I've always wanted a forum...

Fletcherscave · Post by **Fletcherscave** » Tue Dec 12, 2000 7:37 am

Hello all,Well, I finally have my own little forum! Ever since I started my strip, I've been aching for feedback from anyone who wanted to offer it. I've joined KSCritics for formal critique. I post regularly to the main KeenSpace forum, asking any question that comes to mind. And, believe me, I have other things I *should* be doing...So, I invite any and all responses to my strip, my site, whatever. Positive or negative, all responses are golden.Hope to see some posts soon,Later!------------------
MAC
"Fletcher's Cave"
fletcherscave.keenspace.com

Rtist54 · Post by **Rtist54** » Wed Dec 13, 2000 1:21 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by fletcherscave:

And you know something--one thing the syndicates hated was the "unlined"-"unparallel" lettering. In a lot of ways, that's my favorite part! (At least, it makes it easier to fit in the punchlines around people's heads.)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That's nuts!!!!! I hate when people with upper power have lousy opinions!!!!! My best way of describing how good it looks, is this... Any person can draw a bad drawing, but when enough skill is developed, a talented artist can get away with what would be considered a bad drawing, because he knows how to make it good. That's probably confusing. Let me try another way.....Before an artist can be successful at making a minimalist drawing, that is, a drawing with as few lines as possible, he must understand how to make a drawing with perfect proportion, line quality, etc. Then, he can be able to decide, where to place every single line. Boxjam is the perfect keenspace example of this. Anyways, That's what I see when I look at your lettering. You could make your text straight and traditional, but your good enough at that you don't have to. And you're so good at it, that you can make evreything so uneven that it looks good. in my opinion, that guy who criticized your lettering, is an idiot and should die. Okay, so maybe he's not an idiot. FINE!!!! He shouldn't die either. But you know what I mean.By the way, thanks for the fash illus. compliments. I am really starting to get involved with that. My future, if not cartooning, may have something to do with Fashion illustration, hopefully one of the two or even both. I drew that secretary with Pencil and Ink, and then did two color versions. One with the trusty gradient tool of Photoshop, and one with my beloved Prismacolor Markers. Thanks Again,Pauly------------------
Any artist can call their piece "Untitled", but there's only one <A HREF="http://untitledagain.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>Untitled Again</A>.

Fletcherscave · Post by **Fletcherscave** » Wed Dec 13, 2000 5:34 am

Pauly,So, what do you like coloring with best--markers or Photoshop? ------------------
MAC
"Fletcher's Cave"
fletcherscave.keenspace.com

Rtist54 · Post by **Rtist54** » Wed Dec 13, 2000 8:56 am

I like photoshop a lot because it's easier, and it's up to date in the ad/fashion marketing era, but there is just something more personal and lively about using the markers. It makes it easier to see that I did the work. At least in my opinion. I think the only real benefit from using photoshop, is that you can protect the outlines. If you break it, you can erase it. Or you can simply select the inside of the outlines and have the sloppiest stroke ever without actually ever breaking those outlines. But still, there is something magical about doing it without the aid of the computer. I'm sure you understand what I'm talking about. So if I was unclear, I prefer the markerand I forgot to mention that I also used colored pencil on those. Boy do I talk a lot!!!!!!Pauly ------------------
Any artist can call their piece "Untitled", but there's only one <A HREF="http://untitledagain.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>Untitled Again</A>.

Rtist54 · Post by **Rtist54** » Wed Dec 13, 2000 9:56 am

Hey Buddy,Well, you know what I think. But I'll say it again. AWESOME!!!!!! Excellent characters. Line Quality of a Master. Fantastic Humor. Unbelieveable composition. Professional Lettering, I especially like that the text is not so straight. Beautiful contrast of Black to White. Ultimately, It's Awesome!!!!!! Nice job man.Pauly
------------------
Any artist can call their piece "Untitled", but there's only one <A HREF="http://untitledagain.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>Untitled Again</A>.

Fletcherscave · Post by **Fletcherscave** » Wed Dec 13, 2000 12:35 pm

Thanks for the praise, Pauly. I work hard at getting the balance between black and white to look...well, balanced. Now I've got to work on backgrounds and full-figure panels. Gotta grow, gotta grow...And you know something--one thing the syndicates hated was the "unlined"-"unparallel" lettering. In a lot of ways, that's my favorite part! (At least, it makes it easier to fit in the punchlines around people's heads.)By the way, caught your fashion pics on the "Untitled" site. I especially like the blonde looking over the clipboard. I haven't done any sort of work like that since my graphic art/school days (and never really got it look as good as your sample)...and my stuff was mostly in gouache. (I never really successfully combined gouache and inks, though. Never really tried...hmmm...and now we have Photoshop...)Thanks again for the kind words, and by golly, now I''ve got myself a *real* forum. Oh, yeah.------------------
MAC
"Fletcher's Cave"
fletcherscave.keenspace.com

Rtist54 · Post by **Rtist54** » Mon Dec 18, 2000 2:06 am

<CENTER>
Pauly's Girl:I don't think we'll be meeting Pauly's girl too soon. I may put her voice in on the phone every once in a while or something like that.Coloring:I never really keep track of time when I color. I just go with the flow. I have a lot more fun doing it by hand than doing it by computer. I have yet to hand color an Untitled Again strip, and I don't think I will too soon, cuz I kinda like it black and white. Computer Fonts:I think this depends on the comic. My stuff, I don't think, can get away with computer fonts. It'll just looks cheesy with my style. Some people can really pull it off though. I recently used it with my Dr. Seuss tribute strip and even then it didn't look too good in my opinion. I only did that, because it reminded me of Dr.Seuss's book style. Again, I really have fun working on my own lettering. The thing that really sucks is that I can't look at it with a fresh eye, and it looks really bad to me. But I have had people here at school compliment my lettering. I've even had someone ask "What font is that?" It's refreshing to know that I'm doing something right.The Nipples:That was Framed!!!!! His comic is a G-Rated comic that promotes Nipplessness(That's a cool word). Since then, it has been growing on everybody. Now no one wants nipples. Okay, maybe not that extreme. I'm trying hard not to fall in the nippless crowd, but I feel a Framed cameo coming up with UA. I may not be able to control my urges. Also, You should fix your signature so we can click on Fletcher's Cave. I always have to open a new window if i want to check something out on your site, and I'm Lazy. So that's no good.

Jmilfred · Post by **Jmilfred** » Mon Dec 18, 2000 4:03 am

I've never really done this for a strip, but for freelance graphic work I have started drawing in Photoshop using a very simple computer scratch-boardesque technique. I love inking with a brush, but its really hard for me to get away from thinking about pure line and start moving toward black and white shapes and achieving that balance you were talking about MAC. If I start with a black image and just use two or three erasers and paint brushes it forces me into that mode. Plus I don't have to scan or make the right selection to seperate my line art from my colors.I have to agree about your lettering MAC. I think its the best I've seen in any web comic. I'm extremely jealous cause I know lettering your own stuff is the way to go, but I really dislike doing it and think it will be awhile before I'm very good at it, if ever. I've tried decent looking comic fonts from Blambot, but they are still so uniform and stale. I've heard there are some lettering fonts that have like five slight variations of each character that randomly rotate in so all the E's don't look the same or the S's, etc... Guess I'll just have to keep pluggin' at it.Jason

Fletcherscave · Post by **Fletcherscave** » Mon Dec 18, 2000 6:32 am

My readers write--I respond! I will change my signature soon to include my site's URL--but until then, I will include a "cut n' paste" with my address on it. (I thought I *did* include it--a master of detail I am NOT...)Anyhoo--Jason, I'm glad that you're here and dropping us a line now and then! And you may like my lettering, but I think I like your brushwork more. (I think I remember you said you went to the Kubert school--I hope I got the name right, I almost wrote "Kubrick"--! Anyway, your brushwork has that style to it, and your art seems to flow well from the brush.) Never really picked up any facility with a brush, I'm too impatient and want to get to the next line (usually before the last one's dry). Usually when I work with a brush, my hands have more ink on 'em than the page.Are you still doing "Ink," or, if still on hiatus, when will you pick it up again? (And how's fatherhood been treating you THIS time around?) For those of you who haven't seen his strip, I hope Jason will drop off the URL...I changed browsers, and lost the bookmark--sorry...Pauly, thanks for the nipple fetish update--I'll have to read through ""Framed!!!" and see the whole deal. And why will we never see Pauly's girl? Is she...too beautiful to behold? (We art types get all the wimmin.) Or is she homely? Plain? Does she fight crime and she can't reveal her identity? And if we can only "read" her voice, will she have a cool personality? Is she evil? Sweet? Manipulative? Kind and giving? Has she met..."Mikey"?And as for my attitude toward computer fonts: They can have a place in any strip, I guess, if used judiciously. As for the random changing of the various letters in some fonts to make it lookk handwritten, I have suspected this for a long time of a lot of syndicated strips. Personally, unless the artist's handwriting is SO awful that it's not legible or the computer font works well with the artwork, I think strip artists should try to cultivate their lettering. Part of the craft is working the lettering thing out as well. My handwriting was awful until I hit art school and drafting school (during my brief stint as an engineer in college). Then I spent a lot of time fixing it...it took YEARS. (And "Doonesbury" was my beacon in the dark!) So, maybe I'm just bitter and wish others to suffer with me. Yeah, that's probably it.Pauly, I like your lettering. Neat, but obviously done by hand and not computer. And Jason, from my memory, your lettering wasn't bad...at least, I remember it as being handwritten--wasn't it?Gosh, I gotta go grade before my students kill me--this forum is my respite from burnout. Seasons Greetings, all! New Cave tomorrow!Mike Chambers
"Fletcher's Cave"
fletcherscave@hotmail.com <A HREF="http://fletcherscave.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>http://fletcherscave.keenspace.com</A>

Rtist54 · Post by **Rtist54** » Mon Dec 18, 2000 6:52 am

Wow!!!! You're questions about Pauly's girl really show how far I could go with it. I just haven't developed it much yet. I think I want to play with the fact that nobody's seen her. Hell, I just introduced her as a possible character. I think I want to have a little fun keeping her looks hidden, so people can get an idea of her personality first. But to tell you the truth, I have no idea what I am gonna do about her yet. But thanks for throwing some brainstorming ideas my way. They are really good ones, especially the Mikey one.Pauly

Maboo · Post by **Maboo** » Mon Dec 18, 2000 12:08 pm

Hello! Finally I'm here. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">.I use common and garden MS Paint for my colouring, which is not precisely IDEAL, but I'm used to it, and until I get around to getting a good alternative, it'll have to do.Mab------------------
<A HREF="http://blottostreet.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>Blotto Street</A> - The most important British webcomic about student life you'll EVER read.

Fletcherscave · Post by **Fletcherscave** » Mon Dec 18, 2000 12:23 pm

Other than a little coloring in Photoshop for my color pics on the site, I don't bother with using the computer for graphic help--shading, color, anything. It's not that I find it horrible, or "nonaesthetic," or anything like that, it's just...easier. (I'm naturally lazy...) Plus, I sometimes see comics that overdo it and you have no idea what was going through the artist's mind. And then I see OTHER comics that, if the hair color weren't different for each character (or at least different shades of gray), then you wouldn't be able to tell them apart. Anyhoo, Maboo, I'm glad you're here! I caught your referral on the Framed board (I think it was Framed) about missing nipples and whatnot. How did that start? Was that a Framed strip? (See my post there for a URL on another, more elaborate lost nipple advbenture than the one in FC.) BTW, I liked the Sunday B.S. with the girls (women?) getting dolled up for the dance--no words, but it was a neat visual. I'm glad I'm a guy--just rent a tux, you're on your way!And, Pauly--when do we meet (St.) Pauly's girl?BTW, for both Daniel and Pauly--how long does it take to color a B&W comic, or at least color elaborate line art?And what do you guys think of using computer fonts for your lettering?That's it for now. Later!------------------
MAC
"Fletcher's Cave"
fletcherscave.keenspace.com

Maboo · Post by **Maboo** » Tue Dec 19, 2000 10:47 am

Coloring:I like computer colouring because I can play around with changing colours if, for example, I put two colours together that whinge rather than sing, or if something just looks bad. That said, I realised only today that I f***** up badly on the colouring of the final panel last Sunday, I didn't properly finish the lines so you don't get the same intensity of line in the final vignettes as in the previous 3 strips. *Sigh*. <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/frown.gif">
Computer Fonts:My writing is DETESTABLE. Truly illegible, and would look bad on my strip. At the moment I've dropped Comic Sans (a good move I think) and am using a font called Tekton. I love the font Maritza Campos uses for <A HREF="http://www.crfh.net" TARGET=_blank>College Roomies From Hell!!!</A> for example, but that would not suit my strip. I just want something that's rounded, quite curvy but legible, with a nice visual "handle" that would go with the curvy style I have of drawing. (I normally do a curve to every angle.) Tekton is the most satisfactory font I could find to date. I do use other fonts on occasion, like the Curlz font to represent the speech of a specific group, or a handwriting font when I was showing what Myra was writing, but as a rule... I like the consistency and legibility of a font. If I could create one of my own, I probably would.Mab------------------
<A HREF="http://blottostreet.keenspace.com" TARGET=_blank>Blotto Street</A> - The most important British webcomic about student life you'll EVER read.