Hammer Space in the purse

FrustratedPilot · Post by **FrustratedPilot** » Wed Feb 28, 2001 9:02 am

A mace? Why not that collapsable mace that Case carried in the first third of "Neuromancer"--the Cobra?(I still have never seen the film version of Johnny Mnemonic, to shame. I can guess that The Matrix is better by light years, tho'.)

Psycho · Post by **Psycho** » Thu Mar 01, 2001 6:15 am

Sadly though, Johnny Mnemonic isn't really that great a flick. Case was turned into a clone of teenage mutant ninja turtles' April O'neil. She couldn't fight, had to be rescued by Johnny, and didn't even have the inset mirrorshades or the retractable claws... The gladitorial combat on the killing floor (is that what it's called? It's been a while.) was eliminated.
An entirely made up subplot involving a computer born disease took center stage.
On the other hand, it looks like the computer system on the ship in the Matrix could have been based on Jone's setup.

FrustratedPilot · Post by **FrustratedPilot** » Thu Mar 01, 2001 7:59 am

I was in the middle of a reply when the Internet Movie Database site crashed my browser! Those @$#-wipes!You don't mean Case, you mean Molly (renamed Jane for the movie--sheesh!). Case was the hacker in "Neuromancer".I see neither "Count Zero" nor "Neuromancer" ever got released as movies. "New Rose Hotel" did--it seems to a tepid reception. (Hoping "The Winter Market" does find its way to film sometime...)

NathanAlderman · Post by **NathanAlderman** » Thu Mar 01, 2001 8:42 am

If you've never seen Johnny Mnemonic, everything you need to know about the movie can be crystallized to a single scene: Keanu Reeves in a business suit, standing on top of a flaming pile of garbage, and shouting to the heavens, "I WANT ROOM SERVICE!!!"If you're guessing it's nowhere near as Gibson's prose work, you'd be right. Let's just say that for years after we saw it, my brother and I would quote back and forth to each other, in Keanuspeak, the immortal line "I want to get out of this rathole! I need to get online! I NEED a COMPUTER!"(snicker)If you need to slake a thirst for cinematic Gibson, check out <A HREF="http://www.movie-page.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.movie-page.com</A> 's scripts section for a Gibson-penned "Neuromancer" script. There's also a draft he did for Alien 3-- nothing like the final version-- which is, I kid you not, one of the most heebie-jeebie-inducing things I've ever read.-- Nathan,
who gives you three guesses as to how he spent his Web-surfing time in college[This message has been edited by NathanAlderman (edited 03-01-2001).]

Maccabee · Post by **Maccabee** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 7:43 am

Bizzaro world? To Hell with Bizzaro world, if you really want to melt your brain go to Keanu World!Let's look at Keanu World's recent history:KEANU WORLD -- A scientist discovers how to extract hydrogen from water, prompting all sorts of nasty powerful people to hunt him down for the secret (Chain Reaction --well, the trailers for it, anyway. I just couldn't get past the stupidity of that concept because in the...REAL WORLD -- A scientist discovers how to extract hydrogen from water, c. 1807. The secret: hit it with an electric current (peers cautiously over shoulder for bad guys so incompetent they can't even Kill Keanu Reeves).KEANU WORLD -- He has to rescue his bodyguard.REAL WORLD -- Bodyguards rescue their clients. In cyberpunk novels, they have lots of built in gear to do so.KEANU WORLD -- A computer that apparently watched Total Recall and Terminator too many times hooks up human beings to itself as batteries.REAL WORLD -- thanks to those pesky laws of physics and the biochemistry based on those laws, you have to pump more energy into a living organism than it can supply to an outside source. It needs some of the energy to extract the rest, and a lot to sustain its own systems. Still, it wouldn't have been much of a story if Keanu Reeves was trying to free geothermal energy from an evil computer's domination, now would it?I hate The Matrix. I hate the illogical premise, I hate the excessive violence, I hate the casual way the "good guys" slaughtered the people they said they were trying to free, I hated the lack of serious philosophy, I hated the derivative nature of the film (Terminator meets Total Recall meets Buck Rodgers meets The Last Dragon with dribs and drabs of other things mixed in), and most of all I hate the notion that Keanu Reeves is the (cyber)messiah!!(This rant has been brought to you by the letters F, chai, and the number i. Sesame Street is a production of the Children's Television Workshop, not that that has anything to do with anything.)------------------
Risus est telum ultimum contra tyrranem. Nullus dictator exercitibus allibus ridiculem vulgi longe resistare potest.

Czhorat · Post by **Czhorat** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 8:12 am

Wasn't there another thread in which we all confessed our hatred for The Matrix? I agree with you on pretty much all counts. For me, it surpassed ID4 as the worst sf movie that everyone else incomprensibly loved. For the record, I don't mind violence in movies so long as there's a point to it. I also don't really mind pointless, silly movies. What drives me nuts is pointless violence, or a stupid pointless movie that makes the mistake of trying to take itself seriously. The really unfortunate thing about all this is that people know I'm an sf fan, so they expect me to like this tripe and to be delighted that it's getting mainstream exposure. When I explain that real sf is much, much better than that, I get lots of blank looks. *shrug*

Judy · Post by **Judy** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 8:42 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
KEANU WORLD -- A computer that apparently watched Total Recall and Terminator too many times hooks up human beings to itself as batteries.REAL WORLD -- thanks to those pesky laws of physics and the biochemistry based on those laws, you have to pump more energy into a living organism than it can supply to an outside source. It needs some of the energy to extract the rest, and a lot to sustain its own systems.
[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes! Thank you! I knew I couldn't be the only person in the world who got hung up on that one. That one little bit of junk science ruined an otherwise moderately enjoyable watching-things-blow-up movie experience for me. (I'm not particularly fond of Keanu, but there were some great visuals in that movie.)I still think it would have been a lot cooler if the sentient computers were using the human brains as processors. It makes way more sense than using them as freakin' batteries, and there's some interesting irony as well. While I'm revved up, anybody else prefer martial arts movies where the laws of physics are obeyed?Judy

NathanAlderman · Post by **NathanAlderman** » Fri Mar 02, 2001 9:19 am

I'm gonna stick my neck out here and defend The Matrix-- MOST of it, anyway.I agree with y'all wholeheartedly about the lobby shootout. It's my least favorite scene in the movie, it makes me uncomfortable and sad no matter how many times I watch it, and I think the filmmakers' attempts to justify and defend it are irresponsible. Those murdered guards could have just as easily been wounded or knocked unconscious-- shooting them simply looked cooler.That said, I have to disagree on the human battery issue. Remember, the recycled dead were fed to the living. So sure, there would have been the need for an initial input of energy, but after that, especially on so large a scale, you can make the case that it might be a self-sustaining system. As far as Keanu goes, the man can act on occasion. See "The Gift" if you don't believe me (and guys, it has Katie Holmes sans clothing, albeit for stupid and completely gratuitous reasons.) I think The Matrix was one of his better efforts. I love that defiantly silly kung-fu pose he strikes in the Subway, or his Zen-like calm as he defends himself from Agent Smith one-handed. And hey, if you just found out your entire life was a lie, wouldn't you be a little stiff and understated too?The Matrix is as viscerally exciting a film as any I've seen, one that in my opinion demonstrates a respect for its characters and its audience most action movies don't even attempt. Trinity is one of the strongest, most evenhanded female characters I've ever seen in an action movie. Hugo Weaving makes a heck of a villain, from his clever imitation of synthesized speech patterns to that great scene with Laurence Fishburne where his inhuman facade starts to crack. As for the improbable physics... the first time I saw the trailer online, I thought to myself, "Cool! It's like a John Woo movie, without that pesky law of gravity!"Sorry if I'm rambling. I've seen the movie maybe a jillion times, and never initally expected to like it as much as I do. All I'm saying is, like it or not, there have been plenty of movies made that were worse and more insulting than "The Matrix."-- Nathan,
zipping up his flame-retardant suit.

Gwalla · Post by **Gwalla** » Sat Mar 03, 2001 4:56 am

I liked The Matrix, because they blowed the stuffs up real good. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/tongue.gif"> I dunno, it was entertaining, but not half as smart as some people think. Three things that really bothered me:1) Using humans as batteries. Possibly the most inefficient energy source since making hamsters run in wheels.2) "But it was us that scorched the sky. At the time the machines were dependent on solar power..." No sun -> no photosynthesis -> no oxygen. Uh oh.3) The lightning shooting around the generator complex. Talk about wasting energy! Haven't the machines ever heard of wires?And the silly stuff:1) the bald spoon-boy's accent. What was up with that?2) Why does Trinity love Neo? He's done nothing but act like a doofus and stare blankly at people for the entire movie! "I can see why she likes you," says the Oracle. Great, could you explain it to us?3) Sequels. C'mon, the guy is Jesus now! He's invulnerable and omnipotent! What sort of threat can the agents pull off, insulting his mother?I actually thought the moral cop-out (the whole "some people can't let go" thing) was kind of clever. And it mirrors the gnostic division of people into hylic (matter-centered, unredeemable), psychic (mind-centered, capable of lesser redemption through faith), and pneumatic (soul-centered, capable of gnosis). I was kind of disappointed that they didn't take advantage of (or even give lip service to) the possibility of a Phil K. Dick-style double-twist.------------------
"Sun Ra? He's out to lunch, all right...same place I eat at!"
- George Clinton[This message has been edited by gwalla (edited 03-05-2001).]

Tuscahoma · Post by **Tuscahoma** » Sat Mar 03, 2001 5:50 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by NathanAlderman:
I agree with y'all wholeheartedly about the lobby shootout. It's my least favorite scene in the movie, it makes me uncomfortable and sad no matter how many times I watch it, and I think the filmmakers' attempts to justify and defend it are irresponsible. Those murdered guards could have just as easily been wounded or knocked unconscious-- shooting them simply looked cooler.That said, I have to disagree on the human battery issue. Remember, the recycled dead were fed to the living. So sure, there would have been the need for an initial input of energy, but after that, especially on so large a scale, you can make the case that it might be a self-sustaining system.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You know, it's funny. A friend saw the Matrix and hated it because ultimately, the movie seemed to say that violence was the answer. Another friend hated the lobby scene because of all of the previous action movies with scenes where the hero never gets hit.I think that the lobby scene was a commentary on action movies. It was so over the top, and the only way the hero could survive was because it was all a video game. I do think they could have done something to avoid killing real people, though. Oh, and the violence didn't really solve the ultimate problem of dealing with the agents.As for the battery thing, I wondered when I saw that if the Machines were simply lying and in the sequels we'll find out the real reason people are kept around.--Tuscahoma------------------
"The empires of the future
are the empires of the mind."
--Winston Churchill

Jen Aside · Post by **Jen Aside** » Sat Mar 03, 2001 6:37 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Maccabee:
I hate The Matrix. I hate the illogical premise, I hate the excessive violence, I hate the casual way the "good guys" slaughtered the people they said they were trying to free...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Oh, Face/Off tops that, by far. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/redface.gif"> I think four people out of a hundred survived that. Then again, it wasn't so sci-fi...

Psycho · Post by **Psycho** » Sat Mar 03, 2001 10:20 am

I dunno, I think the Matrix was actually an action flick posing as sci-fi. Yes, there was a lot of technology, but it seemed to serve as a vehicle/excuse for the fight scenes. Which were the bits people tended to like. Possibly the "cool toys/I wanna do that" concept...
(also, sorry about mangling the continuty with Case and Molly/Jane. As I said, it's been a while.)

NathanAlderman · Post by **NathanAlderman** » Sun Mar 04, 2001 6:26 am

Hey, Face/Off is John Woo. An absurdly high body count comes with the territory. (If you've ever seen Hard Boiled, you'll understand this. And if you haven't, go rent it ASAP and watch it with friends.)Now, if you want the REAL king of cinematic body count, look no further than my fellow Texan (and San Antonian at that!) Robert Rodriguez. Seems like in his movies, the only people allowed to be left standing at the end are the hero and the girl. Everyone else-- the wacky sidekick, the lovable street urchin-- EVERYONE gets it. Which makes me wonder about his upcoming family action film, "Spy Kids"...And in response to an earlier question about why Trinity fell in love with Neo... it's just destiny. Besides, a quick scan of my high school memories reveals dozens of bright, attractive, intelligent women who latched themselves on to lunkheads with all the charisma of a block of wood. (=-- Nathan,
who once met Roger Ebert and called him "Gene Siskel." AFTER Siskel had died.

Maccabee · Post by **Maccabee** » Sun Mar 04, 2001 8:23 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by NathanAlderman:
I'm gonna stick my neck out here and defend The Matrix-- MOST of it, anyway.That said, I have to disagree on the human battery issue. Remember, the recycled dead were fed to the living. So sure, there would have been the need for an initial input of energy, but after that, especially on so large a scale, you can make the case that it might be a self-sustaining system.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>"A self-sustaining system"? There ain't no such animal. Entropy increases, dude. We're only lasting on Earth because a massive amount of outside energy is being pumped into the system from an outside source (the sun).On to biology. Our basic source of energy is sugar. Using oxygen, we break it down into carbon dioxide and water and use the energy from those snapped molecular bonds to power our bodies. Plants absorb energy from the sun and store it by assembling carbon dioxide and water into sugar and giving off molecular oxygen as waste. You don't just need biomass, you need more energy constantly pumped into the system to keep the process going.The machines could use thermal energy from the Earth's mantle -- but if they could draw on that, why the middle-man?The science in The Matrix just plain sucked. If you're watching it for super-duper martial arts, explosions, and body-count, fine. I'm just insulted that they think so little of their audience that they'd try to convince us that this was thoughtful science fiction instead of just another special-effects laden action movie. I've seen it all before, and better.For instance, Dark City wasn't brilliant, but it dealt with a lot of the same issues The Matrix wanted to deal with, and generally did so more intelligently. Besides, the phallic imagery in the big fight scene was just hysterical -- I almost fell out of my chair laughing when we watched it in my film class. Plus Riff-Raff was in it. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif">------------------
Risus est telum ultimum contra tyrranem. Nullus dictator exercitibus allibus ridiculem vulgi longe resistare potest.

Stig Hemmer · Post by **Stig Hemmer** » Sun Mar 04, 2001 11:45 am

I kinda like most movies, including Johnny Mnemonic and the Matrix.Now, JMn was probably a butchering of the Gibsons work by that name, but fortunately I never read that.The movie had humor, it had a high "grim and gritty" factor. There was action, there was boy meets girl, there was a dolphin. Not a great movie, but I liked it.Over to the Matrix. Then it had some more action. Oh, lets not forget the explosions! And slo-mo martial arts... Ahhh...And of course agent Smith. One of the better "not quite human" performances I ever saw. Oscar-worthy if you ask me.And the Oracle. I loved the Oracle.There were some heroes as well. But you know how it is with heroes. Boring stiffs, most of them. These had style, though.And then, finally, the science part of this "science fiction movie". It sucked. Nuff said. Personally, I was able to suspend my disbelief, but just barely. The part I find hardest to swallow in these kind of stories, books and movies alike, is the notion that you can't just unplug if the virtual world bothers you. No no, you have to have an "exit" of some kind. Nobody else seems to mind that.------------------
Stig Hemmer, at your disservice.

Czhorat · Post by **Czhorat** » Mon Mar 05, 2001 6:04 am

YAY! Now I know what you guys are talking about here!For the record, her tone makes it seem unlikely that she has an actual skull-crushing type mace or other form of big hammer (not that that wouldn't be cook in a Bugs Bunny sort of way). My suspicion is that she doesn't actually have mace, a mace, or any other conventional sort of weapon. Her statement that she does have mace could be a desperate attempt to stall for time, even if it's only a second or two. What will she do with those extra seconds? I don't know. She might not know. Maybe she'll try to poke one in the eye with her lipstick. Maybe she has the die buried in there and will use it to wish them away. Whatever the solution, without the extra second she'd be caught NOW. So she does the only thing she can; stall for time until she can think up a better solution.That's my guess.

Nodrog · Post by **Nodrog** » Mon Mar 05, 2001 6:08 am

She's waiting for Shanna to get out the 23 sider of power and start doing to those FIB agents what Rumy is doing to Hyperman.Nodrog "Pretty sure about this guess" Skrap

Tuscahoma · Post by **Tuscahoma** » Mon Mar 05, 2001 7:16 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Nodrog:
She's waiting for Shanna to get out the 23 sider of power and start doing to those FIB agents what Rumy is doing to Hyperman<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You know, for a second I wondered if Kate had the 23-sider. I went <a href="http://faans.com/d/20010223.html">back to look</a>, but apparently Shanna tossed it into her purse and at no point did the two switch purses. Still, wouldn't THAT be cool. Who knows, maybe in the struggle she'll be able to get it from Shanna and do something. Till then, maybe the mace will work. Or maybe she told them it was mace and actually has something else (make them duck cover their faces and instead hit them with a taser or something).--Tuscahoma------------------
"The empires of the future
are the empires of the mind."
--Winston Churchill[This message has been edited by Tuscahoma (edited 03-05-2001).]

FrustratedPilot · Post by **FrustratedPilot** » Mon Mar 05, 2001 9:05 am

Godai, You made the call. Kath has officially gone @pe-$#!%.You may gloat now. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">

Stig Hemmer · Post by **Stig Hemmer** » Mon Mar 05, 2001 11:54 am

Bang on, Godai! Amaceing...------------------
Stig Hemmer, at your disservice.