Somebody had to do it...

[Aris Katsaris]

[quote]
...and we

[Blondlot]

[quote]
On 2002-04-04 13:31, Aris Katsaris wrote:
[quote]
...and we

[Doublespeak]

On 2002-04-04 02:25, Blondlot wrote:

I am going to assume that you don't think any action leaves room for correction in this scenario. I don't think we would be having this conversation if he slashed Guth with a knife.

But he didn't. We wouldn't be having this conversation if Will freaked out and beat him into a coma either. See how easy it is to speculate about possibilities and turn a mole into cancer?

Actually I was just trying to make sure I understood what Steve was saying. Because believing that Stu should be redeemed by the club because what he has done isn't that bad, is a lot different from saying that any action can be redeemed in this scenario. I am not trying to demonize Stu by blowing things out of proportion. I am not a politician

On 2002-04-04 02:25, Blondlot wrote:
While they may not be able to change him they do need to give him fair warning that his behavior is unacceptable. He is a part of their club whether they like it or not and just removing him is as wrong as anything he's done so far.

and

On 2002-04-04 02:25, Blondlot wrote:
They still need to do things democratically because they are a school-sponsored club. If they want to become an elite cadre of freedom-fighting ninja nerds that can excuse anyone from their ranks at the drop of a hat then maybe they need to tell the rest of the world first.

No one is arguing on behalf of the rights of Stu the rapist or Stu the murderer. Some of us just think that Stu the slime ball should have been afforded the justice available to everyone through the fair systems we put in place so that rash judgments can be avoided.

I'm sorry if any of this came out garbled. I wrote it at four in the A.M while listening to Neutral Milk Hotel and staving off sleep.

No worries Blondlot, your post was good. What is Neutral Milk Hotel anyway? That is a cool name.

Ok, but why should they give him warning? Why should they give him another chance? That part still confuses me.

Stu clearly isn't someone who hides his feelings. It is not a conscious thing, he just doesn't see anything wrong with who he is. Saying that it is cool that Alisin is going to die is the same to him as you and me saying, "I loves me some pizza." Through his interactions with the Club, they get an idea of what kind of person Stu is right away. They do not want the kind of person Stu is in the club. This is not an example of him not being allowed in the club because he is black, a girl, or annoying, but because he is a shitty human being (by everyone's own admission).

His chance was the fact that he was in the club. He didn't do very well.

I do not see how this being a school club has anything to do with it. The majority determines who is a member of the club, and the majority has decided. They followed the rules: they had their vote.

Now what would the school say? Would they take issue? "He called me a faggot and other such hurtful terms, and attacked me." "He made unwanted sexual advances on me." "He says that it is good my wife is going to die, and suggests women are merely sex objects." Two of these are grounds for being kicked out of many schools; they would not have issues with him being taken out of a club.

If they give him warning that his behavior is unacceptable, what would be the point? It is too late; they know what kind of human being he is. Him simply keeping it all in doesn't change who he is. What is the point of him being there if he isn't allowed to voice opinions? They might as well buy a potted plant and call it Stu. Well until one of the leaves touches Jackie's thigh, then it is out!


A little off topic, I think it is funny that they let in new members at all. I mean they are constantly in life or death situations, and letting in random people when there is a good chance they will be nuked is a bad thing. At least don't bring them with you when you are fighting giant thought eating brains. Guth doesn

[Blondlot]

Neutral Milk Hotel is a band on the Elephant six label. Some other bands on the label are-

The Collective
The Apples in Stereo
Beulah
Black Swan Network
Chocolate USA
Circulatory System
Dixie Blood Moustache
Dressy Bessy
Elf Power
Essex Green
Frosted Ambassador
The Gerbils
Major Organ and the Adding Machine
Marbles
Minders
The Music Tapes
Olivia Tremor Control
Orchestre Fantastique
Pipes You See, Pipes You Don't
Secret Square
Sunshine Fix
Von Hemmling

Apples In Stereo, NMH, Elf Power and Olivia Tremor Control are the best of the lot, in my opinion.

[quote]
A little off topic, I think it is funny that they let in new members at all. I mean they are constantly in life or death situations, and letting in random people when there is a good chance they will be nuked is a bad thing. At least don't bring them with you when you are fighting giant thought eating brains. Guth doesn

[Ray Radlein]

On 2002-04-04 21:05, Blondlot wrote:
Neutral Milk Hotel is a band on the Elephant six label. Some other bands on the label are-

To quibble, Elephant 6 is not a label; it is a collective. The actual artists record for a wide variety of different labels, including Arena Rock (Elf Power), Kindercore (Of Montreal, Dressy Bessy), Spin Art (The Apples in Stereo), Emperor Norton (The Sunshine Fix), and Merge (Neutral Milk Hotel).

The Collective
The Apples in Stereo
Beulah
Black Swan Network
Chocolate USA
Circulatory System
Dixie Blood Moustache
Dressy Bessy
Elf Power
Essex Green
Frosted Ambassador
The Gerbils
Major Organ and the Adding Machine
Marbles
Minders
The Music Tapes
Olivia Tremor Control
Orchestre Fantastique
Pipes You See, Pipes You Don't
Secret Square
Sunshine Fix
Von Hemmling

Apples In Stereo, NMH, Elf Power and Olivia Tremor Control are the best of the lot, in my opinion.

I'll go along with that, although I'd put Dressy Bessy, Essex Green, and Sunshine Fix (which is really almost the same thing as OTC) at not too far behind.

Neutral Milk Hotel's In The Aeroplane Over The Sea is one of my absolute favorite albums. I just got the new Sunshine Fix and Dressy Bessy CDs, so I haven't had time to really listen to them yet.


For those unfamiliar with these bands (that would be almost everyone, I'd wager), their sounds tend towards neo-psychadelic retro pop music. In varying degrees, their sounds often seem like different mixtures of the "B" section of their parents' record collections: The Beatles, The Byrds, The Beach Boys (from the psychotic Brian Wilson era), and Badfinger. Bit o' Beefhart, too, I suppose. Some of the bands are a bit more Badfinger; others are a bit more Smile and Pet Sounds.

[FlyingFish]

Really late entry into the voting pool...

One could argue that Stu didn't know any better than to be a jerk. One could use the same argument to say that the Skiffies didn't know any better than to call the vote then and there (after all, Rikk's never had to oust a member in his entire tenure, right?) I'm considering the ignorance argument irrelevant for said reason.

I'll argue in the other direction: Rikk definitely should have allowed himself to calm down before ousting the bum. With that said, <i>I've</i> had a week and I still think Stu has no place in the club.

I've been in communities before (largely online) where a newcomer seemed to be there only to disrupt. He or she would make inappropriate comments, or diss what we were doing in the group (then why the hell did you sign up?), or torture other members; and in all three cases s/he'd treat the ideals behind the organization as a low priority at best. Intentional? Maybe not, but as long as they were around and acting like that, those who were already there found themselves driven to rages they weren't aware they were capable of, and those who showed up later either wondered who the bozo was and didn't stay, or (even worse) decided that such behavior was acceptable.

I will grant this much to Stu, though. He should have gotten a single, firm warning before they vote him off; shape up or ship out. But seriously, he should have seen the way the wind was blowing long ago...

[Maccabee]

On 2002-04-04 16:21, Doublespeak wrote:

They might as well buy a potted plant and call it Stu. Well until one of the leaves touches Jackie's thigh, then it is out!

We actually had a potted plant in the William & Mary Skiffy Club. We elected it president in 1993, but the election was overturned on a technicality (it hadn't paid its dues and was therefore ineligible for office) and the incumbent (who finished second) returned to office.

Maccabee,
Official Skiffy genro

[Ray Radlein]

We actually had a potted plant in the William & Mary Skiffy Club. We elected it president in 1993, but the election was overturned on a technicality (it hadn't paid its dues and was therefore ineligible for office) and the incumbent (who finished second) returned to office.

When I was annointed Secretary of the Carolina Amiga Users Group, we got around that particular problem by the rule that Club Officers were exempt from annual dues. Beats me why, actually, but I wasn't about to complain, and no one else ever did, either, so I guess it was okay.

As far as I know, I am still the Secretary (if CAUSERS still even exists), despite the fact that we moved to Atlanta in 1993. The electoral process in CAUSERS moved by a kind of odd group consensus more akin to receiving the Mandate of Heaven than to any actual practice of democracy, and no one ever cared to replace me. When I was named Secretary, my job was to make up the minutes for each meeting, on the assumption that whatever I made up would probably be more interesting than whatever actually happened.

I guess that wouldn't work with the Skiffy Club.

[Doublespeak]

On 2002-04-05 10:39, Maccabee wrote:
We actually had a potted plant in the William & Mary Skiffy Club. We elected it president in 1993, but the election was overturned on a technicality (it hadn't paid its dues and was therefore ineligible for office) and the incumbent (who finished second) returned to office.

Second place to a plant huh? That person must have been the bud of many plant jokes for a while.

[Shatteredtower]

On 2002-04-06 02:09, Doublespeak wrote:

Second place to a plant huh? That person must have been the bud of many plant jokes for a while.

Sigh... Any chance that everyone else leaves this one alone?