sun tzu wrote:... However, just because I'm an atheist and you're a christian, it does not necessarilly mean any further debate is fruitless. For instance, I am still waiting for anyone to explain how "soul" is not actually synonimous to "mind" ...
Ok, fair enough. From my understanding we as individuals consist of three essences, body, spirit, and soul.
The body obviously is the corporeal essence. The physical blob that is typing this message. =^^=
The Spirit gives life to the body, without a spirit, the body dies.
The soul is the defining spark as to what I am. My personality and tendencies. If you look over The JAM's post you can see that God knows who I am from the moment of conception. The zygote is me at my first stage of development. Therefore, God has assigned a place for my soul. If that embryo is destroyed for whatever reason, my life is ended.
After death The spirit leaves the body and the soul goes to face judgement. The soul is immortal and does not die. It can exist independent of the body, but is incomplete without the body. On the last day we will be given new, incorruptible bodies to spend eternity in.
sun tzu wrote:
Tbolt wrote:I walked in on an English as a Second Language class, and the sight boggled me. How do you talk to someone who has no concept of what you are saying? ...
I do not think the divide is quite as large in our peculiar instance. So far, we've managed to explain our respective viewpoints reasonably well...Or at least, that was the impression that I got.
True, but the fact that our core beliefs are different does make finding common ground difficult. But you are right, we can at least expound our respective cases.
sun tzu wrote:
Tbolt wrote:..."Conception" is too simple a term for lawyers to bear. it allows no room for arguments or wrangling. ...
... But we seem to need to keep things "open" and allow loopholes for whatever agenda one desires to push. ...
Here, allow me to disagree. This isn't a matter of loopholes; rather, a matter of defining what's important and meaningfull from a moral perspective.
Sorry, perhaps I spoke in too broad terms. You do seem to be a genuine seeker of the truth, but there are those that do have a political agenda to promote on both sides of this issue, and different people have different motivations for their stance on certain issues.
The abortion industry is a multi-million dollar industry and there are those who wish to see business as usual. Some people would like to see certain races self-destruct. Convince girls to abort their children, and you don't have to deal with messy concentration camps.
Again, I do not mean to ascribe any of those motivations to you. Please forgive me if I sounded cynical.
sun tzu wrote:
Tbolt wrote:Again, I can understand and respect your points, Sun Tzu. We just come from two different perspectives. I can try explain to you the Christian concepts of body, soul, and spirit, but if you reject Christianity on principle, we are wasting our time.
I do not reject it on principle. I have seriously considered the possibility that it might be true, and have even had some doubts for a time. But until I consider it correct - which does not seem likely to happen at this point, and even less so within the limited frame of this debate - then I cannot consider it "evidence" for anything, true.
Hee, hee, which again brings us full circle;
“Spirit” and “Soul” are not scientifically definable quantities. Soul and mind sound similar, but it is impossible to prove that a soul pre-exists the body, or even post-exists it for all that matters. Here we are talking almost strictly within the realm of faith. Without agreement here, we merely end up talking past one another.
Yes we can measure brainwave activity at a certain point of a child's development, but outside of general reaction to external stimuli, we have no clue as to what is going on in the “mind” of an unborn child.
One's original DNA is established at the point of conception. That DNA will determine the size and shape of the ultimately ensuing brain that houses the mind. Therefore, that DNA has impact on the formation of the mind? And perhaps the precursor to the seat of the mind?
Hmmm, I don't think I can tack anywhere constructive from this point, as the DNA does not bear any activity associated with sentience.
Always tell the truth, that way you don't have to remember anything. -- Mark twain