...Leaving this STUPID forum!

Jamie Jalecki · Post by **Jamie Jalecki** » Thu Jan 31, 2002 3:51 am

I do not care anymore what anybody wants to discuss, but forget about my being involved. And there is only one way out of it, and none of you can stop me! I am quitting this forum.Where nobody is seeing anything the same, who in God's name am I kidding?! I am most fed up with STUPID discussions, criticizing Ralph's comics, even if he wants to use certain types of humour that some of you dare to talk ignorant. Well I REFUSE to associate with some of you sounding like idiots who dare make a big stupid deal out of something. I hope you are all happy!DO NOT even send any private messages to beg to differ! Good riddance!!

David Adrian · Post by **David Adrian** » Thu Jan 31, 2002 5:21 am

...and in the end, after the thunder and violence, was silence.I hope someday you change you mind, Jamie, but I can't dictate your conscience. Good luck, and take with you the best wishes of a fellow traveller.

WolfFur · Post by **WolfFur** » Thu Jan 31, 2002 11:48 am

Why allow an idiot or two to drive you away? Do they really matter that much? I see all but a couple posts here being respectful and topical. Why let the minority determine what you do?

UncleMonty · Post by **UncleMonty** » Fri Feb 01, 2002 5:45 am

Didn't Jamie storm out of the "Doemain of our Own" forum in much the same way?

LoneWolf23k · Post by **LoneWolf23k** » Fri Feb 01, 2002 6:48 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I do not care anymore what anybody wants to discuss, but forget about my being involved. And there is only one way out of it, and none of you can stop me! I am quitting this forum.Where nobody is seeing anything the same, who in God's name am I kidding?! I am most fed up with STUPID discussions, criticizing Ralph's comics, even if he wants to use certain types of humour that some of you dare to talk ignorant. Well I REFUSE to associate with some of you sounding like idiots who dare make a big stupid deal out of something. I hope you are all happy!DO NOT even send any private messages to beg to differ! Good riddance!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Was it something I said? I guess it is, because I was one of the most vocal during the "religion Debates".If so, I wish to apologize for driving you away. That was certainly not my intent, and I'm sorry you felt my presence was so offensive.I can only hope you're still lurking and you'll find this message, and maybe consider returning. I really would like to start things over as friends with all of you...-Exit the LoneWolf

Random George · Post by **Random George** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 11:45 am

recent life events have taught me two things:1. people who storm out of rooms and slam doors, yelling "don't follow me!" actually want you to follow them.2. as callous as it sounds, they're rarely worth the chase at that point.i'm sorry to see jamie go. however, i have little patience for childish drama right now. if there were truly things bothering jamie, i think rational discussion might have been a more profitable course than tempestuous exit. too often, people say and do rash and permanent things to end relationships, friendships, and lives, when there was a better solution. best wishes, jamie. may you find joy on your path. may you also learn as you grow that sometimes, goodbye is forever and you realize there was quite a bit left unsaid. this is a cartoon forum, not too terribly serious. but if you make a habit of violently exiting every situation you dislike, someday you will leave a community of people reeling in your wake, blaming themselves and wondering what more they could have done. i pray your friends and loved ones never face that moment. it's a very dark hour, and no one should see it, ever.

Andrick · Post by **Andrick** » Sun Feb 17, 2002 12:16 am

Let it be known first that I am doing this without Jamie's permission.

Jamie has been party to other forums which have 'gone south' over the issue of religion. I don't know if its his thought in this but he may have grown exasperated at how entire forums can turn from light-hearted communities to rhetoric filled debates over theology. In his eyes Jamie was seeing the cycle start again in these forums and decided to leave before it drove him up the wall as the previous forums had done.

Jamie has been part of the forums since Halloween of 2000. As with everywhere else in life these forums have changed in the two years intervening. I think this also is a reason why Jamie quit. Most of the people he was exchanging ideas with when he joined are no longer posting here; in other words the forum Jamie joined isn't the forum it is now. So when it became more aggravating than enjoyable for him he chose to leave.

Through no fault of any of us did this happen. It just is.

--Quick edit to fix an error on my part--
_________________
"Does that have to be your solution to everything?""Well... yeah. Now get ready to run."

[ This Message was edited by: Andrick on 2002-02-19 17:50 ]

Random George · Post by **Random George** » Tue Feb 19, 2002 7:35 am

if jamie wants to leave, so be it. i don't have any problem with that. i myself am tired of the endless wrangling over religion. that why i, following david adrian's most excellent example, stated that i would not participate in religious debates. i just look at this and think to myself that there was a better way to handle it than that. the companion post on nip and tuck left a lot of people over there very confused. it struck me as very, "i'm taking my toys and going home!" and, frankly, throwing what amounts to an email tantrum and storming out of the virtual room is not a good precedent to set for resolution of issues. when i saw that, my first thought was, "what if this is the first post someone reads about this forum? will that person stick around?" by and large, a lot of the religious debate had actually died down by that point. unless there was something else going on behind the scenes of which i am not aware, all i saw was melodramatic posturing, and it hit me at a time when i was not inclined to indulge its childishness. i'm still not inclined to indulge it. i'm actually inclined to think that an irrelevant temper tantrum and violent exit are particularly poor methods of rational discourse, and that jamie, like many other people, could benefit from a little study of formal rhetoric and logical civilized discourse. have they stopped teaching aquinas and hume entirely in favor of that pathetic, undisciplined claptrap they're passing off as creative writing?

David Adrian · Post by **David Adrian** » Tue Feb 19, 2002 12:50 pm

Um... just where do they teach Acquinas and Hume these days? I didn't even get them in my college philosophy course, thirteen years ago. Had to read on my own to pick up those two... o' course, I'd read 'em years before that, but it still left a sour taste to have them omitted.

Feh, all a formal education is good for these days is wasting time.

Random George · Post by **Random George** » Tue Feb 19, 2002 3:25 pm

honors humanities, but they were also optional/recommended reading for my high school english class 10 years ago. i agree. a formal education generally teaches the bare minimum of coping skills for the modern world, as opposed such archaic concepts as intellectual discipline, formal writing, grammar, and logical thought. i was taught the logical problem-solving process (i.e. bloom's taxonomy) in elementary school. computer skills are all well and good. calculus--nice to know about, but i have a calculator that can answer every math problem i encounter in daily life. there is no substitute for teaching children to think, speak and communicate logically and intelligently. last night, a friend explained to me her plan to write a formal paper for her literature class, without a defined thesis, and using second person singular as the gender neutral pronoun. i had to go lie down for a bit before i could respond. i'm not saying one should never break the rules of formal rhetoric. i'm saying that they must be understood completely to be broken effectively. i break them often. however, i consciously choose to break every rule of grammar and discourse i break. ignorant is not the same as iconoclastic. and temper tantrums are not rational arguments. if you wish to persuade the intelligent, speak to them intelligently. if you wish to persuade the unimaginative, unwashed masses, use emotion--but understand that they will remain persuaded only until someone else appeals more strongly to their emotions than you have. this is how a group of people becomes a mob; appeal after appeal comes more strongly to the emotions, until there is such a high level of agitation that they must act, unthinking and uncontrolled. intelligent people, moved by intelligent persuasion, remain yours until your arguments are effectively refuted with solid fact and reason. as my high school english teacher said, "using emotion to sell logic is like using a girl in a bikini to sell a car. it may work, but it's a cheap shot, and you're better than that."

geo

Andrick · Post by **Andrick** » Tue Feb 19, 2002 6:08 pm

Actually, Geo, in the argument of intelligence versus emotion I've yet to see intelligence win when attempting to influence a broad group of people. Time after time it is emotion which carries the day no matter what is decided upon. To paraphrase K in MIB, "a single person is smart. But people are dum.". And it doesn't matter to what type of audience you are speaking for it seems that the proportional amount of idiots is the same no matter education or background.

As for Jamie, sure it could've been handled better but hindsight is 20/20. Jamie felt he needed to post what he did (as we all do when we post) at the time he did it. I know I've had some 'hot' moments when I started a sharp retort; I'm just lucky I'm nuerotic enough to proof-read what I send and usually end up deleting most such messages after cooling off.

I'm just saying, cut Jamie some slack. This is his send off and I'll say its better than a lot of others I've seen elsewhere.

UncleMonty · Post by **UncleMonty** » Tue Feb 19, 2002 8:07 pm

People come and go. Life is like that.

I'd just as soon see this topic drift off the bottom of the page, but it keeps getting bumped to the top again.