Ahhh yes...

[Sharuuk]

Now if you want fairly mediocre SciFi, "Buch Rogers in the 25th Century". Not too bad on the storylines, but GOD did I have the MAJOR HOTS for Erin Gray (Col. Deering) And YES, I think she was WAAAY prettier than Ardala (Pamela Hensley).

I DID like Thom Christopher as Hawk. The episodes with him and Buck as a team were quite enjoyable.

[Mjolnir]

And the best art is that Erin Grey still looks exactly the same today. We were at a convention where she and Gil Gerard were appearing and my jaw just about hit the floor. 20 years later and she's still just as hot.

Oh, and the Klingon chick, Vixis, she was 1st fficer of the Bird of Pey in Star Trek V.

- Mjolnir

[Sharuuk]

And the best part is that Erin Grey still looks exactly the same today. We were at a convention where she and Gil Gerard were appearing and my jaw just about hit the floor. 20 years later and she's still just as hot.

Now that's great to hear....that is one pretty lady. I LOVED how she looked in those "sprayed-on" jumpsuits she wore. 8) How long ago was that? I saw Gil on a website and freaked at how much weight he'd gained.....he had to be pushing 250-270+.. ..he looked AWFUL!!! Was he that big at the con you were at?

Vixis.....thank you......couldn't remember but knew it was something like Valeris.

Shaaruuk

[Squeaky Bunny]

Why did you think Twiki was always saying Bede-bede-bede!

[Mjolnir]

Was he that big at the con you were at?

Yes, he was. He looked awful, but he was great to talk to.

- Mjolnir

[Mad Mike]

I can think of several things that irritated me about 'Buck Rogers', even as a kid:

1) The bad guys whose ships would get blown apart, but who suffered no apparent injury when they were captured/rescued, even without any form of protective gear like a space suit.
2) It would only take one shot to blow apart a bad guy's ship, but the heroes would take hit after hit with only minor damage (see also Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, etc.). This held true even in the pilot episode, when Buck's 20th century space ship survived a direct hit from one of Ardala's fighter craft with only a scorch mark - talk about American engineering prowess!
3) The fact that all of the bad guys flew the same model of fighter craft - must have all been purchased at the same used fighter sale...
4) Apparently, the midget in the Twikki costume (Felix Silla, I believe - he also played the freakish ODeeEx - Ocular Dynamics Experiment - in the same episode that guest-starred Mark Lenard) spoke Twikki's lines during shooting, but he was dubbed out later with the deeper voice we recognize as Twikki - EXCEPT for one or two episodes where the voice actor was unavailable and they left Felix's voice in, causing Twikki to sound like he was breathing helium.
5) The several infamous 'recap' episodes, where the writers cobbled together scenes from earlier episodes to produce something that was subpar even for this series. Note - I'm not sure, but I believe 'Buck Rogers' holds the record for the most 'recap' episodes per season.

I could go on, but you get the point.

[Sharuuk]

Agreed. Many of those very points just drove me up the walls......but suspending ALL manners of believability as well as reality, which is what shows like this were and are all about, they were still enjoyable.

You want aggrevation? How 'bout the baddies are all looking for Buck everywhere and they repeatedly run right by him in this little nook in the wall that anyone with even lousy peripheral vision would see. Top that off with the fact that he's wearing that signature glare white Directorate jump suit but as far as the baddies are concerned he's invisible.

"Cattlecar Barfalactica"

Starbuck and Apollo in this hot firefight with a crapload of Cylons, they're taggin' them left and right at some ridiculous ranges with sidearms with almost 90% hit rates, and then continually miss nearly point blank shots against massed targets. And never even get grazed while everybody around them is getting smoked.

Need I go on??


Shaaruuk

[Sharuuk]

Why did you think Twiki was always saying Bede-bede-bede!

Pilot movie.....when he sees Ardala...."Bede bede bede....what a body!"

Several of Twiki's lines were ad libs on Mel Blanc's part. Remember when he and Theo were hiding in the refer unit....Bede, bede "I'm freezing my ball bearings off."


Shaaruuk

[Squeaky Bunny]

But Twiki never said to Dr. Heur "What's up doc?"

[Sharuuk]

But Twiki never said to Dr. Heur "What's up doc?"

Not in the pilot movie....but I think he did say it once in one of the episodes. Of course it flew right over Huer's and Wilma's heads, which was the comedy object. Tim O'Conner was just perfect for the part of Elias Huer.....brilliant and dedicated, while at the same time, occasionally clueless and befuddled when it came to dealing with Buck's 20th Century humor and idiosyncrasies.

[LoneWolf23k]

You want aggrevation? How 'bout the baddies are all looking for Buck everywhere and they repeatedly run right by him in this little nook in the wall that anyone with even lousy peripheral vision would see. Top that off with the fact that he's wearing that signature glare white Directorate jump suit but as far as the baddies are concerned he's invisible.

Oh, that's just Buck rolling a Critical Success in his Stealth roll and the GM rolling Critical Failures in the guards' Perception rolls.

Starbuck and Apollo in this hot firefight with a crapload of Cylons, they're taggin' them left and right at some ridiculous ranges with sidearms with almost 90% hit rates, and then continually miss nearly point blank shots against massed targets. And never even get grazed while everybody around them is getting smoked.

Starbuck and Apollo must have very high Beam Weapons Skills and Dodge skills.

...Sorry, I've been crunching RPG numbers all week; is it noticible?

[Squeaky Bunny]

Uh, does that mean that in this case D & D means dumb and dumber?

[Sharuuk]

...Sorry, I've been crunching RPG numbers all week; is it noticible?

Only if I squint....!

[Sharuuk]

Uh, does that mean that in this case D & D means dumb and dumber?

Pretty close I'd say. Or at least Dumb & Dumber LUCK!!!

How'd the Hamcation (like a Hamfest?) go? Find what you needed?

[Sharuuk]

[Starbuck and Apollo must have very high Beam Weapons Skills and Dodge skills.

Maybe for long range, but close in....their Beam Weapons Skills SUCK!!! I've them miss shots that I could have literally made with my eyes CLOSED!!

[Firemane]

As to the other thing... I'd like to suggest something here that I encourage in all other forums. Documentation. If you want to refute another person's point, it really helps to list your sources. Otherwise, it ends up being like an argument between two children: "Is Not!" and "Is So!", ad nauseum.

Actually, while that can work in most cases, religion and politics are exceptions to the rule. Christians point to the New Testament, Jews point to the Old testament (the Torah, right, TGIF?), Muslims point to the Koran, and atheists and pagans point to their own sources, and most sides couldn't care less about each other's references. The same with politics - each side has its own sources, none of which mean jack-squat to the other groups. Kind of a losing proposition, any way you look at it.

That's a good point, and a darn shame. Even if you aren't Christian, it's not a bad idea to read the Bible. Nothing irritates the self-righteous like proving that you know what they're talking about better than they do. Likewise with other religions. I've read books by Hari Krishnas, books on Buddism, books on Wicca, I got partway through the Book of Mormon but I really couldn't seem to get into it, and I'm sure there are a bunch of others that I've forgotten. So when someone like Beltane decapitates a chicken in the lunchroom and goes ballistic over the ornaments... I can point out to her where she's violating her own religious code.

On that same note... I've shopped around and to my surprise my search for Truth led me back to Christianity (which is more or less where I started). So, as a Christian, I'd like to ask a favor of all you other Christians out there.

First: Stop calling yourself Christians if you aren't going to at least TRY to live up to it!

Seriously, you wonder why people have knee-jerk reactions about religion, this is it. There is a lot of room for interpretation in the Bible, but Jesus Christ was pretty clear on the major points. "Do unto others" does not have an escape clause. "Forgive your brother not seven times, but seven times seventy times" is also pretty straightforward. There is no room in the Good News for "Eye for an Eye and Tooth for a Tooth". That is the Old Covenant (actually, Eye for an Eye is more along the lines of the Law of Hamarabi... when people argue the Bible is the basis of all law, point them toward the Babylonians) and those who live and judge according to the Old Covenant will be judged by the Old Covenant. The New Covenant (embodied by Christ) is very straight-forward. Keep the Ten Commandments + The Golden Rule. That's, what... 11 things to keep track of? Instead of hundreds? That seems like a better deal to me.

"Forgive us our trespasses (sins) as we forgive those who trespass against us"... isn't that a pretty good exchange rate? I know it isn't easy. *BELIEVE ME*, I know. I am prone to anger and strife, so this has not been an easy lesson to learn. It is human nature to judge and condemn others. But in a way, that's what this is all about, overcoming that darker side of human nature. I know that when someone kicks you in the jimmy, it's natural to want to hit them back, twice as hard (after you get done with the fetal position, of course). But that's not what Jesus preached. Does this mean there is no room for Justice? Not at all. If someone has comitted murder, forgiving them doesn't mean you ignore what they've done, or the danger they continue to pose to the rest of society.

As much as it stings to admit it, Osama is my brother, according to Christ. And I have to try and understand his actions and forgive him. That doesn't mean letting him remain free. It might not even mean letting him live, if there isn't another alternative. But responding with "You hate me and what I stand for, so I will hate you" gives him a power over us that he doesn't deserve.

Put another way, when you see a rabid dog in the street, you don't hate the dog. You don't go up and wrestle with the dog and infect yourself. You pity it for its madness, understand the cause, and shoot it from as far away as possible.

Second: Stop spreading your confusion to others.

If you find something in the Bible that doesn't make sense to you, the answer isn't "Oh, well, I'm sure somebody understands it", the answer is to get off your lazy rump and figure it out. Taken in its proper literary and historical context, the Bible (Old Testament and New) makes perfect sense. It is not contradictory. Telling people "Yeah, the Bible doesn't make sense to me but I believe it anyway in defiance of logic" only gives credence to those who believe that all Christians are irrational zealots. I'll admit it took me several years to put all the pieces together, but if *I* can do it, so can you. I mean, if your life is going to revolve around your religion... if you're going to make your decisions based on the wisdom in a book... doesn't it make sense to make sure you have some basic understanding of how that book was created? Talk about citing your sources, people nowadays base their decisions off literal translations of second- and third-hand reinterpretations of a book that doesn't even read in the same direction as the original language!

As for politics... I'm still trying to figure that one out myself. I've been exploring other news outlets in the hope of finding an unbiased source of information... the best I can find so far are the ones that admit their bias up front.

Still, at least you're ahead of the game in that you *understand* that others won't necessarily respect your Source of Wisdom of choice. Many people go their entire lives without figuring that out.

It is not my intention to offend anyone here. I know everyone here has strongly held beliefs, and you have a right to your belief, no matter how much (or how little) sense it may make. But since I started reading this forum a few weeks ago I have been amazed at some of the statements that have been made by Christians *about* Christianity. Having recently rediscovered the faith, I am loathe to see it maligned, especially by those who claim it.

Firemane

[RKCoon]

Some very excellent points, Firemane. THo i am not Christian (and, in fact, very proud of such), Your quite right, very often, those claiming to a faith dont have a clue in thier hell what they are talking about. THis is by no means limitied to Christianity mind you; I cant count the number of times ive shut people down with thier own bibles of whatever form, and ive never even read any bible from one end to another; i find it simpler, and calmer on my nerves, to punch up the quotes and check notes.

I do have to say tho...I personally would not use the term "brother" to describe how others are in relation to me. i have no brother, i was not born into a family where i had brothers, and i only have one mother and father, my biological parents. i refuse to call someone a "brother" "sister", "father", or so on based on a religion i do not subscribe to. We ARE, however, all Humans, as disgusting as i find that term on occasion, we are all of the same physical base setup, and living on the same ball of rock and gas; therefore, even when others go out of thier way to screw with or harm others, or this world, there are some things we just dont DO, in reprisal, or itll never end. Sooner or later, i also beleive, the human race HAS to learn to simply say "I am not going to kill today." (trekkie fans should recognise that. ) cause that IS all it takes, knowing we will not kill today.

Sadly, many places, many people, and indeed, many faiths refuse to even accept this simple notion, and, again sadly, one must be able to say "I WILL kill or do what is needed to defend whats mine --- withOUT being the butchers others are."

Just another thought too, while we are on the topic --- First off, would someone mind explaining, in your own words, just what this "golden rule" is? second, do the ideas for you, as Christians, for the ten commandments follow this base, as ive seen it summarised elsewhere?

The Ten Commandments given to Moses are these: (abbreviated form)

I. I am the Lord your God. You shall have no other gods before me.
2 You shall not make for yourself an idol to worship.
3. You shall not make wrongful use of the name of God.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
5. Honor your father and mother.
6. You shall not kill.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet anything that is your neighbor's.

[Yuoofox]

Dear R. K. Coon,

Hello. First of all, I

[Firemane]

Some very excellent points, Firemane. THo i am not Christian (and, in fact, very proud of such), Your quite right, very often, those claiming to a faith dont have a clue in thier hell what they are talking about. THis is by no means limitied to Christianity mind you; I cant count the number of times ive shut people down with thier own bibles of whatever form, and ive never even read any bible from one end to another; i find it simpler, and calmer on my nerves, to punch up the quotes and check notes.

That's kind of the problem, though. The Bible can't be understood in TV sound-bite format. You should approach it the same way you approach any other ancient literature, be it Beowolf, Chaucer, or Shakespear: Read it completely, then take the time to understand what the author was trying to say.

Of course, if your goal is just to irritate the person you're debating with by pulling the scriptural rug out from under them, then that's a different story.

I do have to say tho...I personally would not use the term "brother" to describe how others are in relation to me. i have no brother, i was not born into a family where i had brothers, and i only have one mother and father, my biological parents. i refuse to call someone a "brother" "sister", "father", or so on based on a religion i do not subscribe to.

I think the use of the term "brother" (or "sister") is appropriate. I *do* have a brother, a step-sister, and a half-sister, multiple "mothers" including one biological, and a father. Here's the thing about brothers: You love them. You might not *like* them, or get along with them, but you do love them, because you share a bond of family. My brother has exasperated everyone else in my family with his behavior, to the point where many of us have had to draw the line and say "we can't help you until you're willing to help yourself", but that doesn't mean we don't still love and cherish him.

Just another thought too, while we are on the topic --- First off, would someone mind explaining, in your own words, just what this "golden rule" is? second, do the ideas for you, as Christians, for the ten commandments follow this base, as ive seen it summarised elsewhere?

The Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

This same basic principle is the underlying philosophy of almost every positive faith that I've encountered. It appears in almost every culture in some form. In a way this is why Christianity never *needed* an organized church... Christianity was designed to be reverse-compatible and easily assimilated.

The Ten Commandments given to Moses are these: (abbreviated form)

Let me go through these with you.

I. I am the Lord your God. You shall have no other gods before me.
2 You shall not make for yourself an idol to worship.

I'd really like to find someone who is more knowledgable in ancient Hebrew than I am (which isn't hard, I know almost nothing on the subject, except that it's easy to misunderstand) to give me alternate translations of that first one. It is tempting to take "You shall have no other gods *before* me" literally and hazzard a guess that pantheism is permissible, provided that God is still #1. Of course, I'm still working on developing an understanding of what "God" is, so the question may prove irrelevant.

3. You shall not make wrongful use of the name of God.

This is a different translation from what I normally see, and I rather like it. What is making "wrongful use" of the name of God? Using God to extort money from people? Using God (or Jesus) as an exclamatory? This translation has a better depth to it than "Thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain". Doesn't mean it's more accurate, but I still like it.

4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Ah, the commandment we consider least, but might be most important. Seriously, what could be better than taking one day out of your busy week to relax, play around a little, and think about God? The Hebrews were an industrious people, after all, and I think God realized that they (and we) need a little reminder to take time out to consider *why* we work the rest of the week.

5. Honor your father and mother.

This is another one that really gets people. Note that "honor" is not identical with "obey", "agree with", or even "like". Depending on how you gloss the phrase, it is either "bring honor to" or "respect" your parents. Most people go for the latter translation, but I'll admit I like the former as well.

6. You shall not kill.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet anything that is your neighbor's.

And of course, the big mistranslation is in #6: Thou Shalt not *MURDER*

This is a *very* important distinction. Seriously, think about it. Most of the Old Testament is a history of the Hebrew people. They fought war after bloody war. How would you maintain an army that wasn't allowed to kill? "Killing" is permissible. Murder is not. Murder is the unjustified killing of another person. Is meat Murder? Yes, if you consider an animal a "person". (I don't. Throw red paint on me if you like. Of course, I'm not sure all humans qualify as people either, but I'm currently giving them the benefit of the doubt.) Is Abortion Murder?

That one is tricky, isn't it? Abortion *is* killing, and the Pro-Choice song and dance on the subject is rediculous. But killing isn't identical with murder. The question is, at what point does a mass of tissue become a person, with personal rights? I have to admit that I'm not sure. It's possible to argue that by killing the fertilized egg, you are preventing a person from coming into being, but following that logic (which seems to me to be the foundation of Catholic doctrine) suggests that any form of birth control is murder. Following it a step farther suggests that abstinence is also murder (because you are preventing a person from coming into being by refraining from the causal actions). I'm not willing to agree with that. There has to be a point at which you go from being a lump of flesh to being a person, but as I've said before, I'm not even sure that fully grown humans are automatically "persons". The problem with defining "person" is that you either define it too narrowly and exclude those you feel should be protected... or you define it too widely and have to conceed rights to organisms that you feel don't merit them (such as those that taste good when marinated).

Now, personally, I feel that if you can't define and justify, for yourself, the point at which human tissue becomes a person, then you should probably err on the side of caution rather than convenience. But of course, it's easy for me to say that. I'm male and divorced and the likelihood of me ever having to make that decision are negligible.

I feel compelled, after meandering through so many subjects, to point out that it has been suggested, with all seriousness, that I simply think too much. What do you think?

Firemane

[RKCoon]

Hmm. Curious. two people, of apparently the same faith, yet two separate views of such? o.O For example, the "golden rule" appears to differ to me. However, more to the point i suppose, how is it that, as ive seen, people of the faith say "while it is written such and so, what is meant is different"? i find it odd that such would be said, to me, if you say something, MEAN it, otherwise dont bother saying it -- unless your deliberately aiming for misconceptions. Further, to me, it seems there is much contradictory to the bible itself, and more so, when you compare, say, the christian bibles to the US Declaration of Independance, or the US Constitution. not completely contradictory, but many points within each do not jell at all. however thats not the point, point is, Im curious as to the varying views of the faith by those of it. so please, id like to hear some more before i coment too deeply.