Crisis on Infinite Webcomics: A Superhero Crossover Proposal

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Crisis on Infinite Webcomics: A Superhero Crossover Proposal

Postby Linkara on Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:12 pm

Okay, I wasn't going to propose this for SEVERAL more months and after issue 4 of my comic, but what the hell, I'm feeling stupid and brave and I think this sort of thing should be planned out waaaay ahead of time.. ^_^

Some of you may recall that I sent out This piece of fanart a while ago. What I didn't tell you was that I'm a psychotic loonie who ALWAYS thinks big and not just for small-scale stuff. :twisted:
Within my little head, I've been dreaming of a huge crossover event the likes of which Comic Genesis and Keenspace has never seen. Since my own webcomic is a superhero webcomic, a lot of the inspiration here comes from DC Comics' old crossover stories with parallel universes.

Here's the plot rundown of what I'm thinking:
There is a war occurring in what is known as the "Web of Dimensions." There are two main forces - a multidimensional guardian known as the Webmaster, who travels through the parallel universes and maintains order and prevents any dimension from crossing with another or subsequently destroying itself or others or acts as a general dimensional policeman. The other force I will not reveal the name of, but generally he used to be an agent of the webmaster, a superhero himself in his own world until the Webmaster ordered him to stop the woman he loved (who had become a powerful supervillain who threatened other dimensions) by any means necessary. While this hero refused outright to stop her, the Webmaster intervened and managed to kill the woman. The hero, consumed by hatred at what the Webmaster stood for and deciding that the entire concept of heroism, sacrifice, and other noble ideals that are generally associated with "Goodness" were hypocritical, self-defeating, and ultimately horric in their expectations and decided to get his revenge against the Webmaster. As such, he began travelling to parallel universes, gathering weapons from as many divergent and bizarre universes as he could get his hands on in hopes of fighting the Webmaster, whose dimenional powers far exceeded his own when he began his quest.

And now we get to where this Crisis has come - the hero's quest is over, assembling all the weapons at his disposal and he's begun his war with the Webmaster on his own terms - in the Web of Dimensions itself. Images, spraypainted in universes in their own way like in the form of graffiti or crop circles, mark universes' territory for the war between the two. The Webmaster, having fought the war for several years from his own perspective, decides it's time to finally take down the hero with a little assistance from some parallel universes, which is where we come to my request.

I want heroes. Heck, I might even take some villains! I'm requesting a general call for people to become involved in this project, whether it be as writers, artists, or simply lending their characters out either for a cameo or to be used in this idea. I have a core group that I REALLY want involved in this, whom I will be sending out e-mails to privately, but of course I do believe in the more the merrier. ^_~

Now, as such, the next question I'm sure people are asking is - but how will we be able to have such a large, far-reaching story on all of our sites? And who's going to write or draw it if it's really that long?

Well, that's why I'm asking for it now as opposed to waiting. I want to start scripting and maybe even drawing stuff now. Now, some of you are fantastic artists who would probably be my first choice in doing it... if this were the proffesional world. However, I understand how people have commitments (three of the core group that I'm going to be asking for have had trouble updating, but they all have good excuses. ^^;; ). I want this comic to be fun and a great story for the people involved, even maybe getting it out on a daily or three-days-per-week basis, another reason why I want us to start early - I want us to be mostly done by the time we start posting it, which brings me to the next part of this: how we're going to store this comic.

My proposal is either by special request or by normal registration, to set up another comic on the site where comic on the site, something like crisis.comicgenesis.com or some such thing. Now, something this big needs to have something in return, right? Well, it can do several things for you, the base of which is to promote your own comic by bringing it to the attention of readers of other superhero comics. Next of which is simply the great feeling of knowing you participated in something hugely kickass. Another idea is that, since big summer crossover events in comic books tend to also make nice leaps for characters, you can have the story act as a kind of new beginning for your own stuff, introducing a new plot element into your own comic or having it be the excuse to change something you'd like to change. And, of course, since we're all personally in charge of our own comics, it could be that the event has no effect at all on your characters and you just did it for a laugh!

So, what do you think, sirs? ^_~
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Postby Mr. Neil on Sun Jun 18, 2006 11:59 pm

Well, that's a very flattering proposal. I would love any day to have my characters appear along side characters from great comics like the Green Avenger and Mindmistress. In fact, it's my personal goal to make sure that Dasien meets Mindmistress at least once, canonically (fan art doesn't count). Unfortunately, I don't think I could participate in such a project at this time. I'd like to get a little more work under my belt before I start thinking crossovers. At least until my first story arc is out of the way, although I'd probably jump at the chance if I thought it was worth it.

Not too long ago, a small group of authors had embarked on a very similar project. It was called The Nonstandard Assembly. I actually went on for a while, but it came to a grinding halt around chapter 6. It was a shame, too, because Parker had made a very cool cameo. I wanted to get the pages from that, but I never got them.

It's a great idea, and it would be lots of fun. I'm afraid I don't have the work ethic to pull something like this off, and I would have to be sure that I could trust another artist with Dasien before handing her off. She's a very personal character.
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Postby Phact0rri on Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:09 am

looks interesting, hope things work out on this.
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Postby Linkara on Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:34 am

Well, Mr. Neil, in this case, I'm hoping for it to have an established beginning, middle, and end when we work on it if you're concerned about it coming to a grinding halt. ^^ Also, I'm the type of person to continually aggrivate people with my attempts and keeping them focused on a project. ^^ Still, if you have made up your mind totally and completely, I can respect that and move on. ^^

*Grumbles silently to himself about how he will hack Dasien's comic and induce mind-numbing torture in revenge for- :o Uhhh... You didn't see this.*
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Postby Alschroeder on Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:44 am

Well, the pacing would be a problem---Neil started DASIEN at the same time I started MINDMISTRESS. I've done over a dozen story arcs since then (some amounting to more than a hundred pages) and DASIEN is in the middle of Dasien's second major fight, I believe? Not criticizing, just pointing out. Abby of GREEN AVENGER is currently in Japan and updating irregularly, too...

More important, what kind of crossover will it be? The first and oldest crossover is actually a fight. Sub-Mariner meeting and fighting the Human Torch was the first comic book crossover, months before the Justice Society---which is the OTHER type of crossover, comics characters meeting and joining against a common foe. It sounds more like the latter from your description--but sometimes the first is more fun. Think Thing vs. Hulk.

And a crossover just for a crossover's sake isn't that fun. In this story, at http://mindmistress.comicgenesis.com/horrorcov.htm I cross over with many different webcomics, including PVP and Zebra Girl, and it was fun to do---but in the long run, I think it made for one of my weakest stories. Grand events often leave one with a feeling of dissatisfaction. Witness the reaction to the endings of IDENTITY CRISIS and INFINITE CRISIS or old-time events like SECRET WARS. Nevertheless, since then, I've mentioned that Lorelei/MM live in the same universe as Chelsea of CLAN OF THE CATS, and had them meet with Magellan and Vigil of Graphic Smash.

Also, Mindmistress has appeared in both Magellan's and Zebra Girl's strips...but you have to be careful with this sort of thing. Some of these crossovers can be truly epic, like FLASH OF TWO WORLDS or CRISIS ON EARTH-ONE/EARTH-TWO or THING VS. HULK-- or it can be an utterly forgettable bit of crap like the first SECRET WARS or MILLENIUM.

That said, I might point this out about webcomics---a large minority have talking, often malevolent animals. Examples are Bun-Bun in Sluggy Freelance, Diablo in Goats, Simon in PRESS START TO PLAY, etc. Could they be genetically engineered animals sent to spy on various realities. Secondmy, many have robots or pcs far in advance of ours. Examples range from Clango Cyclotron of DIESEL SWEETIES, Pint Size of QUESTIONABLE CONTENT, Eve of APPLEGEEKS, and the robot girl in MEGATOKYO, just off the top of my head. Otherwise the worlds seem just like ours, even down to the type of music they listen to---again, could these robots be perhaps, even unknown to themselves, storing details about their respective universes for some grand manipulator?

Is the power behind the universe an inept Woody Allen,running the universe on a laptop a la GOATS? OR do they get to the final reality and find that Gabe and Tycho from PENNY ARCADE are playing a Kingom Hearts-type game with webcomics-type characters? (I LIKE that idea.)

Regardless, this needs to be carefully plotted. I don't mind helping: and hereby offer MM and her inter-dimensional "catwalk" as an easy way for many of the characters to meet. But...I want it to be half-decent, not a crossover just for the sake of doing a crossover.

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Postby Linkara on Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:25 am

I don't know, I think the first Secret Wars is pretty memorable, it's the second and third ones where it got lame. ^_~


And yes, as I mentioned, I am well aware of some of the difficulties encountered by some of the people I would wish for involved in the project, including Abby currently being in Japan, hence why I wanted the planning phase to begin here as opposed to just jumping into the work. The kind of crossover I'm hoping for is a teamup akin to JLA/JSA, albeit a little infighting wouldn't be too hard to slip in or even change it into. ^_~

Hence also why I want to get people signed on board. I have the general plot worked out with where the major events would happen, but if the general consensus is the plot is unworkable or they'd prefer to change things, that can be done.

Hence why I like some of the things Al is talking about - having spies in the various universes was part of the plan I was working on (in the case of the Webmaster, he actually recruited real people to be his eyes and ears reporting in various universes, but the "evil hero" would operate under his own idea with robots as you propose). I wasn't going to introduce a "power behind it all" like you suggest, although that IS a good idea. ^_~ I think of it more as a police action where they need certain individuals for certain tasks... but again, that's the advantage we have in this sort of group effort as opposed to an editorially-mandated crossover like in the big two that you described - we can have as much fun with it as we'd like.

As for carefully plotting it, my current plan is after about a week or two of having the thread up, I'm going to be setting up a Yahoo group or other such e-mail-based webgroup so everyone can receive updates on the project as well as contribute to the creation of it. ^^ And thanks for joining up, Al!
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??????????????

Postby Dr_Destruction on Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:34 am

I just went over to Dasien and saw my fan art listed as Bill Adams.

William!

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(The only guy who ever called me Bill was a former boss of mine who was a real jerk and a pain in the butt. XD )
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Re: Crisis on Infinite Webcomics: A Superhero Crossover Prop

Postby RemusShepherd on Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:18 am

Huge concept. Huge amount of work.

I'm willing to offer most of my characters for this (I'd like to keep a few, like Foil, out of it). I have a great villain if you're looking for a graffitti artist. :)

But I don't know how much work I'd be able to do for it. I'd like to see a plot and preferably some kind of time estimate -- is this a 30 page special, or an ongoing (and potentially neverending) serial? I'd help out for the former, but not with the latter.
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Postby Linkara on Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:27 am

Might be a little more than 30 pages. I of course don't want it to be too long a thing or people will lose interest/be unable to come to continue work on it, but I also don't want it to be so short as to be anti-climactic. I don't want to post the whole thing here since we also want to attract potential readers to this, but I sent my full outline to Neil in hopes of bringing him in on the project. If you want one, too, I can send it to ya, otherwise I'm planning on giving it to the main group to critique/improve upon once we have everyone on board.

As for Indefensible Positions, I was going to bring this up, too - with an ensemble cast of heroes, it might be prudent to limit the number you bring in, probably no more than three characters, for panel time and/or character interaction for the group.

If people think that's stupid, however, and unfair, than we can forego that rule and have as many people as you want. ^^
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Postby RemusShepherd on Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:41 am

Linkara wrote:As for Indefensible Positions, I was going to bring this up, too - with an ensemble cast of heroes, it might be prudent to limit the number you bring in, probably no more than three characters, for panel time and/or character interaction for the group.


That's reasonable. I was thinking of either the four at the base of the team (Orb, Deb, Wirey, Skeeter) or a single character -- Deb or the Mosquito if you want a hero, Hooli or Portal if you want a villain, or Deb and Hooli if you wanted an opposing pair. Most of these can be reinterpreted as having interdimensional travel abilities. (Most of them are also easy to draw. :) ) Or talk to me if you wanted someone else. But I wouldn't want to flood this project with my twisted creations. :)

Include me on anything you'd like. I can wait to see the outline until you're ready to pass things around the main group, that's fine.

Edit: Oh, I don't know if I was in that core group you wanted to email, but you'll find that reaching me by PM here is much, much easier. :)
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Postby Linkara on Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:46 am

That's fine. ^^ We'll probably have a hero, preferably, it's just I know that some webcomics have villains as their main characters. ^_~

Also, if people didn't want to be included in the main action but wanted to cameo their characters for a page or two, that'd be fine, as well! ^_^
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Re: ??????????????

Postby Mr. Neil on Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:55 am

Dr_Destruction wrote:I just went over to Dasien and saw my fan art listed as Bill Adams.

William!

William Adams!

(The only guy who ever called me Bill was a former boss of mine who was a real jerk and a pain in the butt. XD )

I did?! I wonder why I did that. I'm fixing that right now.

alschroeder wrote:Well, the pacing would be a problem---Neil started DASIEN at the same time I started MINDMISTRESS. I've done over a dozen story arcs since then (some amounting to more than a hundred pages)

Actually, the comic is completely restarted, so almost the entire first story was thrown out. Even at my slow pace, if I had kept the original story, I would have had significantly more pages by now.
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Re: ??????????????

Postby Alschroeder on Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:08 pm

Mr. Neil wrote:
Actually, the comic is completely restarted, so almost the entire first story was thrown out. Even at my slow pace, if I had kept the original story, I would have had significantly more pages by now.


Yeah, I wasn't criticizing---your art style has really improved since your initial tries, and maybe I would have done better to take your pacing. I just have trouble seeing us co-ordinating something large like this, with so many variable speeds of updates.---Al
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Postby Mr. Neil on Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:22 pm

Oh, I know you didn't mean anything by it. If anyone beats me up over my pacing, it's me. I just wanted to clarify.

And yes, I'm much happier with the art style now.

Well, if everyone else is excited about this, I have no problems participating. I can't guaruntee much of my own time into the project, perhaps a cover of sorts, but I'm in as long as Dasien gets to give noogies to Mindmistress.

Kidding, Al. :D Maybe...
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Postby Alschroeder on Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:22 pm

I have two other concerns--I don't think _I_ should draw it, and I don't think you should either, Linkara. I think if you're going to have a cross-epic like this, we need to get the best artist among us to do it. I KNOW I'm a stronger writer than I am an artist, and quite frankly, I think that's true of you too.

And, I dunno--the Webmaster---kind of sounds like the Beyonder or something, and may come across almost as cheesy. I may be wrong, but I wonder if we would do better dealing with already existing villians, if we can find one with big enough ambitions, and whose ambitions can stretch across parallel dimensions...

Gregor Mendel in GOATS comes to mind...or that guy the RAM always fought who was near-omnipotent...

And there are several GAMING GUARDIAN villains who might fill the bill...

Hmmm. FLICK on graphic Smash deals with other realities...-

I'm not tossing cold water on the idea, just exploring alternatives, you understand.--Al
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Postby Alschroeder on Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:26 pm

Mr. Neil wrote:I can't guaruntee much of my own time into the project, perhaps a cover of sorts, but I'm in as long as Dasien gets to give noogies to Mindmistress.

Kidding, Al. :D Maybe...


Hey, Dasien (or "Daisy Ann", as MM calls her) has to be in there, so as to infuriate MM!! ---Al
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Postby Linkara on Mon Jun 19, 2006 2:02 pm

Indeed, character interaction would be a very big part in this, so Daisy-Ann and the psychic turn-tricker (*Waves to Ida*) can have fun. ^_~

And as for the name "Webmaster" changing, that's perfectly all right. ^^ When Marv Wolfman first thought up "The Monitor" for Crisis on Infinite Earths, his name was "The Librarian." ^_~

The name started a looooooong time ago when I was a little kid and adored Spider-Man. I started doodling one day and created this guy wearing a high-collared cape and a web on his chest (my drawing skills haven't come very far since then. ^_~). Of course, at that age, I didn't have the comic aspirations I have today, but a few years later I revisited the Webmaster concept, then, for a Pokemon/Digimon/Sailor Moon crossover I wrote involving parallel universes (which we shall never speak of again. >_<;; ). Essentially, I've kept the idea of the Webmaster and the web of dimensions as my primary source of parallel universe stuff in my writings, be they fanfic or printed novel. On top of that, he'd kind of act as a simile to the webmaster of a website, maintaining order and keeping things in tact in his little realm (Remember a while ago when I was asking about using the Comic Genesis logo for something? This was what I was talking about. XD ). Of course, since this is a group effort, any suggestions on the baddie or the Webmaster (or the plotline in general) can be discussed, voted, and changed as we please. ^^

As for the artistic side, I do agree with you, Al, about neither you or I drawing it and maybe finding someone whose work is superb. However, if we should fail to find somebody, I wonder if it wouldn't be in our best interests, then, to delegate pages to people. That way, the project might not have the best art consistently, but there'd be enough coolness in it to keep it going. ^^
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Re: ??????????????

Postby Dr_Destruction on Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:52 pm

Mr. Neil wrote:I did?! I wonder why I did that. I'm fixing that right now.


Thank you. 8-)

Now as to the hold up of variable update speeds the crossover itself doens't necessarily need to be more than one page each. As long as a general story arc is agreed upon then everyone can contribute one page. And in true Keenspace fashion then we can each display our own strip in the order in which we like while using the strips of the others to pad our own update schedule. Like the recent Emergency Exit/Beyond Reality crossover.

Everyone volunteers for a date and a scene in the story arc. If more than one person wants a particular date then the host (in this case Linkara) decides who gets to do what.
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Postby Linkara on Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:30 pm

Same sort of thought I had, Dr. Destruction. ^^ Of course, this sort of decision making is something we can do once the group is up and we actually have everyone coordinated on the effort, which might happen sooner if people maintain this level of enthusiasm about it. ^^
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Postby Alschroeder on Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:03 am

One other thing we need for it is a better name---"REalitystorm" for instance. Or "Cosmic Genesis" since most of the comics will be cosmic from comic genesis. Something a little sweeter than "Crisis on Infnite Webcomics".----Al
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