Isaac Asmiov

Ray Radlein · Post by **Ray Radlein** » Tue Mar 12, 2002 11:17 pm

This seems strangely appropriate in light of the hospital scenes with Dotty, but Publisher's Weekly, in its review of Isaac and Janet Asimov's forthcoming memoir, It's Been a Good Life, mentions that Asimov evidently died as a result of complications from AIDS, contracted from a blood transfusion during heart surgery in 1983.

The March print edition of New Scientist also evidently mentions this fact.

If only blood screening had been as thorough in 1983 as it is today.

R Wyatt · Post by **R Wyatt** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 4:42 am

A great pity. He's the best sci-fi writer I've ever read, and by some weord coincidence, I'd bought Prelude to foundation about an hour ago. I'm going to have to get that book as soon as it comes out.

Maccabee · Post by **Maccabee** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 7:24 am

Christ. And that son of a bitch Jesse Helms makes speeches about how AIDS is the victims' own damn fault.

I am so glad that man is retiring.

Poor Isaac. God, I miss him. And he could still write so well, even at the end. I can't recommend "Gold" (his last Hugo-winning story, a novelete that's popped up in several story collections and anthologies) strongly enough. Especially for people who've ever done any work in film or theater. I don't want to say any more about the story than that.

Maccabee

Vitriol · Post by **Vitriol** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 7:55 am

In this country at least, you can pick up a collection entitled 'Gold'; where the story is the central piece.

It makes much more sense if you've read The Gods Themselves, one of his novels, first though.

Maccabee · Post by **Maccabee** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 11:04 am

True. However, I read "Gold" before The Gods Themselves and still had no trouble following it.

The Gods Themselves also won a Hugo, by the way.

Maccabee

Manticoraus · Post by **Manticoraus** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 2:45 pm

Who's Jesse Helms?

No offense Maccabee but for anyone catching now I generally hold that sentiment.

Ditto any STD (Chlamydia, Hepatitis A thru zz)

But it would be foolish to think or say only people who want AIDS get it. Just is 2002. You don't want government in your sex life don't make them excessively responsible for this.

(Sed ed has seemed to have the reverse effect on me. I'm following but not sympathetic)

FrustratedPilot · Post by **FrustratedPilot** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 5:55 pm

manticoraus wrote:
Who's Jesse Helms?

Right-wing career politician from North Carolina. They'll probably name an aircraft carrier after him.

Maccabee · Post by **Maccabee** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 7:17 pm

On 2002-03-14 14:45, manticoraus wrote:
Who's Jesse Helms?

No offense Maccabee but for anyone catching now I generally hold that sentiment.

Ditto any STD (Chlamydia, Hepatitis A thru zz)

But it would be foolish to think or say only people who want AIDS get it. Just is 2002. You don't want government in your sex life don't make them excessively responsible for this.

(Sed ed has seemed to have the reverse effect on me. I'm following but not sympathetic)

So people who get tainted transfusions are responsible? Spouses of carriers? Rape victims? People for whom the condom broke?

Yes, screening procedures in the US have improved since the 1980s. That isn't true everywhere in the world.

Incidentally, Jesse Helms did want to spend federal money to research heart disease. But heart disease isn't your own damn fault even if you eat fatty foods and let yourself get overweight (as Jesse Helms did) or smoke the tobacco they grow in North Carolina (Helms's home state). I kind of left out the hypocracy thing.

Now, I'm all for researching treatments for heart disease. I think as a society we have a responsibility to help people who want them get second chances even if they've behaved irresponsibly in the past.

Even if you had unprotected anal sex with a Haitian heroin addict I wouldn't want you to die a slow and painful death because of it. If we can prevent it -- well, that's our job.

I'm not personally offended by your position, but I feel compelled to disagree with it.

Gregory Eatroff

Shatteredtower · Post by **Shatteredtower** » Thu Mar 14, 2002 9:36 pm

On 2002-03-14 19:17, Maccabee wrote:

So people who get tainted transfusions are responsible? Spouses of carriers? Rape victims? People for whom the condom broke?

Just want to add one more - children who are born HIV positive. But I do agree with your sentiments.

Manticoraus · Post by **Manticoraus** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 7:16 am

Sigh.

Its because of children who are born HIV positive I'm not initially filled with an outpouring of sympathy towards my peers who have kids, STDs, or problems due to relationship issues that are if not caused at least heavily complicated by sex. There is more to this standard I hold than just blood screens. I've, again I've said this, gone through no less than five sex ed classes inbetween 1992-1999. I didn't have the worlds most stellar and gifted education. If someone my age or older can't figure out "choose partners carefully, use condoms and learn how, and watch for health" and ends up sick because of it I am not going to feel sorry for them. Btw I hear these practices were at large sold and preached among gay lesbian and bisexual community of the 80s and amazingly by 95 gay and bisexual men have been on the decline as victims. My lord imagine that. Say I'm generalising? Read anything not porn that's alternative sex educating literature. They will at least briefly mention aids, condoms use, and where to get more information. Perhaps its being the only professor of abstinance for a few years in school to willful and unignorant laughs by the stundents and teachers has me holding a grudge and so I make that cute self righteously content mental ka-ching with each red light on the you're gonna die from an oppurtunistic disease detector. But ignorance is never an excuse and my generation at least can no longer claim even that.

And yes BTW you'd be freakin' surprised the aware "rightwingedness" in my family. My mother's made plain after a certain age she doesn't want organ transplants or heavy medical treatment. They take away from people who have lives to live so at some point she's said: Let her go. Celebrate she's gone home and asks the she take care of herself whilst God overlooks her health. Seriously she recently just had a dream and is now insisting that everyone in her household make sure to get proper vitamin intake. She bought a formula or something for it. She reads up. She shared an article with me on raw foods.

I think regardless of the faith anyone to read this practices you can learn something from the above.

Overweightness runs throughout our family. I find obesity attractive. But I also know the likely consequences. My father has had a heart attack two years after being diagnosed with diabetes. It is after the fact but he's excercising and watching what he eats. My mother was ahead of him by several years and missed attempts. But since I tend to always like to look like I want to I generally don't put much effort into shapping up for appearance so much as how I feel comfortable with myself and my activities. This has bit me. I now bike to work and I swear there are times my heart may pop. My (bad)choice. My (not good) health. I heard plenty of messages and had plenty of opportunites to be physically active. I didn't chose them. I doubt if an 80+ lb kid drops over folks will blame everyone but him and how society doesn't handle blah blah right. Even if they didn't they'd be wrong I did make a choice I remember I even took time out of my day and said to myself "[RT] this is your choice follow it and blame no one else and learn about others and if you want another one change it. If you can do so"

As a society internet media(which I am not taking as a representative of international peoples but an easily observable influence on them) and american media really cashes toward the fantasy of sex without consequences or responsility.* (again another thing that the said "primary victims" of AIDS made quick to overcome. Nothings perfect but actual gay pornographers have taken stands on their "industry" to insist they promote safe sex. Again I'm saying this to not generalise I am not standard bisexual man as far as I can figure out what one is (does he resemble a slightly younger softer Gimli by way of Proffesor Arturo:)but this is the stuff I run across learning about how to care for myself deciding to be sexually active)

AIDS is NOT mostly caught by blood transfusionees. This is like the people jumped me and stabbed the needle in me hypothesis to drug addiction. Or they spiked my drinkk it was to alcohol related problems. ALL happen. But they are often born out of less "the obvious victim" people circumstances. Drug users who ended up there for a variety of reasons and idiot donators who don't read and answer the questions to the blood drive correctly after engaging in activities that lend toward making you sick. Did everyone but me miss TLC's Waterfalls? huh.

Uhm okay were you repressing the "I know not only people who want AIDS get it" part. Okay let me say I personally doubt there is anyone in the whole WORLD that wants to have AIDS. But if they personally fail at taking precautions neccessary to avoid it (or even educate themselves about it and go mob on the next infected) excuse me since they are are asking for the sympathy of the dying man I won't laugh at their face. But don't expect much in the realm of kind and nice reactions. Sex/intimacy can mean many varying degrees of seriousness but its "price" is always up high. If you are of my generation I trust one of the lectures of deciding how sexual you wanna be and for what and why got to you because they were unavoidable. Even if not its considerred "part of growing up." (again love that scene with Meighan and Harry)

Trust me, man, I certainly agree on the cigs. I so want to strangle yet hug the idiots who have are suing phillip morris for every collective dime they've put in the company upon the discovery of "Whoah I got ephesema or lung-throatcancer/had a stroke after smoking for sixty years and giving the bird to any objector to the habit." Sex doesn't come in a carefully marked age restricted (though we try really try) package saying this can kill you. Cigs do. Gawd are humans morons. Enjoy your smokes but don't ever in a million years think "oh my god how could this happen I didn't know oh how could I get lung can.. ooh need another pack of Camel's go get it for me I'm short of breath would ya son." I'm never working in a hospital with the patients they'd call DR. Death before baring my comforting solence one more time...or even half of the full.

If we put half the responsibilty-stigma on sex as say...mature drinking this wouldn't be a discussion. But nope sex is so all natural and essential to basic human experience something is wrong you're not having it. And society can't tell you how to practice it but should act responsible for it to extremes like near paying for abortions, adoptions, medical treatments, things that will remove responsibilty from the participants and interfence from those affected (yes what goes on in your bed room does involve the community just ask say.. the next victim of domestic abuse). Isn't that much more hypocritical? Its not research I'm objecting to, there is just a plain too much benefit to encouraging medical science pioneers to pioneer some good medicine to ignore encouraging good research. I hope to someday see the control and much better treatments for AIDS, which I have. But a cure...I'll just say I'll not try to directly contribute to loss of quality of life of HIV positives of the world by treating everyone fairly and kindly as I would normally by they HIV or Chlamidia, or gonoherhea (flee flee manticoraus is going for worst post ever record). Remain just as judgemental of them as I would if they were HIV negative but with just a pinch more compassion. And most importantly NOT JOIN THE RANKS.

There are circumstances outside of my control. I could get AIDS when it finally mutates in a more viral form (and thus is actually less of a black mark on humanity's collective idiot score entire nations lost to a disease not communicable by saliva). AIDS can come from needles or test vials of blood or transfusions, but there are numerous complications from surgeries. I AM NOT SAVING ASSIMOV SHOULDA DIED but I'd feel no worse nor better if said complication was clot or infection from exposure or failure to adequately perform surgery.

Again I knew two very nice kids who had no lives thanks to idiots that helped make AIDS an epidemic as it were. Kids born with AIDS to me are victims anyone my age I am fairly skeptical about. Though not to cruelty. Or at least I try not to be cruel.
--
*Faans rocks because how it doesn't trap to this idea nor go all psycho in "condemning" just pulls out that trusty mirror and reflect on all decisions. Rikks "first time" with Asilin was a hoot for both As's disturbing disconnectedness with the act and Rikk's confusion no matter how much porn. Or depending on your view. As's strong confidence and experience and Rikk's lacking so. OR again.. love that trusty mirror

to be editted alot I take it I'd best expect a boot and a bash soon.

Mephron · Post by **Mephron** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 2:02 pm

On 2002-03-15 07:16, manticoraus wrote:
(deletia)
to be editted alot I take it I'd best expect a boot and a bash soon.

Around here it takes quite a bit to get booted and bashed. While your spelling may not be world-class, I think you got the point of your opinions across quite well, and in a way that won't inflame people's rage.

KingLeon · Post by **KingLeon** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 6:48 pm

I kinda came close with my Pratchett-Piers rant... It still hangs heavy in my mind.

Catz Bartlett · Post by **Catz Bartlett** » Fri Mar 15, 2002 7:59 pm

Meh...no hard feelings, KL. I don't hold grudges, remember? ^_^

KingLeon · Post by **KingLeon** » Sat Mar 16, 2002 3:26 pm

It's a bloody good thing... As it is, one day, I'm gonna open my mouth and I'm going to get the beatdown from an angry Xanth/Diablo II/stat-based RPG/arcade game/Tolkien fan...

Shatteredtower · Post by **Shatteredtower** » Sat Mar 16, 2002 11:20 pm

On 2002-03-16 15:26, KingLeon wrote:
It's a bloody good thing... As it is, one day, I'm gonna open my mouth and I'm going to get the beatdown from an angry Xanth/Diablo II/stat-based RPG/arcade game/Tolkien fan...

Depends on how much anger or venom you display when you open your mouth, doesn't it?

Drooling Fan Girl · Post by **Drooling Fan Girl** » Sun Mar 17, 2002 7:57 am

I think both of you have well-though, well-reasoned opinions. And as long as neither of you somehow becomes inflamed over this very sesitive topic, you may find something worth thinking about from each other.

Take Care
DFG

Roscoe · Post by **Roscoe** » Sun Mar 17, 2002 2:04 pm

I would like to reply to one part of Manti's post, what he said about how society can't tell you what to do in the bedroom, just warn you of the extremes.

The impression I came away with was that Manti was advising regulation, or at least severe discouragement of, bedroom activity. At least of any that doesn't fit the style of the enforcers. I find this worrying.

And paying for an abortion does not remove responsibility. Dear god, it does NOT remove responsibility. You try raising $300 at 15 in less than three months after your parents tell you basically to go fuck yourself. That's a definite discouragement to do anything after you get the money, if you get the money.

Vitriol · Post by **Vitriol** » Sun Mar 17, 2002 2:15 pm

That assumes that you have to pay for the abortion; in many countries they are provided free; cost should not be a factor in determining whether a child should be born or not.

I believe that the emotional trauma suffered is much more of a deterrant than the money required.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Vitriol on 2002-03-17 14:18 ]</font>