Your comic is facinating to read.
It gave me an interesting view on the american culture explaining terms like "No sex untill marriage" and the existance of the NRA.
Exploring the american culture has something of studying a rainforest tribe to me.
My first time was with 15.
The biggest weapon I ever had was a swiss army knife.
I can walk the streets of my city at night without fear.
I won't tell you were I come from ...
but,wow are our cultures different!
an Anthropologist from Mars
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dark Zero:
<B>Your comic is facinating to read.
It gave me an interesting view on the american culture explaining terms like "No sex untill marriage" and the existance of the NRA.
Exploring the american culture has something of studying a rainforest tribe to me.
My first time was with 15.
The biggest weapon I ever had was a swiss army knife.
I can walk the streets of my city at night without fear.
I won't tell you were I come from ...
but,wow are our cultures different!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, without knowing where you're from, I can't judge the veracity of your statements....
let me clarify one thing: I consider my country superior to all others, primarily in the fact that it is the only country that, from its inception, proclaimed in its constitution that governance was of, by, and for the PEOPLE. It established that the government was answerable to the PEOPLE, not the other way around-- and if that government got out of hand and refused to answer to its employer, the common man, it was the divine right of the common man to come in and kick the government's tail back in shape. The right to defend oneself, whether against the lawless individual or a lawless heirarchy, was officially recognized as inviolate as the right to speech, press, religion, assembly, and petition of grievances-- and all the instruments thereof were to remain in the hands, not of the government, but the common man, as part and parcel of the balance of power.
Only the corrupt and the tyrannical have anything to fear from an armed, law abiding populace.
Ask yourself: what *your* rulers are afraid of?
You may *feel* safe... and, in some fashion you may be somewhat safe from certain things(though I suspect your "feeling" safe and your actually BEING safe are a far cry apart)... but the more important question is this:
Are you independent? When called upon to exercise your responsibilities as a citizen, a parent, a spouse, a guardian, a provider, a protector-- can you do so?
Are you capable of providing for yourself those things necessary for liberty-- including the ability to defend yourself from those, whether commoner or ruler, who think themselves to be above any law?<P>Are you *free*?<P>If you depend on another-- especially if you depend on a government-- for such things, you are depending upon the efficiency of a bureaucracy. Worse, upon the benevolence and mercy of politicians, and their cross-their-hearts promise to play by the rules and not gestapo-march over your corpse someday.<P>Americans are portrayed as being aggressive, reckless, violent...resentment and sour grapes, I call that... all because we trust our civilians to exercise the right to defend themselves, and place part of the balance of force directly in their hands. (Ayatollahs and Communist chairmen wet themselves at the very notion of *their* populations carrying arms.... I wonder why.)<P>We are accused of having more gun crime than many nations.(Untrue.)
We are accused of lots of things.
But you'll never hear us being accused of being helpless victims of a government... whether a foreign one or our own.<P>I'd rather be free than safe.<P>------------------
Never attribute to secret conspiracy what can just as easily be attributed to common stupidity.
http://nipandtuck.keenspace.com
http://UTLT.keenspace.com
<B>Your comic is facinating to read.
It gave me an interesting view on the american culture explaining terms like "No sex untill marriage" and the existance of the NRA.
Exploring the american culture has something of studying a rainforest tribe to me.
My first time was with 15.
The biggest weapon I ever had was a swiss army knife.
I can walk the streets of my city at night without fear.
I won't tell you were I come from ...
but,wow are our cultures different!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, without knowing where you're from, I can't judge the veracity of your statements....
let me clarify one thing: I consider my country superior to all others, primarily in the fact that it is the only country that, from its inception, proclaimed in its constitution that governance was of, by, and for the PEOPLE. It established that the government was answerable to the PEOPLE, not the other way around-- and if that government got out of hand and refused to answer to its employer, the common man, it was the divine right of the common man to come in and kick the government's tail back in shape. The right to defend oneself, whether against the lawless individual or a lawless heirarchy, was officially recognized as inviolate as the right to speech, press, religion, assembly, and petition of grievances-- and all the instruments thereof were to remain in the hands, not of the government, but the common man, as part and parcel of the balance of power.
Only the corrupt and the tyrannical have anything to fear from an armed, law abiding populace.
Ask yourself: what *your* rulers are afraid of?
You may *feel* safe... and, in some fashion you may be somewhat safe from certain things(though I suspect your "feeling" safe and your actually BEING safe are a far cry apart)... but the more important question is this:
Are you independent? When called upon to exercise your responsibilities as a citizen, a parent, a spouse, a guardian, a provider, a protector-- can you do so?
Are you capable of providing for yourself those things necessary for liberty-- including the ability to defend yourself from those, whether commoner or ruler, who think themselves to be above any law?<P>Are you *free*?<P>If you depend on another-- especially if you depend on a government-- for such things, you are depending upon the efficiency of a bureaucracy. Worse, upon the benevolence and mercy of politicians, and their cross-their-hearts promise to play by the rules and not gestapo-march over your corpse someday.<P>Americans are portrayed as being aggressive, reckless, violent...resentment and sour grapes, I call that... all because we trust our civilians to exercise the right to defend themselves, and place part of the balance of force directly in their hands. (Ayatollahs and Communist chairmen wet themselves at the very notion of *their* populations carrying arms.... I wonder why.)<P>We are accused of having more gun crime than many nations.(Untrue.)
We are accused of lots of things.
But you'll never hear us being accused of being helpless victims of a government... whether a foreign one or our own.<P>I'd rather be free than safe.<P>------------------
Never attribute to secret conspiracy what can just as easily be attributed to common stupidity.
http://nipandtuck.keenspace.com
http://UTLT.keenspace.com
BWAHAHAHAHA !!!!
OOPs,sorry.
Actually I'am more sad than amused.
Did you know that america isn't the only
democracy in the world ?
Do you actually understand the nature of a democracy ?
Democracy is deligation of power to a group of competent experts by the voters.
Ok,that is what it should be.
Do YOU know that every democracy is governed by 3 indepentand elements that prevent abuse of power by one of its elements ?
There are other possibilities than guns to
control your DEMOCRATIC government.
It would be different if america had a king or dictator,but it doesn't.
No politician is going to hurt you !
In fact they can't and they don't want to.
You call it security,I call it paranoia.
With or without gun I'am just as save as you are.
So,what do you mean by freedom ?
I can do what I want as long as I don't break any laws.
Everything you are so proud of isn't all that
special to some parts of the world.
America is actually kind of dusty and rusty compared to a lot of them.
I wonder how much you actually know about the rest of the world.<P>
OOPs,sorry.
Actually I'am more sad than amused.
Did you know that america isn't the only
democracy in the world ?
Do you actually understand the nature of a democracy ?
Democracy is deligation of power to a group of competent experts by the voters.
Ok,that is what it should be.
Do YOU know that every democracy is governed by 3 indepentand elements that prevent abuse of power by one of its elements ?
There are other possibilities than guns to
control your DEMOCRATIC government.
It would be different if america had a king or dictator,but it doesn't.
No politician is going to hurt you !
In fact they can't and they don't want to.
You call it security,I call it paranoia.
With or without gun I'am just as save as you are.
So,what do you mean by freedom ?
I can do what I want as long as I don't break any laws.
Everything you are so proud of isn't all that
special to some parts of the world.
America is actually kind of dusty and rusty compared to a lot of them.
I wonder how much you actually know about the rest of the world.<P>
-
UncleMonty
- Cartoon Hero
- Posts: 1789
- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dark Zero:
BWAHAHAHAHA !!!!
OOPs,sorry.
Actually I'am more sad than amused.
Did you know that america isn't the only
democracy in the world ?<P>America is a Democratic Republic. There are many so-called "Democracies" in the world, but any government which does not fear those governed will inevitably rule over them rather than serving them. That's just human nature and history.<P>Do you actually understand the nature of a democracy ?
Democracy is deligation of power to a group of competent experts by the voters.<P>I'm sorry, but you have described a Republic rather than a Democracy. We elect politicians who represent us, but if we are wise, we do not delegate our authority to them.<P>Ok,that is what it should be.
Do YOU know that every democracy is governed by 3 indepentand elements that prevent abuse of power by one of its elements ?<P>In our case, we have the Executive branch, the Judicial branch, and Congress operating in a "balance of power". Left without the leadership of the people, in a power vacuum, these three tend to join forces in a two-against-one battle in which the "forth branch" the entrenched bureaucracy which builds up like barnacles on a ship's hull, can cast the tie-breaking vote.<P>The balance of power, in other words, can easily become unbalanced.<P>There are other possibilities than guns to
control your DEMOCRATIC government.<P>Absolutely! That's why we haven't had to use them yet, except as a constant deterrent.<P>It would be different if america had a king or dictator,but it doesn't.
No politician is going to hurt you !<P>Not as long as they fear us, they won't!
They knew the rules when we elected them.<P>In fact they can't and they don't want to.<P>Ruby Ridge, Waco, Elian Gonzales...
No, given free reign, no government would use excessive force against its own people...<P>You call it security,I call it paranoia.
With or without gun I'am just as save as you are.<P>Safe from individual criminals, perhaps. The safety that an owned animal has. Nobody has the right to beat it but its owner.
So,what do you mean by freedom ?
I can do what I want as long as I don't break any laws.<P>And someone else says what laws you must follow.<P>Everything you are so proud of isn't all that
special to some parts of the world.<P>Of course not. I would hope the citizens of every country would be especially fond of their own land.<P>America is actually kind of dusty and rusty compared to a lot of them.<P>Well, we do have just about the oldest government on the planet. A bit of rust is to be expected. We haven't had a revolution in about 225 years now. We must be doing something right.<P>I wonder how much you actually know about the rest of the world.<P>That does not apply to this discussion.
I'm talking about America.<P>Thank you.
BWAHAHAHAHA !!!!
OOPs,sorry.
Actually I'am more sad than amused.
Did you know that america isn't the only
democracy in the world ?<P>America is a Democratic Republic. There are many so-called "Democracies" in the world, but any government which does not fear those governed will inevitably rule over them rather than serving them. That's just human nature and history.<P>Do you actually understand the nature of a democracy ?
Democracy is deligation of power to a group of competent experts by the voters.<P>I'm sorry, but you have described a Republic rather than a Democracy. We elect politicians who represent us, but if we are wise, we do not delegate our authority to them.<P>Ok,that is what it should be.
Do YOU know that every democracy is governed by 3 indepentand elements that prevent abuse of power by one of its elements ?<P>In our case, we have the Executive branch, the Judicial branch, and Congress operating in a "balance of power". Left without the leadership of the people, in a power vacuum, these three tend to join forces in a two-against-one battle in which the "forth branch" the entrenched bureaucracy which builds up like barnacles on a ship's hull, can cast the tie-breaking vote.<P>The balance of power, in other words, can easily become unbalanced.<P>There are other possibilities than guns to
control your DEMOCRATIC government.<P>Absolutely! That's why we haven't had to use them yet, except as a constant deterrent.<P>It would be different if america had a king or dictator,but it doesn't.
No politician is going to hurt you !<P>Not as long as they fear us, they won't!
They knew the rules when we elected them.<P>In fact they can't and they don't want to.<P>Ruby Ridge, Waco, Elian Gonzales...
No, given free reign, no government would use excessive force against its own people...<P>You call it security,I call it paranoia.
With or without gun I'am just as save as you are.<P>Safe from individual criminals, perhaps. The safety that an owned animal has. Nobody has the right to beat it but its owner.
So,what do you mean by freedom ?
I can do what I want as long as I don't break any laws.<P>And someone else says what laws you must follow.<P>Everything you are so proud of isn't all that
special to some parts of the world.<P>Of course not. I would hope the citizens of every country would be especially fond of their own land.<P>America is actually kind of dusty and rusty compared to a lot of them.<P>Well, we do have just about the oldest government on the planet. A bit of rust is to be expected. We haven't had a revolution in about 225 years now. We must be doing something right.<P>I wonder how much you actually know about the rest of the world.<P>That does not apply to this discussion.
I'm talking about America.<P>Thank you.
I think you are just searching for lame excuses to justify your way of life.
Governments are consistent of people not firebreathing monsters with horns that are constantly trying to stalk you !
So you think I'am a farmed animal ??
A piece of cattle to feed the rich and powerful ?
Let me tell you,no one keeps me on a leash.
I can go where ever I want any time I want !
I live in a free country with free people.
The only ones unfree are you !
You are tied by your own FEAR and your unwillingness to understand that brute force will get you nowhere.
Try reading Ghandi's biography and you will see what true power is.
Caged in empty phrases and your agression.
You are the cattle !
Governments aren't afraid of people like you.
Pull the right strings and you dance like marionettes !
You think that I should have the possibility to terrorize my government so it will do as I say ?
BWAHAHA!Sorry,I believe in diplomacy not idiocy.<P>I AM POWERFUL !!
Wanna know why I am powerful ?
I have the ability to trust into others.
I FEAR nothing,especially not my government.
I am never afraid to ask or demand.
I need nothing but myself to enforce my requests.
My country was always there when I needed it and it never disapointed me.
I never disapointed my country and I was always there when it needed something.
My Government SERVES ME and vice versa.
Where I come from people can rely on each other as well as them selves!
A well adjusted machine serving everyone.<P>You are right when when you say that your government should be afraid of you!!
Your government can't trust you.
And if your government is formed by people like you then you can't trust it either.
You can't rely on others and others can't rely on you !
That is why your country has the CIA,NRA,so much gun crime,waco,ruby ridge,school bloodbaths...
You are the problems not the solutions!
YOU ARE WEAK !<P>
Governments are consistent of people not firebreathing monsters with horns that are constantly trying to stalk you !
So you think I'am a farmed animal ??
A piece of cattle to feed the rich and powerful ?
Let me tell you,no one keeps me on a leash.
I can go where ever I want any time I want !
I live in a free country with free people.
The only ones unfree are you !
You are tied by your own FEAR and your unwillingness to understand that brute force will get you nowhere.
Try reading Ghandi's biography and you will see what true power is.
Caged in empty phrases and your agression.
You are the cattle !
Governments aren't afraid of people like you.
Pull the right strings and you dance like marionettes !
You think that I should have the possibility to terrorize my government so it will do as I say ?
BWAHAHA!Sorry,I believe in diplomacy not idiocy.<P>I AM POWERFUL !!
Wanna know why I am powerful ?
I have the ability to trust into others.
I FEAR nothing,especially not my government.
I am never afraid to ask or demand.
I need nothing but myself to enforce my requests.
My country was always there when I needed it and it never disapointed me.
I never disapointed my country and I was always there when it needed something.
My Government SERVES ME and vice versa.
Where I come from people can rely on each other as well as them selves!
A well adjusted machine serving everyone.<P>You are right when when you say that your government should be afraid of you!!
Your government can't trust you.
And if your government is formed by people like you then you can't trust it either.
You can't rely on others and others can't rely on you !
That is why your country has the CIA,NRA,so much gun crime,waco,ruby ridge,school bloodbaths...
You are the problems not the solutions!
YOU ARE WEAK !<P>
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dark Zero:
<B>BWAHAHAHAHA !!!!
OOPs,sorry.
Actually I'am more sad than amused.
Did you know that america isn't the only
democracy in the world ?
Do you actually understand the nature of a democracy ?
Democracy is deligation of power to a group of competent experts by the voters.</B>
Actually, no. Democracy is one issue, one citizen, one vote, every time.
What you refer to is a *constitutional republic.*
In summation:
Democracy: three wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
Republic: the sheep get to vote for which wolves write the menu.
Constitutional Republic: The sheep has a gun, and a list of what's not on the menu.
<IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif">
Yup, there are a lot of "democracies" out there.
I still say mine is better.
<B><P>
Ok,that is what it should be.
Do YOU know that every democracy is governed by 3 indepentand elements that prevent abuse of power by one of its elements ?
There are other possibilities than guns to
control your DEMOCRATIC government.
</B>
You still miss the point. Wilfully, I think.
May I submit that british royalty and parliament was supposed to function like this (preventing abuse by division of power)?
It wasn't working too well in 1776.
<B>
It would be different if america had a king or dictator,but it doesn't.
No politician is going to hurt you !
</B>
Our founding fathers thought differently-- and in fact knew better from experience.
We, unfortunately, are having to re-learn in the school of hard knocks.
Waco. Ruby Ridge. "Dynamic entry" drug raids.
"assets forfeiture" laws. "Speech codes." Violations of countless civil rights-- speech, press, religion, lawful assembly, property rights, the right to bear arms in self-defense--- all of them have been toe-stomped repeatedly.<P>Are you aware that the government can confiscate everything you own-- and never actually have to accuse you of a crime?
Better yet-- are you aware that, for the past 20 years or so, the U.S. Congress has been specifically exempting its members from many of the very laws they write? A patrolman finds a hemp seed in your car's upholstery, you can lose the car-- and even if you're found innocent, you'll never see your car ever again. But a US congressman can sell crack from the back seat of his cadillac in a school parking lot, and they can't so much as touch the chrome....<P>For many of these avaricious prevaricators, the only thing keeping them from throwing away all restraint is the spectre of a civilian uprising.
The only thing that has permitted them as much as they have claimed is the demonstrated apathy of the average citizen, in the face of outrages equal to or greater than those that sent the American colonists searching for their powder and muskets.<P>You will excuse me if I don't have as much faith in the lovingkindness of politicians, and dont drop to my knees and invite Uncle Sam into my heart as my lord and savior.<P>You give much credit to the power of press, speech, petition of grievance... no government fears these, in and of themselves. The only reason tinpot dictators suppress speech and press is because they're afraid someone will read what is written *and pick up a gun.*<P>No tyrant ever died of paper cuts.<P>As messed up as America has become, her people are still the freest and most prosperous in the world (and you don't get one without the other.)
I'll take my chances with the "paranoid gun nuts." They're a better crowd than the Gullible Government Sycophants.
<P>------------------
Never attribute to secret conspiracy what can just as easily be attributed to common stupidity.
http://nipandtuck.keenspace.com
http://UTLT.keenspace.com
<B>BWAHAHAHAHA !!!!
OOPs,sorry.
Actually I'am more sad than amused.
Did you know that america isn't the only
democracy in the world ?
Do you actually understand the nature of a democracy ?
Democracy is deligation of power to a group of competent experts by the voters.</B>
Actually, no. Democracy is one issue, one citizen, one vote, every time.
What you refer to is a *constitutional republic.*
In summation:
Democracy: three wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.
Republic: the sheep get to vote for which wolves write the menu.
Constitutional Republic: The sheep has a gun, and a list of what's not on the menu.
<IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/wink.gif">
Yup, there are a lot of "democracies" out there.
I still say mine is better.
<B><P>
Ok,that is what it should be.
Do YOU know that every democracy is governed by 3 indepentand elements that prevent abuse of power by one of its elements ?
There are other possibilities than guns to
control your DEMOCRATIC government.
</B>
You still miss the point. Wilfully, I think.
May I submit that british royalty and parliament was supposed to function like this (preventing abuse by division of power)?
It wasn't working too well in 1776.
<B>
It would be different if america had a king or dictator,but it doesn't.
No politician is going to hurt you !
</B>
Our founding fathers thought differently-- and in fact knew better from experience.
We, unfortunately, are having to re-learn in the school of hard knocks.
Waco. Ruby Ridge. "Dynamic entry" drug raids.
"assets forfeiture" laws. "Speech codes." Violations of countless civil rights-- speech, press, religion, lawful assembly, property rights, the right to bear arms in self-defense--- all of them have been toe-stomped repeatedly.<P>Are you aware that the government can confiscate everything you own-- and never actually have to accuse you of a crime?
Better yet-- are you aware that, for the past 20 years or so, the U.S. Congress has been specifically exempting its members from many of the very laws they write? A patrolman finds a hemp seed in your car's upholstery, you can lose the car-- and even if you're found innocent, you'll never see your car ever again. But a US congressman can sell crack from the back seat of his cadillac in a school parking lot, and they can't so much as touch the chrome....<P>For many of these avaricious prevaricators, the only thing keeping them from throwing away all restraint is the spectre of a civilian uprising.
The only thing that has permitted them as much as they have claimed is the demonstrated apathy of the average citizen, in the face of outrages equal to or greater than those that sent the American colonists searching for their powder and muskets.<P>You will excuse me if I don't have as much faith in the lovingkindness of politicians, and dont drop to my knees and invite Uncle Sam into my heart as my lord and savior.<P>You give much credit to the power of press, speech, petition of grievance... no government fears these, in and of themselves. The only reason tinpot dictators suppress speech and press is because they're afraid someone will read what is written *and pick up a gun.*<P>No tyrant ever died of paper cuts.<P>As messed up as America has become, her people are still the freest and most prosperous in the world (and you don't get one without the other.)
I'll take my chances with the "paranoid gun nuts." They're a better crowd than the Gullible Government Sycophants.
<P>------------------
Never attribute to secret conspiracy what can just as easily be attributed to common stupidity.
http://nipandtuck.keenspace.com
http://UTLT.keenspace.com
-
UncleMonty
- Cartoon Hero
- Posts: 1789
- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dark Zero:
<B>I think you are just searching for lame excuses to justify your way of life.</B><P>Our founding fathers wrote those "lame excuses" into our constitution. It takes very little searching to find them. My way of life is to work hard and be honest.<P><B>Governments are consistent of people not firebreathing monsters with horns that are constantly trying to stalk you !</B><P>Exactly, people. Corruptible, merely human people in a position of great power.<P><B>So you think I'am a farmed animal ??
A piece of cattle to feed the rich and powerful ?
Let me tell you,no one keeps me on a leash.
I can go where ever I want any time I want !</B><P>But the laws I must follow were written by my representative, not by a leader. I too, can go wherever I please whenever I please. It is good that you share that freedom.<P><B>I live in a free country with free people.
The only ones unfree are you !
You are tied by your own FEAR and your unwillingness to understand that brute force will get you nowhere.</B><P>I fear none, and I do not use brute force except as a last resort when all else has failed. There is no creature on this earth which will not turn at the end, and bite. Save for certain deluded humans.<P><B>Try reading Ghandi's biography and you will see what true power is.</B><P>Ghandi was very wise in using passive resistance against the British, who are a civilized people. Had he done so against the old Soviet Union, or the Chinese, he and his followers' bodies would have been quietly disposed in a pit in the ground somewhere.<P><B>Caged in empty phrases and your agression.
You are the cattle !</B><P>I have not employed aggression here, and my phrases are not empty. And cattle do not control their government, as we do.<P><B>Governments aren't afraid of people like you.
Pull the right strings and you dance like marionettes !</B><P>I do not wish governments to fear me, I wish the American government to fear the displeasure of the American people, as is their duty and has been for as long as America has existed. Yes, I follow our laws. Because I agree with most of our laws, and respect the will of my fellow citizens concerning those laws I do not like, but they do. That is how Democracy works.<P><B>You think that I should have the possibility to terrorize my government so it will do as I say ?
BWAHAHA!Sorry,I believe in diplomacy not idiocy.</B><P>The American people ARE the highest authority in the American government. Our elected officials work for us, and if our elected officials attempt to seize power away from us we must prevent their revolt by any means needed. They know this, so they generally stay reasonably honest.<P><B>I AM POWERFUL !!
Wanna know why I am powerful ?
I have the ability to trust into others.
I FEAR nothing,especially not my government.
I am never afraid to ask or demand.
I need nothing but myself to enforce my requests.
My country was always there when I needed it and it never disapointed me.
I never disapointed my country and I was always there when it needed something.
My Government SERVES ME and vice versa.
Where I come from people can rely on each other as well as them selves!
A well adjusted machine serving everyone.</B><P>Ah, you live in a land in which no imperfection mars the human spirit, where the need to watch for the failures that afflict mere humanity do not exist. How blessed you are, to have complete trust that your officials will not bargain away your freedom.
I unfortunately, live on the planet Earth.<P><B>You are right when when you say that your government should be afraid of you!!
Your government can't trust you.
And if your government is formed by people like you then you can't trust it either.
You can't rely on others and others can't rely on you !</B><P>Exactly. Unlike you, we recognize that humans are not perfect. We know that temptations can occur, corruption can seep in, and evil men can become powerful. That is why we continually watch for these failings in our elected officials, and when we find them, we do not hide them.<P><B>That is why your country has the CIA,NRA,so much gun crime,waco,ruby ridge,school bloodbaths...</B><P>That is why you know of those things. Such crimes occur throughout the world, even in your own perfect society no doubt, but only in America do we speak of our failings and move on to correct them. Our violent crime rate is lower than Great Britain's, and still dropping while theirs is rising. The violent crime rate here is lowest where the restrictions on gun ownership are least. The government sharpshooter at Ruby Ridge will soon be tried in court, and the causes behind the school shootings are already being addressed. The Waco case is still being investigated. The officials under which those incidents took place are no longer in power.<P><B>You are the problems not the solutions!
YOU ARE WEAK !<P>All mankind is weak. It is only when one admits one's weakness to oneself, that one can find true strength. As to us being the problems, what problems do you mean? We certainly cannot be a problem to you, for you do not live here. I do, and I would rather be here than anywhere else.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thank You
<B>I think you are just searching for lame excuses to justify your way of life.</B><P>Our founding fathers wrote those "lame excuses" into our constitution. It takes very little searching to find them. My way of life is to work hard and be honest.<P><B>Governments are consistent of people not firebreathing monsters with horns that are constantly trying to stalk you !</B><P>Exactly, people. Corruptible, merely human people in a position of great power.<P><B>So you think I'am a farmed animal ??
A piece of cattle to feed the rich and powerful ?
Let me tell you,no one keeps me on a leash.
I can go where ever I want any time I want !</B><P>But the laws I must follow were written by my representative, not by a leader. I too, can go wherever I please whenever I please. It is good that you share that freedom.<P><B>I live in a free country with free people.
The only ones unfree are you !
You are tied by your own FEAR and your unwillingness to understand that brute force will get you nowhere.</B><P>I fear none, and I do not use brute force except as a last resort when all else has failed. There is no creature on this earth which will not turn at the end, and bite. Save for certain deluded humans.<P><B>Try reading Ghandi's biography and you will see what true power is.</B><P>Ghandi was very wise in using passive resistance against the British, who are a civilized people. Had he done so against the old Soviet Union, or the Chinese, he and his followers' bodies would have been quietly disposed in a pit in the ground somewhere.<P><B>Caged in empty phrases and your agression.
You are the cattle !</B><P>I have not employed aggression here, and my phrases are not empty. And cattle do not control their government, as we do.<P><B>Governments aren't afraid of people like you.
Pull the right strings and you dance like marionettes !</B><P>I do not wish governments to fear me, I wish the American government to fear the displeasure of the American people, as is their duty and has been for as long as America has existed. Yes, I follow our laws. Because I agree with most of our laws, and respect the will of my fellow citizens concerning those laws I do not like, but they do. That is how Democracy works.<P><B>You think that I should have the possibility to terrorize my government so it will do as I say ?
BWAHAHA!Sorry,I believe in diplomacy not idiocy.</B><P>The American people ARE the highest authority in the American government. Our elected officials work for us, and if our elected officials attempt to seize power away from us we must prevent their revolt by any means needed. They know this, so they generally stay reasonably honest.<P><B>I AM POWERFUL !!
Wanna know why I am powerful ?
I have the ability to trust into others.
I FEAR nothing,especially not my government.
I am never afraid to ask or demand.
I need nothing but myself to enforce my requests.
My country was always there when I needed it and it never disapointed me.
I never disapointed my country and I was always there when it needed something.
My Government SERVES ME and vice versa.
Where I come from people can rely on each other as well as them selves!
A well adjusted machine serving everyone.</B><P>Ah, you live in a land in which no imperfection mars the human spirit, where the need to watch for the failures that afflict mere humanity do not exist. How blessed you are, to have complete trust that your officials will not bargain away your freedom.
I unfortunately, live on the planet Earth.<P><B>You are right when when you say that your government should be afraid of you!!
Your government can't trust you.
And if your government is formed by people like you then you can't trust it either.
You can't rely on others and others can't rely on you !</B><P>Exactly. Unlike you, we recognize that humans are not perfect. We know that temptations can occur, corruption can seep in, and evil men can become powerful. That is why we continually watch for these failings in our elected officials, and when we find them, we do not hide them.<P><B>That is why your country has the CIA,NRA,so much gun crime,waco,ruby ridge,school bloodbaths...</B><P>That is why you know of those things. Such crimes occur throughout the world, even in your own perfect society no doubt, but only in America do we speak of our failings and move on to correct them. Our violent crime rate is lower than Great Britain's, and still dropping while theirs is rising. The violent crime rate here is lowest where the restrictions on gun ownership are least. The government sharpshooter at Ruby Ridge will soon be tried in court, and the causes behind the school shootings are already being addressed. The Waco case is still being investigated. The officials under which those incidents took place are no longer in power.<P><B>You are the problems not the solutions!
YOU ARE WEAK !<P>All mankind is weak. It is only when one admits one's weakness to oneself, that one can find true strength. As to us being the problems, what problems do you mean? We certainly cannot be a problem to you, for you do not live here. I do, and I would rather be here than anywhere else.
</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thank You
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LudiNimTazral
- Regular Poster
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
To Dark Zero:<P>Americans also have an expression --
"Put your money where your mouth is."<P>What country are you from? Only then can we compare the two. Otherwise, this is just another "Did not! Did so! Did Not! Did So!" flamewar.<P>In countries that started with a revolution against a colonial power, the US has had probably the most stable government and society, without ossifying into a static neo-caste system.<P>Unfortunately, the American style of revolution was eclipsed 13 years and 10 days later by the French Revolution, which was basically "destroy everything and build our Perfect Society in the ruins, no matter how many eggs we have to smash for the Perfect Omelet" -- extending even to Khmer Rouge-type depopulation plans. (Ah, La Revolution --Half Trekkies gushing over "Founding THE FEDERATION!", half Cambodian Killing Fields.) <P>For the next 200 years, all revolutions were (more or less deliberately) patterned after the French (especially the First Russian Revolution and its imitators for the next 70 years all over the world). Only with the Warsaw Pact breakup in 1989 (and the Tienamien Square attempt around the same time) did revolutions return to the American model.
"Put your money where your mouth is."<P>What country are you from? Only then can we compare the two. Otherwise, this is just another "Did not! Did so! Did Not! Did So!" flamewar.<P>In countries that started with a revolution against a colonial power, the US has had probably the most stable government and society, without ossifying into a static neo-caste system.<P>Unfortunately, the American style of revolution was eclipsed 13 years and 10 days later by the French Revolution, which was basically "destroy everything and build our Perfect Society in the ruins, no matter how many eggs we have to smash for the Perfect Omelet" -- extending even to Khmer Rouge-type depopulation plans. (Ah, La Revolution --Half Trekkies gushing over "Founding THE FEDERATION!", half Cambodian Killing Fields.) <P>For the next 200 years, all revolutions were (more or less deliberately) patterned after the French (especially the First Russian Revolution and its imitators for the next 70 years all over the world). Only with the Warsaw Pact breakup in 1989 (and the Tienamien Square attempt around the same time) did revolutions return to the American model.
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Captain Mike
- Regular Poster
- Posts: 419
- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
- Contact:
When I read your words I see anger and pride.
Both sides declaring that theirs is the only free country. I am a Canadian mine is a quite pride. I have lived beside the "great eagle" for all my life. I have listened as you spoke about yourselves and your country. I have read the things you have written about yourselves. When I was younger I lived in Windsor right across from Detroit. And when I was younger I heard the screams of the guns and the sirens and the dying. <P>I believe in the thing that lies in the heart of the Americian constitution. That we are responsible to each other. But the US constitution was writen in a time of war and striff and its words reflect that.<P>My own was written at a time of great hope for my people. A time when though there was war it was a persons choice to either fight or to not. We took part of that with us when we wrote our constituion.<P>An Americian said that "The tree of liberty must from time to time be watered with the blood of patriots."<P>My responce is "A compassionate hand sprinkles water upon the tree each day."<P>If we share the burduns among us all they are lessened and those things that one may find unbearable maybe born by the many.<P>I do not fear my leaders. They are like me. From time to time we will make mistakes. from time to time we will fall down. But time and again we will get back up.<P>
-<a href="http://captainmike.keenspace.com">Captain Mike</a>
Both sides declaring that theirs is the only free country. I am a Canadian mine is a quite pride. I have lived beside the "great eagle" for all my life. I have listened as you spoke about yourselves and your country. I have read the things you have written about yourselves. When I was younger I lived in Windsor right across from Detroit. And when I was younger I heard the screams of the guns and the sirens and the dying. <P>I believe in the thing that lies in the heart of the Americian constitution. That we are responsible to each other. But the US constitution was writen in a time of war and striff and its words reflect that.<P>My own was written at a time of great hope for my people. A time when though there was war it was a persons choice to either fight or to not. We took part of that with us when we wrote our constituion.<P>An Americian said that "The tree of liberty must from time to time be watered with the blood of patriots."<P>My responce is "A compassionate hand sprinkles water upon the tree each day."<P>If we share the burduns among us all they are lessened and those things that one may find unbearable maybe born by the many.<P>I do not fear my leaders. They are like me. From time to time we will make mistakes. from time to time we will fall down. But time and again we will get back up.<P>
-<a href="http://captainmike.keenspace.com">Captain Mike</a>
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UncleMonty
- Cartoon Hero
- Posts: 1789
- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Captain Mike:
<B>When I read your words I see anger and pride.</B><P>Pride in one's homeland is right and proper.<P>I have only replied to Dark Zero's accusations in a very mild defense of my own homeland. I will be happy to put this battle of words aside, once I am sure no further attacks are forthcoming.<P>As to the infamous Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, I look upon it in much the same way I look upon a first-aid kit, or a fire-extinguisher. You pay for it, and you keep it ready, but you hope with all of your heart and all that you hold sacred and holy that you never, ever, have to use it.
<B>When I read your words I see anger and pride.</B><P>Pride in one's homeland is right and proper.<P>I have only replied to Dark Zero's accusations in a very mild defense of my own homeland. I will be happy to put this battle of words aside, once I am sure no further attacks are forthcoming.<P>As to the infamous Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, I look upon it in much the same way I look upon a first-aid kit, or a fire-extinguisher. You pay for it, and you keep it ready, but you hope with all of your heart and all that you hold sacred and holy that you never, ever, have to use it.
Wow, now that was a wild ride!! Never thought I'd see a conversation/argument like this on a comic strip board! Uncle Monty--all I have to say is--that was awesome. You handled whats-his-face from another country (wherever that may be since he deems it necessary not to disclose that piece of information) with alot of wisdom. I couldn't have agreed with you more, and couldn't have thought up the replies you did in a million years! I was definitely impressed with the calmness of your replies. <P>Our country has it's share of evils, but 'we the people' have the ability to decide who leads us and what we want to stand for. Not who we HAVE to stand for and what they deem correct. I am proud of my country, I'm proud that I was born here. I am ashamed that we have allowed ourselves, as well as our leaders to be morally corrupted in many ways, but we still stand for the freedom and the right to make our own choices as a nation of people. Not a dictator OVER a nation. And, I'm sorry, but it doesn't matter what kind of gun control laws you have. If someone wants to do another harm, there will always be ways of getting what they want. Look at drugs. It has been outlawed, but the easy access of it. Does anyone really think that by having a law, that will stop the crazies out there from getting their hands on a gun? I do not wish to have my right to have a weapon taken away. If someone wants to try to come into my house and do my family harm, you can bet they are going to be looking down the barrel of a gun when they come through that door, window, etc. The cops can't be everywhere. That other guy must live in a dream world to think he is safe nowadays ANYWHERE. The smallest towns have their share of evil people. Must be nice to live in Mayberry. I never have and I've lived in the country, city and everywhere in between. Now I'm sure that everything I've said will be chewed up and spit back out by someone at some point, but that's ok. I know I'm right <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">
Oh, and Dark Zero--pertaining to your first email about studying our way of life here in the states--nothing beats waiting until you are married. No excess baggage to take along with you when you meet the right one. No fears of getting some nasty disease (forget the protection, you are wasting your time if you think that'll keep you protected from ANYTHING). I'm sad that you won't experience this. It's truly worth the wait.
An honest question from someone who finds himself feeling like a six year old in a 17 year old body: What is the purpose of gun control laws except to keep the people who shouldn't own guns from getting them? There shouldn't be (under most circumstances) laws to abolish anything from all people. The only purpose of guns is the rendering of a violent end to life, but if you outlaw guns, the only people with access to them would be A. The Military since they don't abide by civil law but Military law, and B. The people who aren't law abiding, the criminals. By abolishing all of them you make marginally more difficult for the people who don't follow the law to gain access to these items while all of the law abiding citizens who would use them responsibly to defend themselves from the criminals who would have guns no matter the laws against it.<P>Before I leave you to go on with your happy lives, these two quotes:<P>"Those who are willing to trade pieces of their Liberty for safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin (Not dead on accurate, but close enough).<P>"Who says America isn't ruled by dictators? We handed Bush the presidency, allowed the irony challenged Justices to stop our votes from being counted, and we profess to, 'Not care at all,' when we are shown the evidence that Gore should have won the elections by nine out of ten vote counting systems. With this type of apathy, I'm surprised it took this long to happen." My best friend, Andy.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by IssuesMan:
<B>"Who says America isn't ruled by dictators? We handed Bush the presidency, allowed the irony challenged Justices to stop our votes from being counted, and we profess to, 'Not care at all,' when we are shown the evidence that Gore should have won the elections by nine out of ten vote counting systems. With this type of apathy, I'm surprised it took this long to happen." My best friend, Andy.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Your best friend is wrong.
The vote count was not even finished--yet the media announced first a Bush win, then a Gore win, then a Bush win again.
They counted. Bush won.
They recounted. Bush still won.
They recounted again. Bush still won, yet again.
Gore wanted another recount-- but only of *certain* counties in *certain* states... ones favorable to him.
The courts said "this is more than enough. The count stands, as is."
And Sore Loserman still whines on....
This is the behavior, not of world leaders, but of spoiled children throwing a tantrum when they come in second rather than first.<P>Now, Gore MIGHT have won if it had been a *popular* vote rather than an *electoral* vote. But it wasn't-- and never has been. And thank God for that.
The electoral college was designed as another of the balances of power-- in this case, between the densely populated urban areas-- which provide (allegedly) the entertainment, education and administration of the nation, and the sparsely populated rural areas, which provide the food, clothing and shelter-- and the stable social values-- of the nation.
I want you to picture a nation where our nation's breadbasket... the home of the farmers, miners, lumberers... essentially has no voice-- and all the nation's industrial, agricultural, environmental and social policies are decided by New York, Washington DC, Miami and LA.
Sucks, don't it.<P><P>------------------
<B>"Who says America isn't ruled by dictators? We handed Bush the presidency, allowed the irony challenged Justices to stop our votes from being counted, and we profess to, 'Not care at all,' when we are shown the evidence that Gore should have won the elections by nine out of ten vote counting systems. With this type of apathy, I'm surprised it took this long to happen." My best friend, Andy.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Your best friend is wrong.
The vote count was not even finished--yet the media announced first a Bush win, then a Gore win, then a Bush win again.
They counted. Bush won.
They recounted. Bush still won.
They recounted again. Bush still won, yet again.
Gore wanted another recount-- but only of *certain* counties in *certain* states... ones favorable to him.
The courts said "this is more than enough. The count stands, as is."
And Sore Loserman still whines on....
This is the behavior, not of world leaders, but of spoiled children throwing a tantrum when they come in second rather than first.<P>Now, Gore MIGHT have won if it had been a *popular* vote rather than an *electoral* vote. But it wasn't-- and never has been. And thank God for that.
The electoral college was designed as another of the balances of power-- in this case, between the densely populated urban areas-- which provide (allegedly) the entertainment, education and administration of the nation, and the sparsely populated rural areas, which provide the food, clothing and shelter-- and the stable social values-- of the nation.
I want you to picture a nation where our nation's breadbasket... the home of the farmers, miners, lumberers... essentially has no voice-- and all the nation's industrial, agricultural, environmental and social policies are decided by New York, Washington DC, Miami and LA.
Sucks, don't it.<P><P>------------------
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But you never answered me question mate <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif"> Then again, it really wasn't so much a question as an excuse to go and have an epiphany while hopped on pain medication since all four of my Wisdom teeth had been pulled... Hey, that might explain my stupid comments! <P>Note: This is the internet address where my friend and I got our information. If anyone could, please feel free to prove it wrong and, if you can, God bless you for clearing my misconceptions, if they do indeed exist.
<A HREF="http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Re ... 51401.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Re ... 01.html</A>
<A HREF="http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Re ... 41201.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Re ... 01.html</A>
<A HREF="http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Re ... 40901.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Re ... 01.html</A> <P>Thankyou <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">
<A HREF="http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Re ... 51401.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Re ... 01.html</A>
<A HREF="http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Re ... 41201.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Re ... 01.html</A>
<A HREF="http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Re ... 40901.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Re ... 01.html</A> <P>Thankyou <IMG SRC="http://www.keenspace.com/forums/smile.gif">
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Kanaeda Kuonji
- Regular Poster
- Posts: 129
- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
- Location: Buckhannon, WV, United States
Well, time for my 2 cents. <P>DarkZero: Do us all a favor, and stay on Mars. You claim to have a perfect government, but there's a term for it, maybe you recognize it:<P>Utopia: Greek, meaning "no world." Sure, in a perfect world, the people wouldn't need to keep their governments in check. But, guess what? It isn't perfect.<P>Case in point: Afghanistan, where the Taliban do what they please, when they please, and just run roughshod over their people, with no fear whatsoever of the consequences.<P>Not for long.<P>But, getting back to the situation, you really don't even know what you are talking about, do you? Shoot, you haven't done your homework, or even gone through the trouble of researching your arguement. <P>Now, I've declared a different kind of war. It doesn't target people, religions, or personal orientations. It targets something far more widespread. It spawned Hitler, the KKK, the terrorists, and so many hate groups.<P>It's called ignorance, and it is too widespread. <P>That is my cause, to combat the bigots, the morons, the hatebringers...my only weapon is logic. I ignore religion, I ignore race, but if it is ignorance you choose to use, you will hear from me.<P>------------------
Ok, so you are saying that ignorance is the main problem in the world. I agree, ignorance is a big one. But the ignorance leads back to one area--an area you are dismissing. 'Religion'. Now, people have done alot of nasty things in the name of religion. The problem is that people have chosen to be ignorant of the one true answer to all these problems we have here on earth. The only thing that will stop this world's problems is for us to turn our backs on sin and back to the one true God--Jesus Christ. All of us--not just the 'bad' people. Sorry if I offend anyone who does not believe that Christ is the Savior-died on the cross, rose three days later and is now in Heavan waiting for us to Accept His free gift of salvation. One day you will believe-one way or the other. Deep down we all know Who is in charge. Alot of people have it all screwed up, which is where your ignorance also plays a part--such as the Taliban where they believe that killing themselves will take them to a wonderful heavan full of virgins. Give me a break. If you don't have the true God, you don't have hope--you won't have peace. Ok, do I hear, "Holey Roller" or maybe "Jesus Freak" headed my way?? That's ok. Call it what you may. I just pray that each and every one of you that reads this takes a second look at what you are putting the blame on in this world. All the problems we are having, all the innocent people who have lost theirs lives in every country around the world due to war, terrorists or violence in one form or another all stems from people turning their backs on the one true God and doing these hateful things to innocent people. Unlike the popular belief, just believing in any God you want to-whatever suits your purposes-isn't gonna do it. Hence the Taliban. The one true God is a jealous God, He's not going to stand for our actions much longer. I'm not one of those people who says, "God let this happen to New York and Washington because of how terrible our nation has become-i.e abortions, homosexuals, pornography, etc." I believe that from the beginning, He gave ALL of us the ability to choose what we do. Whether it is to serve Him and others, or to serve ourselves. Some choose to serve themselves--and then we have things like this happen because they give their lives over to ignorance and hate. Essentially I do agree with you. It all does boil down to ignorance. But it's a chosen ignorance and unwillingness to give our lives to the one true God. And one of these days, the Lord is going to have had enough. Again, my mission is not to offend all the people out there that do not agree with me. But this is my opinion on the subject. Do with it what you will.
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Kanaeda Kuonji
- Regular Poster
- Posts: 129
- Joined: Fri Jan 01, 1999 4:00 pm
- Location: Buckhannon, WV, United States
Somehow, I knew someone would try the old religion card on me...I already thought of that.<P>I have respect for religion, but in particular, a minority in any religion. The majority of people choose religion so they can have someone to blame for their troubles...it is a rarer few each passing day that choose their doctrines because that is what they believe.<P>I view religion as a code of honor, but it is a rare few that actually live by that code. Those who do earn my undying respect.<P>In no religion I know of does the Almighty condone forcing people to accept him. The reason I am unaffiliated is simple: I believe in God, sure, but I believe because I choose to, not because someone else told me too. <P>I commend you...if what you say is true, then you live by your words...<P>Here's how I honestly view God...and a reason I am contemplating leaving the LDS church:<P>God gives you life, and Jesus saves you from your sins. What you do with your life from there is up to you.<P>Isn't that the way most Christian religions are spelled out? <P>Also, what you are dealing with is a man who perverted his belief system for his own gain. I have Muslim friends, and they all agree that Osama Bin Laden has secured his place in Hell by this act.<P>I concur with them.<P>In the war on ignorance, one must also improve himself.<P>------------------
Well, for one thing--you are in luck. You are right that God doesn't force anyone to accept Him. It's a free gift. Anyone that tries to force you to accept Him is wasting their time. It's everyone's personal choice. You gotta be willing to do it on your own, or theres no point.
As far as the blame game goes, everyone makes excuses in one form or another. You blame society's problems on ignorance. I say it's from turning away from God. Religions blame other religions, etc...
YOu are also correct, as far as that once you are saved, you choose how you are going to live your life. But, if you truly accepted Christ as your Savior by believing that Christ rose from the dead, asking Him to forgive you of the sins (that every human being is born into)and ask Him to come into your life, your choice will be to live for Him. Not to please yourself. Too many people have 'religion' but don't have the Lord. There's a BIG difference.
If you don't mind me asking, what is LDS? Not familiar with the initials.
As far as the blame game goes, everyone makes excuses in one form or another. You blame society's problems on ignorance. I say it's from turning away from God. Religions blame other religions, etc...
YOu are also correct, as far as that once you are saved, you choose how you are going to live your life. But, if you truly accepted Christ as your Savior by believing that Christ rose from the dead, asking Him to forgive you of the sins (that every human being is born into)and ask Him to come into your life, your choice will be to live for Him. Not to please yourself. Too many people have 'religion' but don't have the Lord. There's a BIG difference.
If you don't mind me asking, what is LDS? Not familiar with the initials.