Comic Genesis Forums

Yes I am positive now that the clown is Satan. He wants to take Ben's soul. So this will be an easy fight. Ben has the blood of Jesus on his side so Satan cannot stand against that. All Ben needs to do in invoke the name of the Lord and bind Satan.

Sorry for reposting this but the old post was messes up

Even for a Christian, life is not always just as simple as pronouncing the Name of Christ and watching the devil flee. Besides, that'd be horrible writing; almost a "deus ex machina" of sorts.

Needless to say, I like Morty. He's my favorite of the posse, so I hope that "Reality" has only incapacitated him for a while. I was sure Morty would save the day...

...

Besides which, "God helps those who help themselves". Not to mention that I hardly think this guy's Satan...more likely, as someone pointed out, Ben's own Self-Doubt made real. Also, Ben's a much better storyteller than one who would apply such a sledgehammer method of making a point...personally, I'm expecting the unexpected here. -;>

Arthur Writer wrote:Even for a Christian, life is not always just as simple as pronouncing the Name of Christ and watching the devil flee. Besides, that'd be horrible writing; almost a "deus ex machina" of sorts.

Needless to say, I like Morty. He's my favorite of the posse, so I hope that "Reality" has only incapacitated him for a while. I was sure Morty would save the day...

I would have to agree with Arthur. In the arena of storytelling, the big commandment is "Thou Shalt Not Rescue The Hero". Ben is in trouble here, and the thing that's going to get Ben out of trouble is going to have to come from Ben.

Sad to say, even invoking Jesus in this situation is rescuing the hero. Have a little faith in Ralph Hayes. He's too good a storyteller to resort to that.

All too easy to fall into the trap of duplicating posts when it seems nothing is happening...

I also agree with Arthur. Ben is in a bit of a pickle right now, but with any luck Morty has given him the clues that he needs to put it all together. After all Ben may be a janitor, but he is by no means stupid. In a lot of ways he is probably smarter than many people with a high faluting job. After all one's job is not always a good indication of their intelligence.

I'm sure Ben will get out of this one, just how I don't know. But all will be revealed by the great and powerful Ralph. (ignore the man behind the curtain)

Calbeck wrote:Besides which, "God helps those who help themselves".

Please tell me you don't think that's in the Bible! I haven't looked, but last time I checked that wasn't a Christian proverb.

God helps those who are too weak to help themselves. Personally, I think our culture is too addicted to the idea of one man (or woman) fighting against the odds and winning, and all on their own. If they have help, it's usually just one or two partners. We cringe at the idea of the hero actually being "weak" enough to call on God. Society just can't accept that.

And having the character invoke the name of Jesus to save him or herself is not necessarily bad writing. If the scene is badly written, having the hero save himself without God's help will not save the story.

For example, let's say the writer puts in a scene where the main character accepts Christ. Now, if it's written like the scene from the movie <u>The Bible Code</u>, you have a right to complain. I saw it, and I considered it too easy. But then, movies don't tell you everything; I'd like to know what was going through his mind at the time.

This may be comparing apples to oranges, but I felt that Frank Peretti did a good job at writing a similar scene in <u>This Present Darkness</u>. It didn't feel cliche or anything, but still that's just my opinion. It's also my opinion that his books show how turning to God in a moment of weakness can give a person tremendous power and authority. Few demons can stand up to a Christian who's filled with the Holy Spirit.

I myself have struggled with keeping my characters from being the traditional "man against the odds" type. Yet how do you limit the power of someone with the authority to turn his foes to dust from time to time? It ain't gonna be easy, but then that just might be what I need to hone my skills. Nothing like hard writing to exercise your creativity.

Whatever Ralph decides to do, I'm sure it'll be good. Just don't quote that "proverb" again under the pretense it's Christian. 'Cause if you do, I have every right to demand you tell me where in the Bible it is, book, chapter, and verse(s).

And I doubt you'll find it, except maybe in one of those liberal versions.

Calbeck wrote:Besides which, "God helps those who help themselves".

Please tell me you don't think that's in the Bible! I haven't looked, but last time I checked that wasn't a Christian proverb.

God helps those who are too weak to help themselves. Personally, I think our culture is too addicted to the idea of one man (or woman) fighting against the odds and winning, and all on their own. If they have help, it's usually just one or two partners. We cringe at the idea of the hero actually being "weak" enough to call on God. Society just can't accept that.

And having the character invoke the name of Jesus to save him or herself is not necessarily bad writing. If the scene is badly written, having the hero save himself without God's help will not save the story.

For example, let's say the writer puts in a scene where the main character accepts Christ. Now, if it's written like the scene from the movie <u>The Bible Code</u>, you have a right to complain. I saw it, and I considered it too easy. But then, movies don't tell you everything; I'd like to know what was going through his mind at the time.

This may be comparing apples to oranges, but I felt that Frank Peretti did a good job at writing a similar scene in <u>This Present Darkness</u>. It didn't feel cliche or anything, but still that's just my opinion. It's also my opinion that his books show how turning to God in a moment of weakness can give a person tremendous power and authority. Few demons can stand up to a Christian who's filled with the Holy Spirit.

I myself have struggled with keeping my characters from being the traditional "man against the odds" type. Yet how do you limit the power of someone with the authority to turn his foes to dust from time to time? It ain't gonna be easy, but then that just might be what I need to hone my skills. Nothing like hard writing to exercise your creativity.

Whatever Ralph decides to do, I'm sure it'll be good. Just don't quote that "proverb" again under the pretense it's Christian. 'Cause if you do, I have every right to demand you tell me where in the Bible it is, book, chapter, and verse(s).

And I doubt you'll find it, except maybe in one of those liberal versions.

Calbeck wrote:Besides which, "God helps those who help themselves".

Please tell me you don't think that's in the Bible! I haven't looked, but last time I checked that wasn't a Christian proverb.

God helps those who are too weak to help themselves. Personally, I think our culture is too addicted to the idea of one man (or woman) fighting against the odds and winning, and all on their own. If they have help, it's usually just one or two partners. We cringe at the idea of the hero actually being "weak" enough to call on God. Society just can't accept that.

And having the character invoke the name of Jesus to save him or herself is not necessarily bad writing. If the scene is badly written, having the hero save himself without God's help will not save the story.

For example, let's say the writer puts in a scene where the main character accepts Christ. Now, if it's written like the scene from the movie <u>The Bible Code</u>, you have a right to complain. I saw it, and I considered it too easy. But then, movies don't tell you everything; I'd like to know what was going through his mind at the time.

This may be comparing apples to oranges, but I felt that Frank Peretti did a good job at writing a similar scene in <u>This Present Darkness</u>. It didn't feel cliche or anything, but still that's just my opinion. It's also my opinion that his books show how turning to God in a moment of weakness can give a person tremendous power and authority. Few demons can stand up to a Christian who's filled with the Holy Spirit.

I myself have struggled with keeping my characters from being the traditional "man against the odds" type. Yet how do you limit the power of someone with the authority to turn his foes to dust from time to time? It ain't gonna be easy, but then that just might be what I need to hone my skills. Nothing like hard writing to exercise your creativity.

Whatever Ralph decides to do, I'm sure it'll be good. Just don't quote that "proverb" again under the pretense it's Christian. 'Cause if you do, I have every right to demand you tell me where in the Bible it is, book, chapter, and verse(s).

And I doubt you'll find it, except maybe in one of those liberal versions.

He...Got...MORTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So is the evil clown going to destroy Ben's posse one by one? That would be horrifying. Reminds me of the Stark Trek DSN episode where an alien put dr. Bashir into a comma and gave him a virus that slowly destroyed his mind. While in the comma, he dreamed all the crew members were parts of his personality, and the virus killed them one by one, slowly destroying him. Man, that's two times this storyline has made me think of a star trek episode.

Oh yes, actually Ben Franklin said "God helps those who help themselves." Not Biblical, but I believe Franklin was referring to those who held such a fatalistic view of life that they never did anything, so I see where he's coming from. I agree that using Jesus as some sort of magic word, or refusing to take responsibility because "God will handle it all anyway" totally misconstrues(sp?) what true dependence on God means. As for the clown, although he can hurt the posse, he hasn't physically harmed Ben yet, he merely is trying to get Ben to give up, as someone else pointed out, and destroy himself. Maybe the key is for Ben to realize that.

you'd think I'd have caught on...sorry bought that double post.

Strange_Wulf wrote:Just don't quote that "proverb" again under the pretense it's Christian. 'Cause if you do, I have every right to demand you tell me where in the Bible it is, book, chapter, and verse(s).

It may not be in there in those precise words, but the point is repeatedly made that sitting on your butt and waiting for God to fix all your problems for you is a Bad Idea (tm) - there's a reason we weren't created as quivering blobs of inert protoplasm, y'know?

- Sir Bob.

*nukes double-post*

SirBob wrote:

Strange_Wulf wrote:Just don't quote that "proverb" again under the pretense it's Christian. 'Cause if you do, I have every right to demand you tell me where in the Bible it is, book, chapter, and verse(s).

It may not be in there in those precise words, but the point is repeatedly made that sitting on your butt and waiting for God to fix all your problems for you is a Bad Idea (tm) - there's a reason we weren't created as quivering blobs of inert protoplasm, y'know?

- Sir Bob.

I believe it's an ancient proverb, probably with several cultural variations. I'll leave it to others to check to see whether it was quoted in the Bible. I first read it in "Aesop's Fables"; it was the moral to the story of the Cartman and Hercules. The story went something like this:

A cartman was pulling his cart when it became mired in the mud. Immediately he stopped, fell on his knees and prayed for Hercules, god of strength, to come down and extricate him from his predicament. Upon which Hercules looked down from Olympus and said "Get up and put your back to it, you lazy @#$%!

Well, okay, I paraphrased that last sentence, but you get the idea.

And I'm not talking about a costume change.

I admit I may have stepped on a few toes in my haste to stop what I felt was scripture twisting in progress. As I've said before, text is limited and human relations are not my speciality (I'm not a freaking droid for heaven's sake). Ah, I'll get it right one day.

I do agree that we shouldn't expect God to fix all our problems. We were made for work, and we may even work in heaven. The Bible itself says that a lazy man will come to a bad end. The Apostle Paul thought that men (he probably meant it for women too) who do not work should not eat. So there is a reason that our economy is structured to promote hard workers. The first capitalists were protestant after all.

Still, it is unwise to try and fix our problems in our own time and in our own way. If you want to see an example, just look at what happened to Gunther. He didn't wait to see if God or anyone else would help out, he just ran right up and did what he thought would work. And guess what? It didn't. It may be that Ben and the Posse have to wait for something else to happen first. Maybe Ben has to call on God. Who knows? Oh, wait, that's too obvious. Ralph is in perfect control of this strip. Unless someone put a hex on his roof so falls in again. And then we'd have to wait <i>another</i> week to find out how this all ends! Dang, that'd stink.

If this clown is a demon, then I hope Ben realizes it quick, because that makes it spiritual warfare and he'll need God on his side ASAP! After all, nothing makes Satan and his underlings skedadle like the Almighty lighting up the battlefield.

This is definitely becoming quite the story! I just hope Ben makes it out of there more or less together (i.e. no posse members missing).

And I'll be sure to nuke those duplicate posts whenever I can. It's really annoying.

Oh, and is mine the only screen that doesn't show the correct name for the last post in a thread? I can't tell if something's been updated recently...

Just read today's comic, and I am truly Laughing Out Loud!

Given all that's been argued over this board the last few days, it just makes it perfect! Bravo Ralph, I can't wait to see how this wraps up.

I strongly suspect that Morty will be just fine, even if this ISN'T all a dream tacked on to the end of a dream. I don't know if it COMPLETELY counts, since it might qualify as 'just a gag' but we do have evidence that at least Morty (and probably the entire posse) can come back from grevious physical situations.
http://utlt.keenspace.com/d/20001213.h ... 01016.html
I rather suspect that Morty would have shown more caution if their were any real danger of perminant harm to himself. Sure, as a gaurdian/friend(in his own certain way) of Ben he would have still come but he might have say... Circled the clown in classic buzzard fashion a safe margin above arms reach. As it was he maybe didn't think the matter through enough. If I am right, the clown couldn't hurt him perminantly so easily but now he can't help Ben in this hour of need.

Actually their is another interesting possiblity... the fact that the Clown might be seen as playing a demon's role might be important. Consider his words in the last panel. "Ahh, the human conscience. ... so easy to CRUSH."... but if Morty really is the embodyment of Ben's conscience they he is 'upgraded'... we may be in for an Incrediable Hulk style transformation. Something VERY roughly along the lines of the following (I am of course not on RH's level.)-- Ben: "Alright so, I am scum, you're right, but it doesn't matter God still loves me. So you are wrong about these images. These are times indeed times I have messed up. But they aren't MY failures, they got repossessed. And they died 2000... or is it more like 4000 years now... I can't trust you on anything, now can I.... in any case they are long dead. Buried in the deepest ocean, and further from me then Targon's crew could ever fly." The clown screams and rears back one hand, fingerbones stretched into razors. Next panel Ben is down and trying to hold his intestines in. The clown hold the killing stroke ready. "Beg me for mercy! Where is your God now?!?" At this point the bloody pile of feathers in the corner pulls itself together and as the light of the third part of the Trinity lims every feather. No longer the black symbol of death, but shining white with the power of the here-present promise of the resurection to come. "THIS LITTLE SERVANT OF MINE TOLD YOU TO BACK OFF OF THE ONE I SENT HIM TO. YOU CHOSE TO IGNORE HIM, AND SO FILLED THE CUP OF WRATH HERE SET FOR YOU... BUT YOU CAN NOT IGNORE ME!!Go away" Clown pops like a ballon leaving only a scorch mark on the floor.


P.S. - Ralph: Do you know how vultures defend themselves? If not, you MIGHT want to look it up. Is Morty capable of using this tactic? (Don't want to say here for fear of spoiling a VERY surprising strip if it ever comes up).

P.P.S. - The previous is certainly NOT appropriate to the idea of a scene where Morty has the Spirit come upon him.