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Ok, in spite of the "Freedom from Religion" getting locked, I wanted to give RKCoon some of my ten cents about him speaking for all Canadians...

-About "If 9/11 had happened to us": ...Sorry, but I find your claim that we Canadians would go off into Afghanistan on our lonesome and hope to win to be ridiculous. After a Decade and a Half of Canada being under the boot of a Liberal Goverment, our armed forces have been budget-cutted into a laughable mess. Our choppers don't fly, our jeeps break down, our soldiers get equipped with jungle camouflage when sent into the deserts, and the less I say about the Chicoutimi disaster, the better.

Simply put, if the Canadian government ever got into it's head to start a war with anyone, we'd have to beg for outside help just to avoid humiliating defeat.

-About "Accountability of the leader" and "removing a tyrant"; did it ever occur to you that maybe the Iraqis didn't overthrow Saddam simply because he and his cronies had more military power at their disposal? The main reason the French Revolution was possible was because by that point, even the french military was divided and couldn't overpower the rebelling peasants.

Or, to use a more modern exemple: The Romanian dictators, the Ceaucescus; by the time the people were so pissed off they started revolting en masse, even their own army hated them to the point they turned on their masters and rebelled right along with them.

The only reason that didn't happen in Iraq was because Saddam's elite guard, the best trained and best equipped, were also fanatically loyal to him. Everyone else, including the "People's Army", were little more then virtual slaves scared into submission by them. It wasn't until the Coalition knocked the teeth out of the Baathist Regime's that the people actually started rebelling, finally doing what they'd waited all their lives to do.

As for your question: "When do the people take responsibility for their government?" The answer, at least when you're in a democracy, is "During Every Election", of course. Americans took responsibility for their government last November. We Canadians took responsibility for our government during our last election, and the Iraqis took responsibility for their government for the first time last Sunday.

It's called Democracy. Just because it doesn't give you the results you'd like all the time, doesn't mean it's worthless. Personally, last election, I voted for the Conservative Party of Canada. But, seeing as I live in Quebec, the hopes of my vote actually making a big difference where sadly shot down: damn near everyone in Quebec either votes Liberal or Quebec Nationalist (be it Parti Quebecois or Bloc Quebecois). Does this mean I won't vote in the next elections? Of course not! I'm voting Conservative next time again.

As for the war between Canada and the US, I know the facts behind that.. It was actually more of a fight between Canada's British Armed Force contigents and a more disorganized ramnant of the US army decades after the Revolutionary War. The Brits were in full fighting form, and the Americans had all but disbanded their army.

...If that war were to be refought nowadays, all that would end up resulting would be Canada's 10 Provinces and 3 Territories becoming US States 51 through 63.

*thinks about it* ...On second thought...

ON BEHALF OF CANADA, I HEREBY DECLARE WAR ON THE USA! BRING IT ON, YANKEES!

There.. Maybe after we've been annexed, we might get a competant government.

LoneWolf23k wrote:The main reason the French Revolution was possible was because by that point, even the french military was divided and couldn't overpower the rebelling peasants.

That, and the new US Government helped out by giving S-Mart brand Boomsticks (Shop smart, Shop S-MART!!!) to the people in thanks for the French help they gave the rebels when the Colonies fought against the King (they sent us several thousand soldiers to augment our rag-tag outfit, and nearly a quarter of them went home in boxes...few people remember how Frenchmen died for our freedom, but then again, they were different people back then), and in thanks for our help in freeing them, the new French government gave us Lady Liberty.

Saaayyyy What?

LoneWolf23k wrote:Ok, in spite of the "Freedom from Religion" getting locked, I wanted to give RKCoon some of my ten cents about him speaking for all Canadians...

-About "If 9/11 had happened to us": ...Sorry, but I find your claim that we Canadians would go off into Afghanistan on our lonesome and hope to win to be ridiculous. After a Decade and a Half of Canada being under the boot of a Liberal Goverment, our armed forces have been budget-cutted into a laughable mess. Our choppers don't fly, our jeeps break down, our soldiers get equipped with jungle camouflage when sent into the deserts, and the less I say about the Chicoutimi disaster, the better.

IF Canada suffered a 911 similar attack -- which by itself is a preposterous notion, given our reknowned, honoured and respected status thruout the world, with the exception being our southern neighbors -- It is all but a garantee that the people of Canada, as they have in our past, would ralley together to deal with whatever nonsence may arise. I wont argue about the pathetic state of our military, but if the Canadian people gotta kick in thier Peace-enspired complacancy, you REALLY think itd take long for us to cure that? I do not.


Simply put, if the Canadian government ever got into it's head to start a war with anyone, we'd have to beg for outside help just to avoid humiliating defeat.

Theres your next error -- Canada does not, nor has not EVER, started wars. Unlike SOME. Canada would not start one, but if someone started with us, well, ask the Nazis how powerful we were, paticularly for a small populace country. In fact, when it came to a fighting force of WW2, the only ones more feared that the Canadian infantry by the Nazis, were the "Laddies from Hell" aka the Scots.

-About "Accountability of the leader" and "removing a tyrant"; did it ever occur to you that maybe the Iraqis didn't overthrow Saddam simply because he and his cronies had more military power at their disposal? The main reason the French Revolution was possible was because by that point, even the french military was divided and couldn't overpower the rebelling peasants.

Or, perhaps they didnt think him all THAT bad. if youd bother to do some checking, youd of found that in the 40 years that saddam WAS in power, he took a smashed, belly up third world country and made it into about as powerful as he could get it --- which included a LOT of wheeling and dealing with the US government and companies, up till as late as 1999. FUNNY, how shit like that gets swept under the rug. True, he was a tyrant -- but history has had a LOT fucking worse. But, neither of us were there --- so you tell me, what do you rely on for info? the US news? Me, i prefer talking to someone i know that is FROM Iraq.

Or, to use a more modern exemple: The Romanian dictators, the Ceaucescus; by the time the people were so pissed off they started revolting en masse, even their own army hated them to the point they turned on their masters and rebelled right along with them.

That is hardly what Id call modern -- how about something much more so? Like, saaaayyyy the assissination of JFK? Mind you, guess i cant use that, as while the people loved him -- it was his government that didnt.

The only reason that didn't happen in Iraq was because Saddam's elite guard, the best trained and best equipped, were also fanatically loyal to him. Everyone else, including the "People's Army", were little more then virtual slaves scared into submission by them. It wasn't until the Coalition knocked the teeth out of the Baathist Regime's that the people actually started rebelling, finally doing what they'd waited all their lives to do.

To an extent.. but i wonder, which is worse -- a people scared into submission, or a people psyched up into a war frenzy on total bullshit?

As for your question: "When do the people take responsibility for their government?" The answer, at least when you're in a democracy, is "During Every Election", of course. Americans took responsibility for their government last November. We Canadians took responsibility for our government during our last election, and the Iraqis took responsibility for their government for the first time last Sunday.

And if you beleive that, i gotta bridge in NY to sell you, cause, to be perfectly blunt, the elections as of late, both in the US and in Canada, have been a royal farce, on the Country scale at any rate.

It's called Democracy. Just because it doesn't give you the results you'd like all the time, doesn't mean it's worthless. Personally, last election, I voted for the Conservative Party of Canada. But, seeing as I live in Quebec, the hopes of my vote actually making a big difference where sadly shot down: damn near everyone in Quebec either votes Liberal or Quebec Nationalist (be it Parti Quebecois or Bloc Quebecois). Does this mean I won't vote in the next elections? Of course not! I'm voting Conservative next time again.

Ahh yes, Canada's black sheep for a province. Prolly one of the biggest headaches for our government in actually trying to ACCOMPLISH something is appeasing the naysayers in Quebec, who bloody well cant even decide weather they WANT to leave or not. Personally, I say let them -- then wait for a month when they come back realising how bloody stupid they were.

As for the war between Canada and the US, I know the facts behind that.. It was actually more of a fight between Canada's British Armed Force contigents and a more disorganized ramnant of the US army decades after the Revolutionary War. The Brits were in full fighting form, and the Americans had all but disbanded their army.

And if history had come out differently, the Remnants that attacked Canada would have been looked apon as heroes, the only reason they are not anyway as history would make it look very bad indeed.

...If that war were to be refought nowadays, all that would end up resulting would be Canada's 10 Provinces and 3 Territories becoming US States 51 through 63.

A) i think your off by a state or two --- as many are counting several other recently "occupied" countries as new US states. but then, unless they update thier flag i suppose not.
B)France, Germany, and a number of other countries and powers thought the same of Russia. Last I checked, every invasion of them, as well, they bearing very much similar geography and more importantly weather as Canada, had failed miserably. As someone who is somewhat the military student, i can assure you, an invasion of Canada would be as extremely difficult; once Canada's most potent weapon is brought into play -- Nature herself.

*thinks about it* ...On second thought...

ON BEHALF OF CANADA, I HEREBY DECLARE WAR ON THE USA! BRING IT ON, YANKEES!

Comments such as that leave little wonder why both Quebec and Canada's overall government is so flucked up.

There.. Maybe after we've been annexed, we might get a competant government.

Competant Government? Oh sure. Lets see what government your using as an example, the current US government. A government which has--
-Almost totaly Privatised health care, thereby ensuring only the wealthy get proper (or any in many cases) treatment
-A long history of violence against other nations
-hardly respected, aside of military might, across the planet
-Has multiplied its national debt
-has slashed benifits packages for its military men and women -- IN WARTIME
-has a convicted criminal for President (ooh THERES a promotional bellringer!)
-Blatantly lied about the invasion of its second conquest, Iraq (gee. they have STILL to find any nukes, biochems, or infastructure to BUILD any of the such)
-Gone great lengths to remove any gains made by human rights movements
-Has had the single biggest security breach of ANY country in history, resulting in over 3000 innocent civilian deaths - not counting those lost in the retaliatory strikes abroad
-Has withdrawn itself from the internationally recognised Court Of Law


SHALL I GO ON???


In short, LoneWolf, Your selling Canada FAR too short when it comes to our military AND our patriotism, and giving the US far too much credit, that it has not deserved in years. But then, considering your comments, I would expect no less from what we Canucks waaaaaay up north here call "a Yankee ass kisser". Your the kind we like to say "OPEN YOUR FUCKEN EYES YA STUPID CANUCK!!" And yes, being Canuck myself, i CAN say that.

RK, given that you are a citizen of another country, did not grow up in the American culture, have NO real understanding and no information other than what you get from a very biased liberal media, why do you feel you have the right to come here (so to speak) and slash at America? You sound like a replay of F 9/11. I'm not even going to address any of your comments because they're all old manure.

Your behavior is about like going to a party just to scream at the host.

Shall we list a few of Canada's warts and moles? Socialist government that has taken so much of the population's will that reproduction fell below replacement rate, so that the government now invites any third world dregs in just to have laborers? These are people so used to oppression they hardly notice it in Canada. And a nice pool of terrorists is accumulating.
How about denuding of sub arctic forests that will likely never grow back? Or continued farming of Atlantic salmon that have now escaped and which threaten runs of Pacific salmon? Or "mining" of peat moss that regenerates only on the order of thousands of years? While refusing to use minerals and oil that could greatly boost the standard of living.
Or taxes that make it necessary to pay over $40,000 for a $28,000 vehicle?
Or health care that means that a patient can literally die waiting to get treatment, and there is little or no incentive to even BECOME a doctor in Canada. Never mind what has happened to medical research.

In China, they make a military rifle that is essentially identical to those of other countries, but it uses ammunition that is just slightly larger. The result is that the enemy can't use their ammo if it's captured, but they can use enemy ammo.
You're using the wrong ammo and it's jammed your mental magazine.

Go find a topic you know, like macrame.

IF Canada suffered a 911 similar attack -- which by itself is a preposterous notion, given our reknowned, honoured and respected status thruout the world, with the exception being our southern neighbors -- It is all but a garantee that the people of Canada, as they have in our past, would ralley together to deal with whatever nonsence may arise. I wont argue about the pathetic state of our military, but if the Canadian people gotta kick in thier Peace-enspired complacancy, you REALLY think itd take long for us to cure that? I do not.

Uhm, let's see.. It would take us about a few trillion dollars to revamp our military, more then a few years to train more soldiers, and frankly, we'd have to grow out of the silly conceit that we can get respect as a country by being nice to the people who can blow our heads off. ...So, no, I don't think we could. ...And Canada isn't reknowned, honored or respected anywhere then in your imagination. At best, we're known as "those nice neighbors who live next door to the yankees," and at worst, folks go "Ain't that a part of the States?"

Theres your next error -- Canada does not, nor has not EVER, started wars. Unlike SOME. Canada would not start one, but if someone started with us, well, ask the Nazis how powerful we were, paticularly for a small populace country. In fact, when it came to a fighting force of WW2, the only ones more feared that the Canadian infantry by the Nazis, were the "Laddies from Hell" aka the Scots.

Some might argue that the Americans didn't start the War on Terror either: Al Qaida did. Back during WW2, Canada was just part of the british forces. And while we did get a decent reputation, we weren't "less feared then the Scots". Furthermore, it's a good thing that the Nazis never came to attack Canada itself, 'cause our navy never would've stopped it. Most of our ships didn't have any real cannons, just wooden mock-ups of cannons made for intimidation value.

Or, perhaps they didnt think him all THAT bad. if youd bother to do some checking, youd of found that in the 40 years that saddam WAS in power, he took a smashed, belly up third world country and made it into about as powerful as he could get it --- which included a LOT of wheeling and dealing with the US government and companies, up till as late as 1999. FUNNY, how shit like that gets swept under the rug. True, he was a tyrant -- but history has had a LOT fucking worse. But, neither of us were there --- so you tell me, what do you rely on for info? the US news? Me, i prefer talking to someone i know that is FROM Iraq.

They didn't think him all THAT BAD!? You're talking about a guy who used poison gasses on his own people, who's sons were allowed to kidnap, rape and kill any women they liked, who's goons used interrogation techniques Torquemada would've found inhumane, who sparked two wars that Irak lost at a great cost to his own people...

...And you STILL defend him!?

I'm sorry, RK, but I've lost all respect for you at this point. Kid Gloves Come Off Now. If you won't take my word for it, go ahead, go find someone from Irak who's family lived under Saddam's brutality, and ask them if they thought Saddam really was that bad.

...I'd pay to see them call you a frickin moron for such a stupid question.

That is hardly what Id call modern -- how about something much more so? Like, saaaayyyy the assissination of JFK? Mind you, guess i cant use that, as while the people loved him -- it was his government that didnt.

The Ceaucescus were overthrown in the 1980s. Apparantly, I know my European history better then you. And those guys, btw, had a track record which make Saddam look good.

And if you beleive that, i gotta bridge in NY to sell you, cause, to be perfectly blunt, the elections as of late, both in the US and in Canada, have been a royal farce, on the Country scale at any rate.

Considering your attitude towards Saddam, does this mean you'd prefer a Dictatorship? ...At least I have faith in the system. It may not always give you the result you'd like to see, but it's fairer then anything else.

Ahh yes, Canada's black sheep for a province. Prolly one of the biggest headaches for our government in actually trying to ACCOMPLISH something is appeasing the naysayers in Quebec, who bloody well cant even decide weather they WANT to leave or not. Personally, I say let them -- then wait for a month when they come back realising how bloody stupid they were.

Personally, I think Seperatism is an outdated political formula: we're now equal partners with Canada, and we have a good voice in Federal Parliament. We don't need to seperate; we got everything we were once denied prior to the rise of the Seperatists.

But still, as a response to your attitude towards Quebecois, have a harty Va te faire foutre from the Black Sheep.

A) i think your off by a state or two --- as many are counting several other recently "occupied" countries as new US states. but then, unless they update thier flag i suppose not.

And now that's just being ridiculously anti-american. Afghanistan isn't a US state, nor is Irak, as both had their own elections and are forming their own governments.

B)France, Germany, and a number of other countries and powers thought the same of Russia. Last I checked, every invasion of them, as well, they bearing very much similar geography and more importantly weather as Canada, had failed miserably. As someone who is somewhat the military student, i can assure you, an invasion of Canada would be as extremely difficult; once Canada's most potent weapon is brought into play -- Nature herself.

...Do I really need to point out how you're neglecting the logistics issues of A) Canada's population is mostly placed near the US boarder, B) The US Army ain't gonna be stupid enough to attack during our snow storms, and C) Canada's army STILL SUCKS!?

As for your anti-american comments:

-Almost totaly Privatised health care, thereby ensuring only the wealthy get proper (or any in many cases) treatment

Have you seen the state of Nationalized Health Care in Canada lately? Our doctors are leaving for other countries, our hospitals are overfilled with patients and often in a state of disrepair, and if I was wealthy, I'd be going to the states for medical treatment anyway.

-A long history of violence against other nations

Which, most of the time, was a result of other nations attacking the US and it's allies first.

-hardly respected, aside of military might, across the planet

I think Machiavelli covered it best: "It is better to be feared then loved, if you cannot be both." Futhermore, back during the Cold War, the US got all the respect it deserved, for keeping the Soviet Union in check.

-Has multiplied its national debt

It's not like we Canadians have done much better.

-has slashed benifits packages for its military men and women -- IN WARTIME

You can thank the likes of Senator Kerry for that, thank you very much.

-has a convicted criminal for President (ooh THERES a promotional bellringer!)

Uh, proof of that, please? And furthermore, Paul "Subsidisation Scandal" Martin, anyone?

-Blatantly lied about the invasion of its second conquest, Iraq (gee. they have STILL to find any nukes, biochems, or infastructure to BUILD any of the such)

Saddam's used Chemical weapons in the past, including on his own people. And anyone who thinks he wasn't likely to do so in the future, even if he had to rebuilt the program from scratch, is frankly, living in a dream world. Furthermore, I believe that Irak had WMDs prior to the Invasion. ...At the very least, prior to the end of the inspections.

Don't ask why Irak doesn't have any WMDs. Ask "WHERE THE HELL DID THEY GO!?" Then, thank the UN inspectors for they hard work.

-Gone great lengths to remove any gains made by human rights movements

Ahem.. Two human-rights violating governments removed by force, and replaced with more humane democracies, right there, in under four years. Amnesty International doesn't have that good a track record.

-Has had the single biggest security breach of ANY country in history, resulting in over 3000 innocent civilian deaths - not counting those lost in the retaliatory strikes abroad

And now, I see we're going into the "Blame the Victim" mentality in terms of 9/11. Because, you know, it makes every other country feel sooo morally superior to the US to think that they brought 9/11 on themselves, instead of blaming the fanatical anti-western civilisation nutcases.

-Has withdrawn itself from the internationally recognised Court Of Law

...Which has had, what kind of positive impact on civilisation, again? The International Court of Law, or the UN itself, for that matter, has only as much influence as it can enforce. And since the lion's share of said enforcement was done by the US to begin with, I don't see what's the point of keeping up that charade.

In short, LoneWolf, Your selling Canada FAR too short when it comes to our military AND our patriotism, and giving the US far too much credit, that it has not deserved in years. But then, considering your comments, I would expect no less from what we Canucks waaaaaay up north here call "a Yankee ass kisser". Your the kind we like to say "OPEN YOUR FUCKEN EYES YA STUPID CANUCK!!" And yes, being Canuck myself, i CAN say that.

I'm just being a frickin' realist in terms of Canada's capabilities. As for me being a "yankee ass kisser"... I'm just trying to stay on friendly terms with the big, strong neighbor down south, instead of pissing him off.

Oh, and go on home, ya hoser! ...Being a canadian, I can say that.

Yup, I was right. Your comment does not even dignify a detailed response, as clearly, your too wrapped up in US porpoganda to get a clue of waht the real world is like.

Not that I acrtually bothered to read all of this, but I just gotta say that didn't you know during the whole 911 and terrorist thing Canada did try to help out? I mean we sent over A few dozen destroyers, hundreds of soldiers, and as many IFV's as we could spare.

But yknow, after the whole exchange rate, all you got was 6 Mounties, 3 canoes, and 12 flying squirrells.

Hey, at least we tried!

RKCoon wrote:Yup, I was right. Your comment does not even dignify a detailed response, as clearly, your too wrapped up in US porpoganda to get a clue of waht the real world is like.

Really? What color is the sky where you live, RK?

LMFAO!!!!

OK, so all we sent were mounties and similar to iraq, and only small suppliments of manpower and equipment to Afganistan --- Scary part is how those few have been far more effective as a peacekeeping force Than the US. Hell, it wasnt Canada that accidentally bombed a freindly base.

As for the color of the sky, it varies between white, grey, blue, and black with odd greenblue streaks on occasion. You?

RKCoon wrote:Yup, I was right. Your comment does not even dignify a detailed response, as clearly, your too wrapped up in US porpoganda to get a clue of waht the real world is like.

Umm, 'porpoganda'? What is that - spin control for dolphins?

Bah. there are days i cant spell for beens. :p

You can't THINK "for beens" either.

Damn, were you and Archae built at the same talking doll factory?