Points to Shanna...

Charlie Radio · Post by **Charlie Radio** » Sun Dec 16, 2001 8:55 am

...for standing her ground. Hmm...I'm beginning to think she's a lot like me in some ways, although a lot of folks of the male persuasion find me intimidating, I'm told. Plus, I'm not so tall.------------------
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Caercutta · Post by **Caercutta** » Sun Dec 16, 2001 11:35 am

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Charlie Radio:
...for standing her ground.

Red Viking · Post by **Red Viking** » Mon Dec 17, 2001 1:00 am

I have to agree with Strangeone on this one. Right now, I wish Will would wipe that smug look off Shanna's face with some well placed words. Hell, she put Jackie in danger on PURPOSE just so that she could force Will's hand. I REALLY hope that whatever she has planned blows up in her face.------------------
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Charlie Radio · Post by **Charlie Radio** » Mon Dec 17, 2001 1:04 am

Have you ever been a freshman girl at a frat party? Well, I was once a freshman girl and I did attend parties with my freshman girl cohorts. While I have sadly known a few people who have been in unfortunate situations, the danger was not in simply being at the party, even with the expectation of meeting someone in particular.Jackie at least had the sense to go to the rush with people she knew (okay, granted they got very drunk), and chances are, at some point, she would have gone to a frat party as a freshman girl. And the thing with Stu...well, I feel like Stu was looking for any excuse to hit on Jackie. If he'd been around at some other point when the other guys were, he might well have been inclined to make a move.Okay, what Shanna did was underhanded (though I wouldn't say narcissistic so much as merely self-serving), but in order to determine whether she was actually putting Jackie in danger, we would have to determine whether she knew enough about Jackie to determine if she would be the type to lose control at a party or the type to exercize moderation and a degree of caution. Again, granted, terrible circumstances do happen, but remember that freshman girls do attend frat parties of their own volition.If we go back to Shanna's intentions, we know that she did not intend for Jackie to get hurt. What good would that do? It would draw Will even more tightly into his protector role, and separate him further from Shanna. No, Shanna's little thought bubble in the PO tells us that she simply hoped that Jackie would meet someone good enough to take her mind off Will. This would probably have to be someone honestly good in Shanna's estimation because, as we know, Shanna thinks Will is a really keen guy.I doubt that Shanna believes that her actions would have put Jackie in danger (for reasons described above), and with Will so intimate with his Humbert Humbert/Father/Protector role, I have a hard time assessing whether his reaction to learning that Jackie was at the rush (and with Stu) was appropriate or overdone. Anyway, if Jackie can take on spike-bearing LARPers on a mission, why wouldn't she be able a couple of zero-equilibrium frat boys. Will came on the scene before we were ever able to find out what Jackie would have done.Plus I suppose part of my "proud of Shanna" reaction stems from my tendency to take what Kath has to say as gospel truth lately. Who knows?Whoa, can anybody tell I just finished writing a philosophy paper? I tell you, finals fry your brain.

Tom the Fanboy · Post by **Tom the Fanboy** » Mon Dec 17, 2001 2:19 am

I'm pro-Shanna as well!I personally think that Will and Shanna is a great thing! Almost as great as wish and Will (you go girl!) but we can't have EVERYTHING now can we? Last week proved that.
*wink*I think that Shanna really didn't know how it would all work out but she knew that somehow it would step up the clock with Will and Jackie. I think that Will having to deal with Shanna mentally and verbally without resorting to a scheme or brute force or a "role" will be very, very good for him. He can't just sock her since she's a woman and she's too wily to be intimidated by him. Kath has taught her well and is going to have great time watching the student work.------------------
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Judy · Post by **Judy** » Mon Dec 17, 2001 3:04 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Red Viking:
And telling a pissed off brother that "I thought she could take care of herself" or "I never meant for this to happen" is downright suicide.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No argument on that point; I'd take the pissed-off boyfriend before the pissed-off older brother any day!Judy

Wish · Post by **Wish** » Mon Dec 17, 2001 5:25 am

I agree, Tom, Charlie! I don't think that Jackie was in as much trouble as Will made out. He DOES have a tendancy to over-exagerate and let the drama of the moment carry him away. Shanna is just handing out some tough love. Admitedly, it's tough love that could profit her if Will wakes up and smells the coffee, but it'll be good for him. And fun for us to watch. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/biggrin.gif">-Wish
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Dropjockey · Post by **Dropjockey** » Mon Dec 17, 2001 8:55 am

I was glad to see I was the only person who thought Will might be overexaggerating a little. I thought he was being ridiculous, myself. "How much *danger*" she was in? At a frat party? And this is Will, who has faced tanks and vampires and mind-control devices, saying this to Shanna, who has faced all the same things plus was kidnapped and subjected to psychological mistreatment in a secret underground government facility? But, oh yeah, *frat* parties, now we're talking real danger.But is thinking of frat parties as dangerous how a current fangeek college boy would think? I was in the science fiction club at my college only a couple of years ago, and I don't think we ever thought frat parties were dangerous... stupid, boring, and obnoxious, yes, but not dangerous. But I was at a small liberal arts college, so maybe at big universities frat parties really are dangerous (or seem that way to the geeks)?

Red Viking · Post by **Red Viking** » Mon Dec 17, 2001 9:03 am

Well, I don't HATE Shanna. I love how she's so devious all the time. I just think that she crossed the line on this one. She may have had good intentions, but that doesn't excuse what she did. We know enough about Jackie's character to know that she's, well, naive. If something DID happen to her, then we'd be blaming Shanna.------------------
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Shatteredtower · Post by **Shatteredtower** » Mon Dec 17, 2001 9:49 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by dropjockey:
I was glad to see I was the only person who thought Will might be overexaggerating a little. I thought he was being ridiculous, myself. "How much *danger*" she was in? At a frat party? And this is Will, who has faced tanks and vampires and mind-control devices, saying this to Shanna, who has faced all the same things plus was kidnapped and subjected to psychological mistreatment in a secret underground government facility? But, oh yeah, *frat* parties, now we're talking real danger.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>But there's the thing - a number of people perceive that as {i]real[/i] danger, as opposed to fantastic danger. To many of us, threats from vampiric secret agents are beyond the realm of possibility. The threat of sexual assault, sadly, is not.More important to several here is the fact that Shanna sent Jackie into a place where this was a potential risk. It's a risk that doesn't wait for frat parties, however, so I am not upset with Shanna for that. I am more upset by the fact that there are people who are completely unprepared for such dangers by the time they leave the house to go to enter university.I am disappointed with Shanna for not having been present for this event, however. I can tolerant her lack of understanding of the potential for danger here, but she had a responsibility to make sure nothing went out of hand in her scheme. It's a lot like why the villain shouldn't leave the hero dangling over certain doom and just walk away, you might say. You have a responsibility for foul-ups arising in your plans, so you should monitor them closely.
Then again, maybe she knew others who were going to be there, and trusted them to keep an eye on things. That is a vital factor, and since we don't have enough information to determine whether or not such was the case, it becomes a much harder judgement call for me.Therefore, I feel that Will is secure in his right to blow up at Shanna - no matter who went with Jackie, Shanna still should have been there for this. But I also feel that Will has a responsibility to blow up at UJ, who ignorantly put herself in such danger (not so much by going to the party, but by going around with a note that can be loosely translated as, "Hello, I am naive and even slightly gullible," or more crudely as, "Prey."I can't really say he was overreacting - he has not done physical injury to anyone, and I suspect Stu got over his attack quickly after the initial shock. Perhaps he isn't thinking clearly on the matter, though. He seems to assume that Jackie is incapable of taking care of herself, and, as of yet, does not seem to have done anything that would better enable her to do so. No matter how gallant that may make him seem to Jackie, or how it may make him feel about himself, I find it at least as unacceptable as Shanna's behaviour. I write this as the eldest of five children, and one who has known failure too often in the role as eldest. The best protection I ever could give, however, was whenever I gave them the ability to look out for themselves.

Judy · Post by **Judy** » Mon Dec 17, 2001 10:21 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Red Viking:
We know enough about Jackie's character to know that she's, well, naive. If something DID happen to her, then we'd be blaming Shanna.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Couple of thoughts:1) Shanna doesn't know Jackie nearly as well as we do -- remember, she wasn't around for most of the Rings spoof, and she was pretty distracted while she was. She may have thought Jackie could handle herself at a party -- after all, all Shanna's really seen thus far is Jackie leading Will around by his nose.2) Anybody think Shanna ever actually went to a frat party? I'd guess not. (Shoot, I didn't!) I'm not sure I understand Shanna's motivation in sending Jackie to the party, other than maybe rubbing Will's face in Jackie's, ah, less than completely reciprocal feelings for him. But I believe she's sincere about not having intentionally put anyone in danger.Judy

Red Viking · Post by **Red Viking** » Mon Dec 17, 2001 11:38 am

Duly noted, Judy.But Will and Jackie's relationship is like an older brother/younger sister one. Will has every right to be pissed at Shanna. He was afraid that Jackie was in danger. Had something happened to her, then Will would have blamed Shanna. And telling a pissed off brother that "I thought she could take care of herself" or "I never meant for this to happen" is downright suicide.------------------
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Strangeone · Post by **Strangeone** » Mon Dec 17, 2001 12:30 pm

Yeah, she stood her ground, but it doesn't excuse the fact that what she did was underhanded and could have put Jackie in serious danger. Will should be commended for what he did. Shanna's just being narcisistic. Why should she be praised?