboy
http://www.geocities.com/tee-moss<P>[begin Fans! code]
E(xkodt)M++FF+++A++W+++FCt++(s)Ip20000406f1mcKt+cCp- -bw++Ll++
[end Fans! code]

Actually Murasaki no Ryu is just old Murasaki post Godai-style name glitch.<P>Nothing to be alarmed about.<P>
oh, and I never said that YOU couldn't be the Overlord, did I? He is a shadowy and mysterious figure! I actually slapped that plan together from all my friends' personal "when I take over the world" schemes and dreams. Also, just a touch of the infamous list.<P>------------------
Tom the Fanboy
http://www.geocities.com/tee-moss<P>[begin Fans! code]
E(xkodt)M++FF+++A++W+++FCt++(s)Ip20000406f1mcKt+cCp- -bw++Ll++
[end Fans! code]

What I don't understand about Thack is why he bothered with the whole assasination and brainwashing thing at all.<P>Conventional liquid rocket fuel, stoichiometric hydrogen and oxygen has an energy density of about 1.5e7 joules/kg.<P>Now, there's a lot of unknowns about those laser pistols, beam width, beam time, power... So. Figureing 1 second long, 1cm diameter, 50% efficiency, 2kJ/cm2 damamge for that one second... Works out to a 200kJs laser roughly, sounds about right for a usefull weapon. That'd be roughtly 4,000kJ per pull of the trigger, and a 10 shot "powercell" would need 40,000kJ (40megaWattSecconds) or 4.0e7 joules/?kg. <P>That'd be nearly 3x as much energy than you'd get from 1kg rocketfuel, 5x if the powercell weighs .5kg of a 1kg gun. Too many unknowns though, but still. Think of what he could of done with that technology. <P>Electric cars, planes, boats... The entire world could run from a few massive liquid metal fast breeder reactors, eliminating all polution and energy problems. Flying to annother planet would become as cheap as flying to annother country (no more carrying around bulky fuel). With asteroid mineing and setting up solar colection satelites, humanity would be ushered into a golden age completely free of resource or energy constraints... <P>He'd of been revered as a god. You like sci-fi? Imagine being able to sign up as an asteroid miner or space explorer or space marine all thanks to one man.<P>Course, he would'nt been nearly as interesting of a villan if he just patented his inventions and became unfathomably right.<P>And, of course, it's early in the morning and I've spent the night codeing. Math is probably waaaay off, but it has to be at least 5x or else you'd have laser armed tanks filling out armies around the world. <P>-Veryinky
(going to bed, nite all)
Ps. This post originaly was gona have about 3 pages worth of math. But realised I'm probably the only one who'd even care at all about this issue so just ranted away instead.
Pps. Great online resource for lasers is Sam's Laser FAQ at <A HREF="http://repairfaq.physik.tu-berlin.de/sam/laserfaq.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://repairfaq.physik.tu-berlin.de/sa ... faq.htm</A>
Ppps. I'm annoying. I know. I type a lot too. But I blame that on my weird keyboard. <P>Pppps. Actualy on topic too: Is the FIB actualy trying to impose a new world order? I thought they were just trying to get new agents and contain creatures which kill (or try) people. Ends justifies the means mentality is bad, but still...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by veryinky:
<B>Course, he would'nt been nearly as interesting of a villan if he just patented his inventions and became unfathomably right.<P>And, of course, it's early in the morning and I've spent the night codeing. Math is probably waaaay off, but it has to be at least 5x or else you'd have laser armed tanks filling out armies around the world.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It's been too many years since I was a physics major turned math major, but essentially you're right. Fuel source for a working laser pistol, as well as the laser pistol itself both represent incredible technological leaps and he could have made tremendous money off of either. Money wasn't the point. Power and control were. Bright as he was, as good an inventor he was, someone else would come along eventually and overshadow him. He wanted control of the source of ideas and imagination. Signs of a truly deranged man as well as an impossible goal, but there it is.<P>--Tuscahoma,
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