Ohhhhhhhh nasty

Madmoonie · Post by **Madmoonie** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:41 am

I thought will ignorance was stupidity.

Shyal_malkes · Post by **Shyal_malkes** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:57 am

ignorance is measured in how much obviousness you can ignore

...how hard your mental shell is (outside)

stupidity is measured in how much you know and realize you should know but do the ooppoisite or perpendicular anyway.

...how deep the stupidity is (inside)

the stupid and ignorant are basically an empty shell with adamantium shielding, can't even hear something rattling in there.

CasVeg · Post by **CasVeg** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:21 pm

There's something to rattle?

LoneWolf23k · Post by **LoneWolf23k** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:29 pm

The JAM wrote: Good going, Ben!!

Though I doubt this deterrent will solve anything. Penny & her friend will very likely take their business elsewhere

I dunno, that kid definetly seemed to have gotten "the message" to me..

Fusion · Post by **Fusion** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:04 pm

Yeh, looks like Ben found a way to really make it sink in.

Squeaky Bunny · Post by **Squeaky Bunny** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:30 pm

shyal_malkes wrote:I think there were numerous situations where people were "fixed" so as to help htem focus on their other duties, I hear that bulls, if castrated end up putting the unused energy to making more meat on their bodies for the butcher.

I'm surprised nothing has been said about the castrati. (boy singers who get castrated pre-puberty to keep their soprano voice)

UncleMonty · Post by **UncleMonty** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:31 pm

Madmoonie wrote:I thought will ignorance was stupidity.

Pretty close, according to the rules of my little world...
I count ignorance as forgivable. Since nobody can know everything, we are all ignorant of something. Stupidity sounds like "stupor" to me, depicting a torpid not-quite-awake state.
So to me, stupidity is mental laziness. Just plain not thinking.

Willful ignorance is actively avoiding knowing something. I am willfully ignorant of my boss's LAN password, for instance. While he types it in, I deliberately look away. So willful ignorance can be a good thing though it is more often not.

So my take on the "cats-in-heat" front-porch follies is: They were acting pretty stupid.

Squeaky Bunny · Post by **Squeaky Bunny** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:38 pm

Kerry Skydancer wrote:Got that right. Ignorance can be cured if you ask for help. Even stupidity can be helped. It's only willful ignorance that deserves the death penalty.

Not quite. Ignorance is not knowing something, that can be corrected. Stupidity is the inability to learn.

Madmoonie · Post by **Madmoonie** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 7:42 pm

I disagree. Just because someone is unable to learn something, in my opinion, does make them stupid or ignorant. Ignorance is not knowing something, which in and of itself is not a bad thing. Stupidity is knowing that you are ignorant, but are too stubborn or idiotic to change it.

Things like information you could find out but have the respect for others not to, like passwrods and such, does not apply in this situation.

Kerry Skydancer · Post by **Kerry Skydancer** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 9:54 pm

Hmm. I see I need to provide my own definitions.

Ignorance is not knowing something, with the connotation of not having had the opportunity to learn it.

Stupidity is the -inability- to learn something, generally coupled with a lack of common sense. It is a disability, but can be worked around with help.

Wilfull ignorance is the refusal to learn something you should know when granted the opportunity. It is a form of stupidity, but not the only form. This can be anything from refusal to learn something that would make you a better worker to arguing with specialists in a field when the arguer hasn't actually studied it.

Deliberately maintaining ignorance of something you should -not- know, especially in a security situation, does not qualify as wilfull ignorance.

Starfury · Post by **Starfury** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 12:39 am

Wow. It seems my personal views on "Stupid," vs "Ignorence," are in the vast minority. I always thought of Ingnorence as being "I do not know that fact." Stupidity on ther other hand was the inability to properly use the information at hand.

A case in point. where my dad works, (a flight sim shop), they have to shut down if lightning gets too close. Fired Pilot Trainee is not to be served up here. Now, one of the higher ups gpt it in his head that because some of the c-130 (I think) sims got big huge UPSs (Uninteruptible Power Sources), the sims can stay up in a storm. He has taken the sim tech courses, and in theory understand the principles on which the sims and their power supply's work. So he should know that a lightning hit will cook off any and all sims hooked up to the UPSs....

He has the Info, but cannot properly use it. Stupid.

Anyway, that was my take on it. Its cool to see just how much our definitions can differ.

NydaLynn · Post by **NydaLynn** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 9:50 am

Well now... is Penny being ignorant of the consequences of her actions? Or is she willfully stuborn in ignoring them or thinking the natural laws of pregnancy and other biological functions don't apply to her?

Shyal_malkes · Post by **Shyal_malkes** » Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:17 am

so long as we're all arguing over stupidity and ignorance let me just throw dumb and idiotic out there.

Earl McClaw · Post by **Earl McClaw** » Sat Aug 13, 2005 6:31 pm

NydaLynn wrote:Well now... is Penny being ignorant of the consequences of her actions? Or is she willfully stuborn in ignoring them or thinking the natural laws of pregnancy and other biological functions don't apply to her?

You've made contact with another factor. It's one thing to have information available, or even know it and admit it's true. It's quite another to understand that information and how it affects you.

One of the common comments about the young is that the feel (or act as if they feel) they are immortal. Few of them have recognized their own mortality, either from actions or disease. Many think they can beat the odds. So yes, Penny probably may think she won't get pregnant. Or she may be putting up a false front to rebel.

Think of it this way: Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.

RHJunior · Post by **RHJunior** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 10:37 am

In penny's case, we're getting into the area of <I>denial.</i>

People have an incredible array of mental tricks whereby they convince themselves of things that are not possibly true and cannot possibly be true.

Terry Goodkind called it "Wizard's First Rule: People are stupid. They will believe a lie either because they FEAR it is true, or because they WISH it was true."

LeiraHoward · Post by **LeiraHoward** » Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:17 pm

To (possibly) quell the discussion on meanings of words....

Ignorance

The lack of knowledge or education
The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed.

Stupidity
The quality or condition of being stupid.
A stupid act, remark, or idea.
A poor ability to understand or to profit from experience

Stupid
1. Slow to learn or understand; obtuse.
2. Tending to make poor decisions or careless mistakes.
3. Marked by a lack of intelligence or care; foolish or careless: a stupid mistake.
4. Dazed, stunned, or stupefied.
5. Pointless; worthless: a stupid job.

Sources: The American Heritage

SolidusRaccoon · Post by **SolidusRaccoon** » Mon Aug 15, 2005 3:50 am

Slap some sense into her, use my cluebat.

Somber Cat · Post by **Somber Cat** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:01 pm

Without more input from Penny we can only presume. It could be that she's acting on pure physicality... it feels good so do it. Doubtful as she is specifically critical of Lily's values on the matter. It could be that she's acting on peer impulse; doing what she things she should be doing in order to be a valid member of her peer group / school. It could be deeper psychological or identity issues at play.

We don't have enough information from the male to do more then speculate. Hormones? Is he a pathological user of girls? Does he have sincere if immature feelings for Penny? Or has he singled her out sensing her vulnerable state? I approve of Ben's intercession. His means may be questionable, but they are undoubtably effective!

"Debating with bears is like suing tigers... a difficult proposition."

Somber

StrangeWulf13 · Post by **StrangeWulf13** » Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:17 pm

Somber Cat wrote:"Debating with bears is like suing tigers... a difficult proposition."

And both have a tendency to leave claw marks. Hard to cover those up with make-up.

Not that I know that personally, but...

Hmm... funny... Somber's the first one I've seen to actually sympathize with Penny. He hasn't written it off as teenage angst.

Wonder why?

Somber Cat · Post by **Somber Cat** » Sun Aug 28, 2005 9:31 am

Probably because I'm a girl who went through a very similar phase right around 15-16ish. It was horrible. Everyone hated me and I did everything I could to be as spiteful, snide, and obstinate as possible. Then I went lesbian and most of that spite and snideness evaporated.

"The Obstinate is genetic though."

Somber

PS: I doubt that Penny is gay. I wouldn't be surprised if she said she was to tweek off Ben and Lily, but I doubt she is. Still, RHJ might pull a shocker on me... but again I doubt it. Homosexuality doesn't exist in his world, good bad or otherwise. His perogative.