12-1:"Have you been served?"

12-1:"Have you been served?"

Postby Madmoonie on Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:27 pm

I am glad that Ben is letting her Beltane know just where she is. She is in his arcade. not at the store. He is not going to be bullied or anything else. I do wonder what her problem is though. I have heard tales of idiots hating people so much that they would managed to get them fired or quit. But that is not enough they woud TACK THEM DOWN to their new job and get them fired from THAT. I thought that was what this was, but she seemingly did not know he was there. Anxious to see how this plays out.
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Postby Shyal_malkes on Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:30 pm

well, at least Ben can wrest some control of the situation again. nothing like a little surprize to throw your enemies off of thinking that they are in charge. and the fact that Ben is in charge definately counts as a surprize in this case.
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Postby Celidah the Bardess on Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:14 pm

Eep, skeery bear face! :o
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Postby Sharuuk on Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:36 pm

BWAAA-HAA-HAA-HAAAAAAAAA... :lol: :lol: :lol: ................wet skivvies and all!!!!

Well done Ben... :D ....and OHHHH how you ENJOYED that!!! :twisted:

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Re: 12-1:"Have you been served?"

Postby NydaLynn on Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:44 pm

Madmoonie wrote:I am glad that Ben is letting her Beltane know just where she is. She is in his arcade. not at the store. He is not going to be bullied or anything else. I do wonder what her problem is though. I have heard tales of idiots hating people so much that they would managed to get them fired or quit. But that is not enough they woud TACK THEM DOWN to their new job and get them fired from THAT. I thought that was what this was, but she seemingly did not know he was there. Anxious to see how this plays out.


Well, it seems that wiccan groups can get just as annoyed with halloween as Christan groups do. Thier beef? For them, the commercialization kills the religious connection (samhian/celtic new year) while painting an inaccurate, negatve, and all around wrong view of witches and witchcraft. (just putting as they see it) So yeah... here you are seeing the (wiccan?) counterpart to Pecknsniff and her lot.
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Postby BrockthePaine on Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:03 pm

Ah yes, that is one of my favorite things in the world... seeing an annoying person receive a cluebat to the back of the head...
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Re: 12-1:"Have you been served?"

Postby Sharuuk on Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:22 pm

NydaLynn wrote:Well, it seems that wiccan groups can get just as annoyed with halloween as Christan groups do. Thier beef? For them, the commercialization kills the religious connection (samhian/celtic new year) while painting an inaccurate, negatve, and all around wrong view of witches and witchcraft. (just putting as they see it) So yeah... here you are seeing the (wiccan?) counterpart to Pecknsniff and her lot.


Yeah....agreed.....but to a point. For the most part Wiccans etc may not like how Halloween is celebrated, but by and large they don't go and make obnoxious spectacles of themselves like the Peckensnif 'give-Christians-a-bad-name' group is doing.

Beltane is just a professional pain-in-the-ass and a semi-pro constantly offended "victim" who wants everything according to HER criteria. Ben should have a great deal of fun with this.

Me personally.....I'd love to see LILY tear her a new one since she knows that Beltane is responsible for all the Christmas grief at Bullzeye and getting Ben fired.

C'mon Ben...let Lily in on the fun and tag-team this Oh-So-Deserving biotch.
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Postby Wallaroo_Blacke on Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:53 pm

Celidah the Bardess wrote:Eep, skeery bear face! :o


Oh, he's grinned a couple of times or more...

...Right here, and here.

Grinning carnivores make for a scary set of teeth!

Just like Florence Ambrose.
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Postby Sharuuk on Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:57 pm

Wallaroo_Blacke wrote:Grinning carnivores make for a scary set of teeth!


Heh.....I'll vouch for that. :twisted:

*Biiiiig glittery toothed grin*

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Postby Manta on Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:05 pm

Now wouldn't you just love to be a fly on the wall in the ladies room right now and watch Beltane desperately trying to get her reality back together? :twisted:
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Postby Celidah the Bardess on Fri Dec 01, 2006 9:18 pm

Wallaroo_Blacke wrote:
Celidah the Bardess wrote:Eep, skeery bear face! :o


Oh, he's grinned a couple of times or more...

...Right here, and here.

Grinning carnivores make for a scary set of teeth!

Just like Florence Ambrose.


True, true...I still think this is one of Ben's skeeirest yet. (And yet how wonderful all at the same time, particularly regarding the subject...)
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Postby Persephone_Kore on Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:38 pm

Neither of those other two examples were as close to head-on, though, and the artwork on this one is much more... detailed.

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Postby Radarnocturn on Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:38 pm

My only sort of problem with the return of Beltane is I'm fearing more overly bashing of wiccans. Granted, I know how every religion has their fanatics and nuts (hence why I prefer to keep out of it all) who go extremely overboard.

I loved Ben's attitude towards Peckensnif, correctly portraying the anti-halloween christians who are too stupid to do any research to realize that halloween has as much religious standing in christianity as even christmas and call it a day of evil. I dated a couple times a girl who's mother fell in that category, who didn't realize a Pope acknowledged the holiday and made it official.

But back to Beltane. I wouldn't feel so bad if there was at least one other wiccan portrayed in a better light. I've met a few of them and they were all nice and friendly to me, and even my sister is one.

One comic book that even interviewed a male wiccan (who was an utter gentleman as he explained his religion), and has the heroine and her family as wiccans is Tarot. The scene I loved the most was were Tarot, the heroine, saved a little girl's life (I believe from being hit by a car) and the mother knows the woman's a wiccan, just starts bashing her for her beliefs and even appeals to a priest to share her point of views. The priest disagreed with her, and was nice to Tarot, which angered the close minded mother who left in a huff while the priest appologized for the close mindedness of the woman. If I recall correctly (I'd have to find the issue to be sure) his reason for not being like the woman is because Jesus preached love, not hate, and Tarot came away from the experience with a newfound appreciation for the priest and christians.

My point is, if you are going to show the bad of one religion, at least show some of the good from some of the members, otherwise it will feel to some readers, such as myself, that the comic is being rather negative towards that religion.

Granted, Beltane is a nut and extremist, but maybe we could meet a member of her coven who is more open minded and kind, and either clashes with Beltane on some things or has to do damage control because of her.
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Postby Deckard Canine on Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:05 am

Sharuuk wrote:[size=18][color=blue]wet skivvies and all!!!!


Either that or she ran off to vomit. Not just from fear, but from disgust at the thought of Ben owning and running a successful business.

It's pretty funny to think of Ben scaring people with his teeth, because unlike in some comics, there's no evidence of predation among the anthros in this world. He'd have to be psychotic to bite someone; it's possible that his opponents don't put that past him.

To be fair to Wiccans, Beltane is not a full-fledged standard one. She dallies in multiple pagan cults, which tells me that she doesn't truly believe in any one of them.
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Postby Jwrebholz on Sun Dec 03, 2006 7:48 am

Yah. Beltane is nothing more than a Wicca wannabe. I actually knew a guy like that--he wasn't chronically offended like Beltane seems to be, but he WAS bat-guano crazy. He claimed to be a Wiccan..then a ninja..then Persian (whatever the hell that meant--he never did explain it well). The boy should've been given a hug-me jacket and tossed in a rubber room.
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Postby Kerry Skydancer on Sun Dec 03, 2006 12:00 pm

He probably meant Zoroastrian. Sounds pretty darn clueless, though.
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Postby Wanderwolf on Sun Dec 03, 2006 9:19 pm

Just a few side comments:

1. A nice Wiccan would be good, if only because they'd likely blow Beltane out of the water. Still, it would require Ralph to do research, pick a Wiccan practice, and bring in a new character.

(An actual Wiccan, for starters, believes in the Fivefold Law (also called Sevenfold or Tenfold), which states that everything you do rebounds upon you in multiples. Beltane apparently considers this an "optional belief", if her actions are any indication...)

Personally, if I was going to be Wiccan, I'd go with Traditional Wicca; it has both the Goddess and the God, after all. Not that Goddess-centered Wicca and the Norse-based Asatru aren't interesting in their own "rite". :wink:

2. To be fair, Ralph doesn't actually bash Wiccans; he bashes twinks of all stripes. Nothing Beltane has ever done in any way promotes the Wiccan Rede; she's not pro-Wicca, just anti-Christianity.

3. Ben's scary bridgework makes sense, if you remember that animal stereotypes are still found in his universe. Remember, Lily's relatives still thought bears slept through the winter, and Fred has previously commented on the expectation that, as a rabbit, he's going to be timid. Besides, if that mouthful of mincers and mashers grinned down at you, I'd think you'd be looking for a place to change your shorts, too.

4. The confusion about Halloween is partially the fault of the much-derided Chick Tracts (most famous for their laughable "Dark Dungeons", in which a young girl becomes a spell-casting Satanist by playing an RPG). Back in the day, the Catholic Church specialized in adopting holidays. Among the most popular:

Christmas: Originally the Roman holiday, Saturnalia, a festival to the god of chaos and destruction. A gift-giving holiday was settled upon as a drastic improvement over Saturnalia's "one day with no laws" idea. (N.B.: If you place the date of Jesus' birth by the words of the Gospels, it has to be in Spring; otherwise, the shepherds wouldn't have been out on the hills at night.)

Easter: Originally a holiday to the goddess Eostre, (according to the Venerable Bede), a fertility goddess of the Saxons. There's a reason for all the rabbits and eggs, folks... :wink:

Halloween: Originally a rite of Arawn, Celtic lord of the underworld (Annwn), and known as Samhain (Summer's End) for its place just before the start of winter. (In ancient calendars, winter was a "dead time" for agrarian peoples, and was generally omitted. The earliest Roman calendars began in Mars (plowing) and ended in Dekember (tenth month), for example.)

Samhain (roughly pronounced "soun") lasted three days, starting from Oiche Shamhna (Samhain Eve); a time of bonfires, taking stock of the winter supplies, slaughtering cattle to provide meat for the winter, fortune-telling, and religious purification. (Three days, yes. The Celts used a lunar calendar, and Samhain was on the full moon closest to the winter equinox.) It was at this time that the souls of those who had died in the year would travel to Annwn, and the Horned God would shed his year's horns (still commemorated in some parts of Brittany with the baking of kornigou, antler-shaped cakes). At the end, there was even a ritual relighting of the community fires from the central bonfire.

All Hallow's Day/All Saints' Day was declared for November 1 by Pope Gregory IV in the 9th Century, moving it from the original date of May 13 (the anniversary of the rechristening of the Pantheon in 609, "converting" it to "The Church of St. Mary and the Martyrs"). This made October 31st "All Hallow's Eve", which gradually contracted to form "Hallowe'en". (All Hallow's Day has since fallen in popularity; understandable, as it was to be a feast day for all the saints that didn't have a day of their own.)

5. Finally, I can tell you why we haven't seen any other Wiccans; no coven in the world would have Beltane on a bet. She named herself after the May holiday, for crying out loud! It's like naming yourself "Easter" or "Christmas"; incredibly pretentious. I bet she bought her Book of Shadows on Amazon.com...

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Postby BrockthePaine on Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:21 pm

Wanderwolf wrote:Christmas: Originally the Roman holiday, Saturnalia, a festival to the god of chaos and destruction. A gift-giving holiday was settled upon as a drastic improvement over Saturnalia's "one day with no laws" idea. (N.B.: If you place the date of Jesus' birth by the words of the Gospels, it has to be in Spring; otherwise, the shepherds wouldn't have been out on the hills at night.)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I recall, the old church used to celebrate Christmas as the day of conception, while Michaelmas (29 Sept) was celebrated as the day of his actual birth; 25th December and 29th September are suspiciously about nine months apart...

Don't recall where I heard that, so it might be wrong. If anybody wants to debunk it... *shrugs*
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Postby Wanderwolf on Sun Dec 03, 2006 10:44 pm

BrockthePaine wrote:
Wanderwolf wrote:Christmas: Originally the Roman holiday, Saturnalia, a festival to the god of chaos and destruction. A gift-giving holiday was settled upon as a drastic improvement over Saturnalia's "one day with no laws" idea. (N.B.: If you place the date of Jesus' birth by the words of the Gospels, it has to be in Spring; otherwise, the shepherds wouldn't have been out on the hills at night.)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I recall, the old church used to celebrate Christmas as the day of conception, while Michaelmas (29 Sept) was celebrated as the day of his actual birth; 25th December and 29th September are suspiciously about nine months apart...

Don't recall where I heard that, so it might be wrong. If anybody wants to debunk it... *shrugs*


No references I can find include this idea; Michaelmas is also known as All Angels' Day, and is a feast day to Archangels Michael, Gabriel and Raphael. Originally a day of obligation (Mass being mandatory), it is no longer such.

<shrug> Otherwise, I got nothin'.

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