Mundanes

NathanAlderman · Post by **NathanAlderman** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 2:23 am

In the world of Babylon 5, those creepy PsiCorps telepaths use the term "mundanes" to refer to ordinary humans. Perhaps since that's the first time I heard it used, I'm always slightly creeped out by that term.-- Nathan,
at a loss for words.

Muttley · Post by **Muttley** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 3:24 am

The Enchanted Duplicator (Walter Willis and Bob Shaw, 1954), begins"ONCE UPON A TIME in the village of Prosaic in the Country of Mundane there lived a youth called Jophan."(see <A HREF="http://www.fanac.org" TARGET=_blank>http://www.fanac.org</A> for the full text)Certainly, prior to this the non-fannish was referred to adjectivally as mundane, but it doesn't seem to have been in widespread use as a noun. It is possible that TED marked the beginning of this usage, as it was extremely widely distributed.Muttley
--
The earth is the cradle of human civilisation, but one cannot live in the cradle for ever.Konstantin Tsiolkovskii[This message has been edited by Muttley (edited 03-27-2001).]

Kouban no Hakase · Post by **Kouban no Hakase** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 6:52 am

I'm curious as to the origin of the word 'mundane' to describe someone who is not part of the s/f consuming/producing community. In Piers Anthony's Xanth books, people from plain old boring Earth (as opposed to people from the magical world of Xanth) were referred to as Mundanes. Was it in use before then, or was Anthony the one who set it off?

Wish · Post by **Wish** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 8:57 am

My current roleplay GM, an older and wiser fan, told me that PA 'borrowed' the term for this own use, and that fans had been using the term for a long time before Xanth came along. He conceded that PA might have been the one to name the Mundane world 'Mundania' but he said that he could not be sure.-Wish
Who is distressed at the idea that the only escape route from Mundania might be the entrance to Xanth *shudder*

FrustratedPilot · Post by **FrustratedPilot** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 9:36 am

I read in a book about Science Fiction written in the 1970s that "mundane" didn't mean a non-fan, it meant a person who only had a mild interest, as opposed to the "fiawol" and "gafia" crowds (fandom is a way of life/getting away from it all).

Maccabee · Post by **Maccabee** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 10:59 am

I prefer the term " 'Danelaw " to describe the world outside fandom. Maybe it's the historian/punster in me.------------------
Risus est telum ultimum contra tyrranem. Nullus dictator exercitibus allibus ridiculem vulgi longe resistare potest.

Kouban no Hakase · Post by **Kouban no Hakase** » Wed Mar 28, 2001 6:41 am

As far as political correctness goes, calling someone a mundane is retaliation for them having called you a geek.

Doublespeak · Post by **Doublespeak** » Wed Mar 28, 2001 7:45 am

Oh so if someone calls me an ethnic slur, I should just answer back with one? That makes it right? You racist elitist Dastard! How dare you wall out mundane scum from becoming part of the glory that is fandom with your elitist and mundane-like comments. Those unimaginative loser mundanes must be welcomed with open arms, and we must encourage them to join us and escape the meaninglessness of their unkempt excuse for lives!ha, first post.

Tom the Fanboy · Post by **Tom the Fanboy** » Wed Mar 28, 2001 8:27 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Murasaki:
Mundane sounds kind of eletist, but when you get down to it... {braces to be bombarded by flaming}<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Napalm online sir......Nah, I'm not that bad. I do think that using such terminoligy is partially elitist, but in a rather tongue in cheek way. I know that I use like that. I usually refer to people as mundanes so that my fellow fen will not totally lose them in conversation and/or understand when they get confused. I personally first heard the term used in "Dork Tower". It was used by the goth-vampire LARPers to refer to non-gamers that were present at the location. I carried it into my LARP and it worked well. We turned the LARP rule "Be mindful of others." into "Don't freak the mundanes." I think that it's fine to refer to others as mundanes as long as you don't take yourself too seriously. The most serious I've taken my fandom was when I had a Fanboy Duel with Mr. Nash. He was trying to force the issue of his comic collection (lots of "Oh My Goddess" and another title, 5 boxes) while I tried to explain to him that being a better fanboy in one area doesn't win the crown (not the Theorizer Crown, you can relax). You have to give props to EVERYTHING you love. Though I did give him proper respect for his collection.I've realized upon getting into this culture how little I really know. I hear tons of names that I don't recognize, books I've never read, artists whose work I can't ever remember seeing...... It's the little fish syndrome. Back in little Forest Grove I was the biggest Star Wars officianado around (there was a guy with more stuff, but he was a prep and the RICHEST Star Wars Fan). Now that I'm in fandom online I'm realizing just how little I know. I mean, I'm totally obsessed with Harley Quinn but I can't even remember the titles of her musical numbers, let alone the lyrics! I guess I'm rambling on and on about this because it's been on my chest for a long long time. Oh, and I haven't been online since Friday, when I left for my Spring Break vacation. I'm in the Red Bank Public Library right now paying $1/half hour for the connection. I'm having a ball with Vallie and It'll all be made public when we get our site up. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif">See you then all!
(Czhorat tommorrow and Godai Saturday)Oh, and Murasaki. Tell the gang I got their presents already.------------------
Tom the Fanboy
http://www.geocities.com/tee-moss
The House of Tee-Moss, home of Billberg University and the Pop Subversion League.

Psycho · Post by **Psycho** » Thu Mar 29, 2001 5:06 am

Doesn't mundane mean ordinary, or normal?
There is a large percentage of the population who would rather read a fashion mag than either fantasy or sci-fi. Then again, there are those who would rather not read at all.I'm under the impression that sci-fi tends to be disliked by non-sci-fi readers because of the type of exposure people get. Either they get the 'Flash Gorden/Buck Rodgers'(no offence to anyone who likes the series) idea, where there's loads of technology, but it's never fully explained, if at all, or if it is it's completely made up half the time, or they get exposed to the technical or bizarre stuff too early and become intimidated. (Think an average fifth grader who's not truely dedicated trying to understand college level quantum physics).
Also, for some types of sci-fi (in films at least) walking in half-way will confuse many.[This message has been edited by Psycho (edited 03-29-2001).]

Doublespeak · Post by **Doublespeak** » Thu Mar 29, 2001 7:36 am

Well here is an idea, you all join me and we start a militia of sci-fi/fantasy/comic fans, it will be called: FANS! That

Kouban no Hakase · Post by **Kouban no Hakase** » Thu Mar 29, 2001 8:01 am

First post! Congratulations! Good thing I read all your other first posts first. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif">I don't mean 'retaliation' as in trading name-calling back and forth... I mean that that's why the word exists. I've never heard someone called a mundane to their face as an insult. It's very tongue-in-cheek, and the word isn't used around non-fans themselves, only among fans who want to let off some steam about the rest of the world's lack of understanding when it comes to anything that remotely resembles science fiction.Why don't people like science fiction anyways? Why don't science fiction movies win Oscars for anything but special effects and costumes and makeup? Why do people who watch soap operas, of all things, claim that science fiction just isn't "realistic" enough for them? Why is it more socially acceptable to fantasize about beautiful people having scandalous affairs in their big fancy houses and generally acting like clueless idiots when it comes to human relationships, but it isn't okay to read stories about spaceships and robots and unicorns?

Kouban no Hakase · Post by **Kouban no Hakase** » Thu Mar 29, 2001 8:07 am

I forgot to add: 'mundane' is not an exclusionary term. When the big dumb jocks and the prom queens call you a nerd, they're saying you're not part of their crowd. Any 'mundane' who can identify with the s/f fan mindset, and is open-minded enough to not call the fans 'nerds', is not a real mundane. The word is more accurately applied to the jocks and clothes-horses who find it utterly impossible to see outside of their own little bubble-worlds. Anyone who wants to be something more than mundane just automatically... is.

Kouban no Hakase · Post by **Kouban no Hakase** » Fri Mar 30, 2001 4:30 am

Psycho wrote:

Doesn't mundane mean ordinary, or normal? There is a large percentage of the population who would rather read a fashion mag than either fantasy or sci-fi. Right. Apathy, lack of imagination, and inability or unwillingness to think about great things are the norm in our society. Anyone who steps outside that norm, regardless of whether or not they read science fiction, cannot fairly be called 'mundane'. Even though they don't watch the same TV shows or read the same books as we do, they're kindred spirits.

Muttley · Post by **Muttley** » Fri Mar 30, 2001 4:31 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by FrustratedPilot:
I read in a book about Science Fiction written in the 1970s that "mundane" didn't mean a non-fan, it meant a person who only had a mild interest, as opposed to the "fiawol" and "gafia" crowds (fandom is a way of life/getting away from it all).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The opposite of fiawol is fijagh - "just a goddam hobby". Gafia is what you do when you burn out./Flame OnMy Shorter Oxford says
mundane, adj.
1 dull, routine.
2 of this world; worldly.The fannish use of "mundane" is derogatory. How would you like being called "dull"? For me it evokes a picture of adolescent, arrogant smugness that I find completely detestable. I can't use the word in its fannish context at all. What makes it worse is that it is used with relish by worst of the "fans-are-slans" types./Flame OffKouban no Hakase wrote: Why don't people like science fiction anyways?Why is SF/fantasy not mainstream literature? Because it takes an unusual flexibility of imagination to identify with the characters and situations; the mainstream is the mainstream because most people can "get it".Psycho wrote: - Then again, there are those who would rather not read at all.It is continually shocking to realise that the average number of books per household is (I believe) a single-digit number. We have over 1000; how many households must have none at all?Speaking of slans - - - Muttley
muttering and obscure - prepare to be ignored to death, sir!
[This message has been edited by T Campbell (edited 03-31-2001).]

Kouban no Hakase · Post by **Kouban no Hakase** » Fri Mar 30, 2001 11:26 am

Muttley wrote:

Why is SF/fantasy not mainstream literature? Because it takes an unusual flexibility of
imagination to identify with the characters and situations; the mainstream is the mainstream because most people can "get it".
My personal belief is that imagination and flexibility thereof are things that everyone has. It's just a matter of wanting to use them, which currently isn't 'cool'. I admire anyone who shows the slightest inclination towards being uncool in this manner. Anyone who shuns imagination and makes fun of its practitioners is going to be called a lot worse things than mundane, in my book.

T Campbell · Post by **T Campbell** » Sat Mar 31, 2001 9:46 am

Ah, yes, the old debate.Shanna is very unusual among people I know in that she actually CALLS herself a mundane. Most people seem to feel they're imaginative enough. And even the card-carrying hardcore fans usually have a threshold somewhere... "Well, sure, I watch every episode of VOYAGER repeatedly, dress up and suchlike, but I'm not one of those guys who LARPs as my favorite character for 24-hour stretches."Probably grist for an interesting story somewhere down the road...

Czhorat · Post by **Czhorat** » Tue Apr 03, 2001 1:10 am

A few notes:First off, I agree with Muttley that the use of the word "Mundane" is derogatory. I sometimes slip and use it myself (don't any of you DARE tell Karen that I applied it to her - I really do care about her despite not sharing all the same hobbies). It IS possible for someone to be bright and creative, yet channel that intelligence and creativity in a direction other than SF and fantasy. I suspect that it's almost as much a factor of what one is exposed to as a youth as it is anything else.It's sadly ironic that a group as misunderstood as we Fans feel that we are turn around and harshly label anyone who DOESN'T share our hobby. I suspect that part of it is a misdirected defence mechanism, and part is a desire to be part of an "in" crowd. Still, it can be an ugly thing. I'm sincerely sorry for the times I take part in it.

Tom the Fanboy · Post by **Tom the Fanboy** » Tue Apr 03, 2001 11:29 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Murasaki:
Actually, I think I understand how Shanna feels about the whole thing. In school, I was an outcast (well, after middleschool at least, but I wasn't "popular"),<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hmmmmm......
I think you forgot about the whole group of us that were collectively picked on. C'mon man, sure the gang wasn't "popular" but we did have social lives. It takes more than one hand to count the people that we hung out with. If you feel that none of our comraderie in Highs School was worth while I kinda wonder how you feel about the guys now.I hope it's not as bad as it sound man.------------------
Tom the Fanboy
http://www.geocities.com/tee-moss
The House of Tee-Moss, home of Billberg University and the Pop Subversion League.