People are throwing the idea, according to the news I saw. Some want to rebuild it further north. But how? How does one rebuild a city of several million people from scratch? Are they going take prexisting city and start from there or what? Its eriee, its almost like a warzone. Everyone left. Still, GOD willing, we will rebuild. We are not done yet. Its time to rebuild folks. Grab your hammers.RHJunior wrote:One wonders if they'll build another New Orleans elsewhere.
OT: Prayers for New Orleans
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Madmoonie
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Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?' John 11: 25-26
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I'll be blunt, if they rebuild the city right where it is now, they're fools.
New Orleans could have been a textbook example of "dumb ways to build a city." It's currently sitting several METERS below sea level, and what's more, <I>it's still sinking.</i> the bedrock is, I undestand, over a thousand feet down, under accumulated silt. If they rebuild there, the cost will be ruinous, and it will only be a matter of time before another hurricane swamps it again. Throwing good money after bad....
There's a time to think of history and tradition and sentimentality over a historical city. This isn't that time. The city was built in a location guaranteed to bring on disaster, and it would be the height of folly to repeat that mistake.
New Orleans could have been a textbook example of "dumb ways to build a city." It's currently sitting several METERS below sea level, and what's more, <I>it's still sinking.</i> the bedrock is, I undestand, over a thousand feet down, under accumulated silt. If they rebuild there, the cost will be ruinous, and it will only be a matter of time before another hurricane swamps it again. Throwing good money after bad....
There's a time to think of history and tradition and sentimentality over a historical city. This isn't that time. The city was built in a location guaranteed to bring on disaster, and it would be the height of folly to repeat that mistake.
"What was that popping noise ?"
"A paradigm shifting without a clutch."
--Dilbert
"A paradigm shifting without a clutch."
--Dilbert
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Nikas_Zekeval
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A story I heard was that after the Great London Fire in the 1600s there was a commission that came up with wonderful plans for a rationalized city, grid streets, etc.
But by the time they finalized those plans Londoners had hashed out where there own homes used to be, almost all had temporary shacks and other shelters set up so they could squat on them, and more than a few had started rebuilding there homes. Thus the plans were never implemented and some of the older areas of London have streets that twists every which way.
If they do rebuild they do need to lay down several cubic MILES of fill to at least lift the city. You can't sink pilings, but large thick concrete pads can at least 'float' on the fill. IIRC that's how they built the foundations of the skyscrapers in NO's downtown.
To be fair Ralph the city wasn't sinking, or at least not noticibly till after the 1812 New Madrid Earthquake. And while from the storm/flooding standpoint the city makes no sense, from the original (and for the most part still current) economic standpoint we do need some kind of city on or near the mouth of the Mississippi to handle the port there. Till they clear the Mississippi of storm wreckage the US will have problems exporting grain (primary transport route is barges down the Missouri and Mississippi to NO for ships bound around the world). While damaged most of the port infastructure seems intact, abandoning NO means having to recreat that capacity elsewhere.
If you notice the core of the city is not as badly or not flooded at all, it's the sprawl around it, all the suburbs, that are roof deep in the sludge. The core of New Orleans is gonna be rebuilt, for both political and economic reasons. I'd bet on the city being smaller, or having the suburbs moved (or rather rebuilt) north and to higher ground, with the area of the current suburbs, after the clean up, being plowed, filled, and used for a Netherlands style defense in depth dike system.
BTW if anything needs a broom taken to it, it's the city's police department. As one wag put it, NO's has a gang problem, and one of the gangs wears blue and badges.
City Cops have been spotted taking part in looting, or running off looters so they can get the choice bits, like a lion running off the hyennas so he can eat, then leave the left overs for the scavangers.
But by the time they finalized those plans Londoners had hashed out where there own homes used to be, almost all had temporary shacks and other shelters set up so they could squat on them, and more than a few had started rebuilding there homes. Thus the plans were never implemented and some of the older areas of London have streets that twists every which way.
If they do rebuild they do need to lay down several cubic MILES of fill to at least lift the city. You can't sink pilings, but large thick concrete pads can at least 'float' on the fill. IIRC that's how they built the foundations of the skyscrapers in NO's downtown.
To be fair Ralph the city wasn't sinking, or at least not noticibly till after the 1812 New Madrid Earthquake. And while from the storm/flooding standpoint the city makes no sense, from the original (and for the most part still current) economic standpoint we do need some kind of city on or near the mouth of the Mississippi to handle the port there. Till they clear the Mississippi of storm wreckage the US will have problems exporting grain (primary transport route is barges down the Missouri and Mississippi to NO for ships bound around the world). While damaged most of the port infastructure seems intact, abandoning NO means having to recreat that capacity elsewhere.
If you notice the core of the city is not as badly or not flooded at all, it's the sprawl around it, all the suburbs, that are roof deep in the sludge. The core of New Orleans is gonna be rebuilt, for both political and economic reasons. I'd bet on the city being smaller, or having the suburbs moved (or rather rebuilt) north and to higher ground, with the area of the current suburbs, after the clean up, being plowed, filled, and used for a Netherlands style defense in depth dike system.
BTW if anything needs a broom taken to it, it's the city's police department. As one wag put it, NO's has a gang problem, and one of the gangs wears blue and badges.
City Cops have been spotted taking part in looting, or running off looters so they can get the choice bits, like a lion running off the hyennas so he can eat, then leave the left overs for the scavangers.
Last edited by Nikas_Zekeval on Thu Sep 01, 2005 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Come on Sam, it can't be as hard as blowing up a star."
"I tell you, blow up one star and suddenly everyone thinks you can walk on water."
*Beepboop* [connection established]
"Okay. Up next, parting the Red Sea."
Gen. Jacob Carter and Lt. Col. Samatha Carter, Stargate SG-1, "Reckoning"
"I tell you, blow up one star and suddenly everyone thinks you can walk on water."
*Beepboop* [connection established]
"Okay. Up next, parting the Red Sea."
Gen. Jacob Carter and Lt. Col. Samatha Carter, Stargate SG-1, "Reckoning"
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Nikas_Zekeval
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BTW, a blog from someone in New Orleans, reporting on what he sees around him http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/
"Come on Sam, it can't be as hard as blowing up a star."
"I tell you, blow up one star and suddenly everyone thinks you can walk on water."
*Beepboop* [connection established]
"Okay. Up next, parting the Red Sea."
Gen. Jacob Carter and Lt. Col. Samatha Carter, Stargate SG-1, "Reckoning"
"I tell you, blow up one star and suddenly everyone thinks you can walk on water."
*Beepboop* [connection established]
"Okay. Up next, parting the Red Sea."
Gen. Jacob Carter and Lt. Col. Samatha Carter, Stargate SG-1, "Reckoning"
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UncleMonty
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Over the years, I've read a number of news stories depicting the incompetence and corruption of New Orleans' government and police. This news of police looting seems to prove the tales.
Ah well - "The foolish man built his house upon the sand." to paraphrase the verse.
"And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."
Ah well - "The foolish man built his house upon the sand." to paraphrase the verse.
"And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."
Avoid those who speak badly of the people, for such wish to rule over you.
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SolidusRaccoon
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Yeah NO was a corrupt city, all the money to keep the levees and stuff up to date was skimmed and embezeld.
Yes, sir. I agree completely. It takes a well-balanced individual... such as yourself to rule the world. No, sir. No one knows that you were the third one... Solidus. ...What should I do about the woman? Yes sir. I'll keep her under surveillance. Yes. Thank you. Good-bye...... Mr. President.
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StrangeWulf13
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Considering that the levees and pumps failed (as my girlfriend told me), I wouldn't be half surprised to find that the money meant for keeping them up to date was spent on other things.
Let's have a barbeque of all the politicians who thought their Mardi Gras party was more important than the city's safety. Solidus, you bring the firepits, Sharuuk can bring the skewers. I'll get the BBQ sauce.
Celebrity roast, cannibal style! Hey, it'd at least feed the people who lost their homes.
Let's have a barbeque of all the politicians who thought their Mardi Gras party was more important than the city's safety. Solidus, you bring the firepits, Sharuuk can bring the skewers. I'll get the BBQ sauce.Celebrity roast, cannibal style!
Hey, it'd at least feed the people who lost their homes.I'm lost. I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back, please ask me to wait. Thanks.
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Shyal_malkes
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SolidusRaccoon
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And we could use Michael Moore as a floating island. Could fit a few hundred people on his rear end alone.
Yes, sir. I agree completely. It takes a well-balanced individual... such as yourself to rule the world. No, sir. No one knows that you were the third one... Solidus. ...What should I do about the woman? Yes sir. I'll keep her under surveillance. Yes. Thank you. Good-bye...... Mr. President.
That is some real estate I don't want to lay claim to ...SolidusRaccoon wrote:And we could use Michael Moore as a floating island. Could fit a few hundred people on his rear end alone.
Though I suspect you could get enough natural gas to more than make up what is being lost at present.
Pax,
Richard
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"We are all fallen creatures and all very hard to live with", C. S. Lewis
Richard
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"We are all fallen creatures and all very hard to live with", C. S. Lewis
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UncleMonty
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I've just read that one of the delays in getting Federal help into New Orleans, was the Governor of Louisiana's refusal to declare a state of emergency and request Federal assistance. Until a state governor does so, there are apparently laws limiting Federal action.
I haven't found any substantiating evidence for this item yet, so I'm not going to claim it as fact, but it does seem to fit what I see as an emerging pattern of incompetence and corruption in Louisiana.
In any case, here's some more local-area information, from Mississippi this time.
http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/
I haven't found any substantiating evidence for this item yet, so I'm not going to claim it as fact, but it does seem to fit what I see as an emerging pattern of incompetence and corruption in Louisiana.
In any case, here's some more local-area information, from Mississippi this time.
http://www.sunherald.com/mld/sunherald/
Avoid those who speak badly of the people, for such wish to rule over you.
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SolidusRaccoon
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Interesting points, thanks for bringing it up.
Yes, sir. I agree completely. It takes a well-balanced individual... such as yourself to rule the world. No, sir. No one knows that you were the third one... Solidus. ...What should I do about the woman? Yes sir. I'll keep her under surveillance. Yes. Thank you. Good-bye...... Mr. President.
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SolidusRaccoon
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Long before the Superdome,
Where the Saints of football play,
There's a city where the damned call home,
Hear their hellish rondelet:
New Orleans!
Home of pirates, drunks, and whores...
New Orleans!
Tacky, overpriced souvenir stores...
If you want to go to hell, you should take a trip
To the Sodom and Gomorrah of the Mississip':
New Orleans!
Stinking, rotten, vomiting, vile...
New Orleans!
Putrid, brackish, maggotty, foul...
New Orleans!
Crummy, lousy, rancid and rank...
New Orleans!
Where the Saints of football play,
There's a city where the damned call home,
Hear their hellish rondelet:
New Orleans!
Home of pirates, drunks, and whores...
New Orleans!
Tacky, overpriced souvenir stores...
If you want to go to hell, you should take a trip
To the Sodom and Gomorrah of the Mississip':
New Orleans!
Stinking, rotten, vomiting, vile...
New Orleans!
Putrid, brackish, maggotty, foul...
New Orleans!
Crummy, lousy, rancid and rank...
New Orleans!
Yes, sir. I agree completely. It takes a well-balanced individual... such as yourself to rule the world. No, sir. No one knows that you were the third one... Solidus. ...What should I do about the woman? Yes sir. I'll keep her under surveillance. Yes. Thank you. Good-bye...... Mr. President.
And now it's even rather dank...SolidusRaccoon wrote:Long before the Superdome,
Where the Saints of football play,
There's a city where the damned call home,
Hear their hellish rondelet:
New Orleans!
Home of pirates, drunks, and whores...
New Orleans!
Tacky, overpriced souvenir stores...
If you want to go to hell, you should take a trip
To the Sodom and Gomorrah of the Mississip':
New Orleans!
Stinking, rotten, vomiting, vile...
New Orleans!
Putrid, brackish, maggotty, foul...
New Orleans!
Crummy, lousy, rancid and rank...
New Orleans!
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SolidusRaccoon
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It is an improvment I think.
Yes, sir. I agree completely. It takes a well-balanced individual... such as yourself to rule the world. No, sir. No one knows that you were the third one... Solidus. ...What should I do about the woman? Yes sir. I'll keep her under surveillance. Yes. Thank you. Good-bye...... Mr. President.
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The JAM
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[...unWARP!!!]
Good evening.
Good evening.
That could be why the Mexican ship Papaloapan had to sit at port for almost one day before she received clearance to unload N tons of food, water, ambulances, mobile kitchens....UncleMonty wrote:I've just read that one of the delays in getting Federal help into New Orleans, was the Governor of Louisiana's refusal to declare a state of emergency and request Federal assistance. Until a state governor does so, there are apparently laws limiting Federal action.
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UncleMonty
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I was just looking over a cross-sectional map of the New Orleans area. If a flood had to happen, It's a good thing the breach occurred on the Lake Ponchartrain side. The normal water level of the Mississippi River, on the other side of the city, is about ten feet higher than that of the lake; which is itself about 10 feet above the average ground level there. Instead of 80 percent of New Orleans being flooded, it could have been 100 percent.
At least the levies have been patched and the pumps started up. As of yesterday, the flood was down to 60 percent. Once they've plowed the mud and debris from the roads, they'll be able to get trucks in to carry whatever is necessary in - or out - of the city.
As for the worst-flooded areas being populated by the poorest citizens, the poor lived there because the housing was cheaper. The housing was cheaper because the land was cheaper, and the land was cheaper because fewer people wanted to buy lots there - because the danger of flooding was greater.
It reminds me of a camping trip I was invited to share, in the Ouichita Mountains area of Oklahoma. The weather looked like rain, so I chose a slightly higher grassy area than my friends. They chose a flat sandy area a little lower to set up their big wall tent. It looked like a dry riverbed to me, and unsuprisingly became a wet riverbed that night. They ended up sleeping in the car, while I remained snug and smugly comfy in my little 2-man tent.
Well, not all that comfy... The winds were blowing hard enough to make my tent shake annoyingly...
At least the levies have been patched and the pumps started up. As of yesterday, the flood was down to 60 percent. Once they've plowed the mud and debris from the roads, they'll be able to get trucks in to carry whatever is necessary in - or out - of the city.
As for the worst-flooded areas being populated by the poorest citizens, the poor lived there because the housing was cheaper. The housing was cheaper because the land was cheaper, and the land was cheaper because fewer people wanted to buy lots there - because the danger of flooding was greater.
It reminds me of a camping trip I was invited to share, in the Ouichita Mountains area of Oklahoma. The weather looked like rain, so I chose a slightly higher grassy area than my friends. They chose a flat sandy area a little lower to set up their big wall tent. It looked like a dry riverbed to me, and unsuprisingly became a wet riverbed that night. They ended up sleeping in the car, while I remained snug and smugly comfy in my little 2-man tent.
Well, not all that comfy... The winds were blowing hard enough to make my tent shake annoyingly...
Avoid those who speak badly of the people, for such wish to rule over you.
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SolidusRaccoon
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Just leagve the city, rebuild elsewhere.
Yes, sir. I agree completely. It takes a well-balanced individual... such as yourself to rule the world. No, sir. No one knows that you were the third one... Solidus. ...What should I do about the woman? Yes sir. I'll keep her under surveillance. Yes. Thank you. Good-bye...... Mr. President.
It's interesting how much more people are interested in the catastrophy in New Orleans than in, for instance, Dafur. Or when more than a thousand people were killed in Iraq during a religious festivity.
Please tell me; where do you hide the threads where you express your sympathies for the starving kids in Africa, the child-prostitution in Asia or the countless other human catastrophies around the world?
Please tell me; where do you hide the threads where you express your sympathies for the starving kids in Africa, the child-prostitution in Asia or the countless other human catastrophies around the world?
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SolidusRaccoon
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In our Secret Society Of Super Villains forum.
Yes, sir. I agree completely. It takes a well-balanced individual... such as yourself to rule the world. No, sir. No one knows that you were the third one... Solidus. ...What should I do about the woman? Yes sir. I'll keep her under surveillance. Yes. Thank you. Good-bye...... Mr. President.